Pietta J.H. Dance and Brothers .36 Project

Status
Not open for further replies.
expat_alaska

expat_alaska

Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
1,972
Location
Pe Ell WA
To begin, I would appreciate any and all comments from you folks.

I was in doubt that this would happen with the milling off of the recoil shields, but drobs provided this link:

https://steelfxpatinas.com/color-case-hardening-effect-steel/

Old South Firearms has currently a decent deal on the price of a Pietta 1851 Navy as a base pistol for this project, but it has an octagonal barrel and an engraved cylinder.

Taylor's has an Uberti Leech and Rigdon with the part octagonal/part round barrel, but with an engraved cylinder (not historically correct) for an astounding price, and I would like to stay with Pietta.

https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/han...-collection/1851-navy-steel-leech-rigdon.html

I have searched high and low for a new Pietta G&G .36 just for the plain cylinder and the part octagon/part round barrel to no avail for the past 2 years. I should have bought 2 of them in 2015 from Cabela's in hindsight. I like to mix and match Pietta 1851 Navy type parts. I have a Pietta G&G but I want this Dance .36 to stand alone, and I might not get my wish.

VTI can supply the barrel for $125 and the plain cylinder for $95, but that is just about the cost of a complete gun.

Any suggestions will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Jim
 
expat_alaska said:
To begin, I would appreciate any and all comments from you folks.

I was in doubt that this would happen with the milling off of the recoil shields, but drobs provided this link:

https://steelfxpatinas.com/color-case-hardening-effect-steel/

Old South Firearms has currently a decent deal on the price of a Pietta 1851 Navy as a base pistol for this project, but it has an octagonal barrel and an engraved cylinder.

Taylor's has an Uberti Leech and Rigdon with the part octagonal/part round barrel, but with an engraved cylinder (not historically correct) for an astounding price, and I would like to stay with Pietta ........

Jim
Click to expand...

I have an old Uberti Leech & Rigdon, and it has a plain cylinder. This from approx. 1990ish. Uberti used to make them correctly.
Guess economics gets even the best to compromise .....
 
Tommygunn said:
I have an old Uberti Leech & Rigdon, and it has a plain cylinder. This from approx.1990ish. Uberti used to make them correctly.
Guess economics gets even the best to compromise .....
Click to expand...

Even economics would say that a plain cylinder is cheaper to produce because it does not need to be roll marked.

Looking at Pietta's website, which has not been updated for at least a decade, it appears that they used to create one a long time ago. Instead, they spend their time and money on such frivolities as the 1851 Navy .36 "pepperbox" and the Dance .44 which has a larger non-rebated cylinder than the 1851 Navy .36, requiring a lowered 1851 Navy frame (no cut water-table) to accommodate it. Parts swapping is not an option. There is another guy on this forum that I have not heard from in a couple of years that owns one and he steered me away from it because of those facts. He even provided comparison pics of the Pietta Dance .44 cylinder and a standard Pietta .36 cylinder, which I wish I had saved. What an eye-opener! I wish I could remember his username. He was spot on.

Thanks for the comment.

Regards,

Jim
 
3025C25D-0861-42C4-85B9-B59869206B57.jpeg
expat_alaska said:
Even economics would say that a plain cylinder is cheaper to produce because it does not need to be roll marked.

Looking at Pietta's website, which has not been updated for at least a decade, it appears that they used to create one a long time ago. Instead, they spend their time and money on such frivolities as the 1851 Navy .36 "pepperbox" and the Dance .44 which has a larger non-rebated cylinder than the 1851 Navy .36, requiring a lowered 1851 Navy frame (no cut water-table) to accommodate it. Parts swapping is not an option. There is another guy on this forum that I have not heard from in a couple of years that owns one and he steered me away from it because of those facts. He even provided comparison pics of the Pietta Dance .44 cylinder and a standard Pietta .36 cylinder, which I wish I had saved. What an eye-opener! I wish I could remember his username. He was spot on.

Thanks for the comment.

Regards,

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim,
Here is the picture I posted of the Dance cylinder compared to an 1851 cylinder.

RC

3025C25D-0861-42C4-85B9-B59869206B57.jpeg
 
expat_alaska said:
Even economics would say that a plain cylinder is cheaper to produce because it does not need to be roll marked.

