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Pietta 1851 Navy .36 And Confederate Cousins

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by expat_alaska, Oct 20, 2016.

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  1. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    My project is to use 3 Pietta 1851 Navy .36 pistols to create an 1851 Navy Second Model, an 1851 Navy Third/Fourth Model, a Leech and Rigdon, a Schneider and Glassick, and a Griswold and Gunnison, along with a fantasy 1851 Navy Dragoon, and at least 7 other fantasy pistols (your choice: mix and match parts).

    All are Italian replicas. All were bought from Cabela's on sale except for the G&G (at full price) over a 3-year period. I have ~$600 invested.

    (In advance, I apologize for the picture quality. My 10-year-old Olympus digital camera went south a few weeks ago, so these pictures are from my wife's phone camera.)

    One may notice that Pietta (before 2015) case colors the trigger; these are now blued.

    The goal, using 3 Pietta pistols, was to create them by only swapping frames, barrels, and cylinders. No screws or screwdriver involved.

    The original pistol for the project was an 1851 Navy (2014 [CM]) steel frame with a RB TG. I ordered a SB TG from Taylor's for this specific model, and while it took a bit for the total shipment of parts from Pietta to clear Customs, et al, it arrived and was installed with no fitting. Hence, an 1851 Navy Second Model. The wood is not original; rather from Ebay and is European hardwood, not walnut. It has the "tail" gripframe configuration, not to be confused with the next two pistols. Engraved cylinder.


    Pietta%201851%20Navy%20Second%20Model_zpswstsu4tl.jpg


    The 1851 Navy (2016 [CP]) steel frame Third/Fourth Model. Engraved cylinder.


    Pietta%201851%20Navy%20Third_Fourth%20Model_zpsmcehkkrv.jpg


    The Leech and Rigdon: 1851 Navy steel with the G&G barrel and plain cylinder. [CP] frame.

    Pietta%20Leech%20amp%20Rigdon_zpsmp1j7v0y.jpg


    The Schneider and Glassick: The G&G brass frame with an 1851 navy octagonal barrel and plain cylinder. [CN] frame.


    Pietta%20Schneider%20amp%20Glassick_zpsg3j0bvo4.jpg


    The Griswold and Gunnison: Brass frame and half octagonal/half round barrel, plain cylinder [CN] frame.


    Pietta%20Griswold%20amp%20Gunnison_zpsyzoxhf5x.jpg


    And my fantasy pistol: an 1851 Navy Dragoon .36. The lines are better than the octagonal barrel, and it is just purty! [CM] frame.


    Pietta%201851%20Navy%20Dragoon_zps1jqruwqk.jpg

    Well, I hope you enjoyed.

    Any critiques welcomed.

    Jim
     
  2. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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    Thanks Jim, I enjoyed looking at your creations almost as much as I imagine you did creating them!
     
  3. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    expat_alaska

    I enjoyed your "mixmaster project"! Very creative swapping of parts! Like the looks of the Leech and Rigdon best, followed by the Griswold & Gunnison and your "fantasy" 1851 Navy Dragoon .36.
     
  4. Stormson

    Stormson Member

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    Hi expat,

    Great looking set! How do they shoot?

    Can you tell a little more about
    ? How much did it cost? What had to be done to get it? I have always liked the looks of SB TG but know they are hard to get...
     
  5. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    Chuckle. I think you just like that part octagon/part round barrel !

    I am very partial to it, also.
     
  6. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    expat_alaska

    Yep there's just something about the look of the part octagon/part round barrel that catches my eye!
     
  7. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    Thanks for the compliment! Honestly, I am somewhat embarrassed to say they have never been shot, other than clearing the oil from the nipples with caps. My 64-year-old eyes are terrible and I am now more interested in collecting replicas on a small retirement budget and trying to create somewhat historically correct pistols, as far as that goes; hence 3 pistols in 3 years. I decided upon Pietta rather than Uberti because of the interchangeability of parts, and it has worked well for me.

    Well, my first Pietta 1851 Navy steel .36 was a 2014 [CM] pistol new from Cabela's on sale in December 2014. I found a SB TG at Taylor's in January 2015, but they had to order it (not in stock at Taylor's) and it had to be included in an upcoming bulk shipment from Pietta to them, and the other delay was U.S Customs, so it took about 2 months to arrive. Cost was $25 plus shipping. Pretty good, IMO.