Looking at Pietta's website, which has not been updated for at least a decade, it appears that they used to create one a long time ago. Instead, they spend their time and money on such frivolities as the 1851 Navy .36 "pepperbox" and the Dance .44 which has a larger non-rebated cylinder than the 1851 Navy .36, requiring a lowered 1851 Navy frame (no cut water-table) to accommodate it. Parts swapping is not an option. There is another guy on this forum that I have not heard from in a couple of years that owns one and he steered me away from it because of those facts. He even provided comparison pics of the Pietta Dance .44 cylinder and a standard Pietta .36 cylinder, which I wish I had saved. What an eye-opener! I wish I could remember his username. He was spot on.

Thanks for the comment.

Regards,

Jim
Click to expand...

I don't think it would be very expensive to roll mark the cylinder. Probably it's just a matter of roll marking all cylinders that will be used in Colt style Navy frames and simply assembling them, some as Colt 1851s, and some on Leech & Rigdons. A easy step to omit would be the step of choosing plain vs engraved. It could be simply bureaucratic laziness? I'd hope not .... but something is being .... "saved."
And as a result, an otherwise fairly authentic Confederate revolver .... becomes just that less authentic.:(
 
EMF INC has the G&G for $235. Plain cylinder in 36 caliber. I bought one two years ago on sale. Nice shooter. Some day I'll send it to Goon.
 
I wonder if you couldn't sand the roll markings off a regular 36 navy cylinder. They are on there pretty light.
 
Jim

I admire your efforts at trying to recreate a J.H. Dance and Brothers .36 caliber revolver. Hope you can find the right barrel and cylinder combination sometime soon as I look forward to seeing the completed gun. And thanks for the Taylor's and Company link to the Pietta Leech and Rigdon model. Was thinking about asking for a Pietta Colt Model 1851 Navy for Christmas but have always had a hankering for a Leech and Rigdon! There's just something about that steel frame with the half round/half octagon barrel!
 
RCampb6131 said:
View attachment 798013 Jim,
Here is the picture I posted of the Dance cylinder compared to an 1851 cylinder.
RC
Click to expand...

RC,

I was hoping you might be lurking and I apologize for not remembering your username. Those pics are exactly what I remembered. Thank you very much for reposting them! They are a very good visual insight as to how the .44 is not even close to .36 parts.

Thanks once again!

whughett said:
EMF INC has the G&G for $235. Plain cylinder in 36 caliber. I bought one two years ago on sale. Nice shooter. Some day I'll send it to Goon.
Click to expand...

The EMF site has stated that the G&G they have listed is "temporarily out of stock" and has been for nearly 2 years. $235 is a fair price for a scarce pistol, but their shipping charges are very high even while I am located on the "left coast" north of them.

1861 said:
The real Pietta site is this: https://www.pietta.it/home-pietta-eng
Click to expand...

1861,

Thanks for the link, sir! Item #16 in the 1851 Navy section is the G&G I want (CFT36). I think I would have to contact Taylors or Old South here in the US and persuade them to order one for me and also find out if the cost is realistic.

That would solve my barrel, cylinder, load lever, latch, rammer and screws needs.

The next thing I would have to address is the additional purchase of a Pietta 1851 Navy .36 steel framed pistol. I have one but I would like to keep it as such. I could combine the brass framed pistol sans barrel assembly and cylinder with the barrel assembly and roll-marked Navy cylinder as a Schneider and Glassick pistol, but the cylinder would not be correct for a Confederate gun. I can deal with that later.

Once the Pietta 1851 Navy .36 steel is acquired, I still have to pay my machinist neighbor to mill off the recoil shields, polish the milled areas to match, and purchase the CC solution(s) to properly touch the frame up (or completely re-color the frame sides), and that will probably not be easy to do well.

This will be a spendy project and probably not be done until winter is over, but I think it will be somewhat of a unique Pietta pistol.

I wish Pietta would market one for $300+ on the US market and put me out of my misery. :)

Regards,

Jim
 
Jim

But just think about the satisfaction you will get from putting this relatively rare (and unique; one of a kind), revolver together from all those disparate parts!

It's a quest worth pursuing!
 
drobs said:
I wonder if you couldn't sand the roll markings off a regular 36 navy cylinder. They are on there pretty light.
Click to expand...

I guess I could, but I have no equipment for hot tank bluing and I don't think cold blue will work well, even if I could polish it up nicely prior to the blue. I did a lot of home gunsmithing with my Dad when I was a kid in the 1960's and it is very evident with rounded corners when someone buffs out a receiver or part. I will leave that to the professional gun refinishers, which I am not.

bannockburn said:
Jim

I admire your efforts at trying to recreate a J.H. Dance and Brothers .36 caliber revolver. Hope you can find the right barrel and cylinder combination sometime soon as I look forward to seeing the completed gun. And thanks for the Taylor's and Company link to the Pietta Leech and Rigdon model. Was thinking about asking for a Pietta Colt Model 1851 Navy for Christmas but have always had a hankering for a Leech and Rigdon! There's just something about that steel frame with the half round/half octagon barrel!
Click to expand...

bannockburn,

Thanks for the compliments and I hope your Pietta L&R comes to fruition. I have one, but only because I mix and match parts.

I am going to go off topic (as I tend to do often) for you as I admire the part octagon/part round barrel also.

My L&R:

Pietta_Leech_Rigdon.jpg

My fantasy 1851 Navy Second Model Dragoon .36:

Pietta_1851_Navy_Dragoon.jpg

If the original Dance .36 had an octagonal barrel I don't think I would be as interested.

If I live through this project I want to tackle a Tucker and Sherrard next.

Regards,

Jim
 
bannockburn said:
Jim
And thanks for the Taylor's and Company link to the Pietta Leech and Rigdon model. Was thinking about asking for a Pietta Colt Model 1851 Navy for Christmas but have always had a hankering for a Leech and Rigdon! There's just something about that steel frame with the half round/half octagon barrel!
Click to expand...

bannockburn,

I think the Taylors link I posted was for a Uberti L&R. The asking price of $374 would probably confirm that. You might want to call and confirm before ordering. I have not seen a Pietta L&R for sale new on any of the sites.

I got mine via mix and match parts.

Your call.

Jim
 
Jim

I saw this article in Guns Annual Book of Handguns (Summer, 1975 Edition), about High Standard making a "Guns of the Confederacy" series of black powder revolvers. Don't know why but for some reason I was hooked on the Leech and Rigdon after that (even though High Standard opted to give it's steel frame a matte nickel finish), and wanted to get one some day. I feel the same way about the Spiller and Burr and the Griswold and Gunnison revolvers (even though they have brass frames); just something about those Confederate handguns that I liked. So in a way I kind of get what you're trying to do with your attempt to recreate a J.H. Dance and Brothers revolver (though I would like to see you finish this one first before embarking on a Tucker and Sherrard quest)!

Dj8WrtR.jpg
 
Believe me, the Tucker and Sherrard is a long way off! Just a pipe dream for now. I think about it at night as to just how I am going to go about it. :confused:

I did not/do not like the Hi Standard BP pistols as they seem to have taken too many liberties with them in order to appease the 60's-70's crowd like my Dad to not be historical. Most of their parts were made by Uberti but with no date manufacture codes and no Italian proof marks.

I am sure they are good guns but not to my liking. Just a personal thing on my part.

Thanks for posting that, and no offense to you, but that is of the era when folks were shooting brassers with full loads and then wondering why their guns shot loose. That was over 40 years ago.

I always appreciate your input, sir!

Regards,

Jim
 
Jim, almost everything you want can be accomplished with a lot of elbow grease and some large flat files - it would take you about a week or two I believe. The cylinder, the barrel, the recoil shields - it all can be done by hand with quite satisfactory results, but it will take time. And lots of it to do it right. As for the blueing - have you considered rust blue? Brownells offers readily made solutions and while that kind of blueing is not 100% historically correct, it does look good and it's sturdy. It has that satin look, but done right it's a great finish. Wish you luck with your project and do keep us informed how it advances!

P.S. I have read some very positive reviews about Art's Belgian Blue solution - it's not an ordinary cold blue (search for the MSDS), but more like a cross between a cold blueing and hot salts blueing. And people are quite satisfied with it's appearance and durability. Here is a link for it: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1861810891/arts-belgian-blue-cold-blue-liquid
 
Jim

Thanks for posting that, and no offense to you, but that is of the era when folks were shooting brassers with full loads and then wondering why their guns shot loose. That was over 40 years ago.
Click to expand...

No offense taken! Back then (in the '70s), I was too young to buy anything (didn't have any money for guns anyways), but I loved the history that went along with black powder revolvers and spent many an hour looking through catalogs from CVA, Replica Arms, Navy Arms, and probably Dixie Gun Works and Norm Flayderman. By the time I was old enough to buy guns (and made enough money), I was more interested in rifles and shotguns for hunting and sort of lost interest in black powder guns. I have turned that situation around these days with a couple of Pietta revolvers (Remington Model 1858 NMN and a Colt Model 1860 Army), and I'm planning on adding a few more to the fold in the near future.
 
bannockburn,

I thoroughly enjoy conversing with you, but the mods may think we are off track and I don't want to get this thread locked or get off track.

I very much appreciate your input, sir!

I am done for now. Got to go eat dinner.

Jim
 
Jim

Don't think we're too off track because this is the Black Powder forum and we are talking about black powder handguns, though not always J.H. Dance and Brothers revolvers! Anyways, I always enjoy hearing about your guns and their multiple personalities (via parts swapping), and the lengths you have to go through to get the results you want.

Enjoy your dinner...Bon Appetit!
 
have you guys called or write letters to pietta to see if you can get them to make the pistols you are wanting maybe get them to make these for the market period...
 
midland man said:
have you guys called or write letters to pietta to see if you can get them to make the pistols you are wanting maybe get them to make these for the market period...
Click to expand...

I have sent at least 4 emails to Pietta concerning a Dance .36, received one reply from them stating that they would have to pass it through their marketing division, and have never heard back. I would take it that they think the market is too small for a .36 version.

Jim
 
expat_alaska said:
I have sent at least 4 emails to Pietta concerning a Dance .36, received one reply from them stating that they would have to pass it through their marketing division, and have never heard back. I would take it that they think the market is too small for a .36 version.

Jim
Click to expand...
okay have you tried ubertie maybe they would listen, just a suggestion?
 
midland man said:
okay have you tried ubertie maybe they would listen, just a suggestion?
Click to expand...

I have not tried Uberti because I want to confine my 1851 Navy .36 type pistols to Pietta for parts interchangeability. Uberti 1851 Navies are notorious for poor arbor to recess fit, are more expensive than Piettas, and I have never encountered a problem with the Piettas.

Thanks for your suggestion, sir.

Jim
 
expat_alaska said:
I have not tried Uberti because I want to confine my 1851 Navy .36 type pistols to Pietta for parts interchangeability. Uberti 1851 Navies are notorious for poor arbor to recess fit, are more expensive than Piettas, and I have never encountered a problem with the Piettas.

Thanks for your suggestion, sir.

Jim
Click to expand...

I keep hearing about Uberti short arbors.

I don't doubt that it is a true phenomenon. I have tested several of my Uberti Colt's and found that there was indeed space there, but I have some I've shot A LOT and never had a problem.
I will say I have a recently obtained 1871 Open Top, which seems to have a correct length arbor (!).....I'm not really sure what that means .... maybe I got lucky?

However, I like Pietta revolvers just fine and own many of them too. I own a Palmetto Whitney .36 revolver which works just fine, despite less than stellar wood, and some weird washers set under the nipples (apparently the holes are milled uneven so they stick washers there as buffers or seals or something) also works quite well.
 
Tommygunn said:
I keep hearing about Uberti short arbors.

I don't doubt that it is a true phenomenon. I have tested several of my Uberti Colt's and found that there was indeed space there, but I have some I've shot A LOT and never had a problem.
I will say I have a recently obtained 1871 Open Top, which seems to have a correct length arbor (!).....I'm not really sure what that means .... maybe I got lucky?

However, I like Pietta revolvers just fine and own many of them too. I own a Palmetto Whitney .36 revolver which works just fine, despite less than stellar wood, and some weird washers set under the nipples (apparently the holes are milled uneven so they stick washers there as buffers or seals or something) also works quite well.
Click to expand...

Tommy,

I am a rank noob, so don't take my word for it.

Talk to Mike

http://www.goonsgunworks.com/

for the straight skinny on this. He also creates many other improvements like a cap rake, springs, et al. I have learned a lot from his posts and talking to him on the phone. He is a very nice guy but likes to talk, and one must take in every word he says because he is not just saying things to prop up his business. I think it is kept all in his head and he knows it all by heart. A genuine good guy.

IMO, he is the last word when it comes to pretty much perfecting Italian replica 1851 Navy revolvers. He is so well known that he probably has a year or more backlog on guns folks like you and have sent to him, and his prices are very decent for the work done.

His fave guns are Dragoons with conversion cylinders, hence the name "goon".

Keep him in mind, please.

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

expat_alaska
  • Locked
Pietta 1851 Navy .36 And Confederate Cousins
2
Replies
39
Views
4K
Ephraim Kibbey
Ephraim Kibbey
expat_alaska
  • Locked
Part Round/Part Octagon Barrels
Replies
3
Views
463
TheOutlawKid
TheOutlawKid
expat_alaska
  • Locked
Pietta .44 Dance and Pietta 1851 Navy .36 Interchangeability
Replies
6
Views
2K
expat_alaska
expat_alaska
expat_alaska
  • Locked
E-mail Response From Pietta
Replies
11
Views
2K
RevolverLover
RevolverLover
expat_alaska
  • Locked
Pietta J.H. Dance and Brothers .36 Project
2
Replies
44
Views
2K
maint1517
maint1517
Back
Top