    If Taylor's can still acquire one, be forewarned that this TG (if the same as mine) will NOT fit any Pietta 1851 Navy .36 date coded [CN] 2015 or [CP] 2016 or newer as a stand-alone part as the grip style/geometry has changed significantly from the [CM] 2014 models. If taken as a 3-piece group (backstrap, TG, and wood) either group can easily be swapped between Pietta 1851 Navy style pistols, even the .44 models, if that is your preference. You might want to email Taylor's to see if it is available. The go-to lady there was Ashley a couple of years ago.

    http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/blackpowder-revolvers/1851-1861-navy-collection.html

    Dixie Gun Works used to sell the older SB TG model Pietta 1851 Navy pistol as #RH0850, but upon my check today it seems as if it is no longer available, insofar as I can determine.

    I sincerely wish you luck in your endeavors to find a SB TG to fit your needs.

    As an adjunct, my next "project" is to acquire a Pietta J.H. Dance and Brothers in .44 and adapt it to my Pietta 1851 Navy .36 barrels and cylinders. The pistol is a rarity in that the water table is not cut/stepped and the cylinder is non-rebated. I have to think this one out thoroughly (at least one other guy has tried it with mixed results) before I spend just south of $350 for it next Fall, and maybe then do a few minor mods. It will be my most spendy C&B revolver so far, but I am licking my chops.

    http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=883

    [The proper name is James Henry Dance (not John Henry) and DGW is wrong.]

    Sorry that I am fixated upon 1851 Navy .36 style pistols, but I feel that one needs to concentrate upon a narrow field with a limited income: that's me.

    YMMV.

    Jim
     
  8. Blackpowdershooter44

    Blackpowdershooter44 Member

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    Wow, that's a really neat collection you have there!
    Is the navy in the top picture the one you just got recently?
     
  9. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    No, that is a Pietta 2014 [CM] that was the first one acquired by me in December 2014. The SB TG was acquired separately.
     
  10. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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  11. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Nice lineup!
     
  12. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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  13. elhombreconnonombre

    elhombreconnonombre Member

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    How about a fantasy brasser .44 cal 1851 Navy w/oct to Rd barrel?

    FR185115.jpg
     

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  14. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    Nice looking pistol, sir! Is it yours? Looks BNIB or a catalog pic. Although I am interested in 1851 Navy .36 repros, the only 1851 Navy style .44 I have observed with that barrel and non-rebated cylinder is the Pietta J.H. Dance and Brothers .44 pistol, and that fits well within my future endeavors. I cannot see any Pietta markings on your photo, so I would appreciate you posting the manufacturer of the barrel and cylinder. I would also appreciate a manufacturer name and date of the frame.

    If it was a .36, it would be a Pietta G&G.

    To be honest, the only reason I own a brasser is for the G&G and the S&G.

    I basically just collect to look at them and fondle them.

    Thanks in advance.

    Jim
     
  15. elhombreconnonombre

    elhombreconnonombre Member

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    Jim:

    The .44 brasser pic I posted is a Traditions FR185115 (Pietta), but the only dealer that apparently offers these is Old South Firearms. I do not own one, but have contacted OSF several times, and they have assured me this model is a .44 with non-rebated cylinder and non-rebated water table.

    I have contacted a fellow on FB that sells various metal finishes that will enable one to put a semi-durable faux CCH "steel" finish on a brass frame.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  16. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    http://www.oldsouthfirearms.com/1851coltnavyrevolver44calbrassframeroundbarrel.aspx

    I found it on OSF's site and that is not a bad price considering the barrel style (octagon/round) and the cylinder style (plain/not engraved) on an 1851 frame. Elegant! The stock website photo looks like a pre-2015 [CN] with a "tail" grip profile, so I would be curious if their stock was newer than 2014 [CM].

    As I dislike the rebated cylinder/cut water table 1851 Navy "copies", I am assuming Pietta uses that same barrel/cylinder on the Dance. Is that a stretch? If not a stretch, I would think that a .36 G&G barrel/plain cylinder should fit the Dance .44 with a minimum of work.

    https://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=883&osCsid=sq1d85l1pa2oo3hvp39b6fk6f2

    DGW seems to be a bit overpriced for what is basically an 1851 Navy with the recoil shields milled off prior to case coloring.

    Thanks for the info, sir! As always, I value your input.

    Jim
     
  17. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    As an adjunct, the replica Pietta 1851 Navy .36 Third/Fourth Model could also substitute for the original Confederate Augusta Machine Works, the Columbus Fire Works, and the George Todd revolvers, as they were copies of the 1851 Colt Navy .36 pistols, with very few variations.

    YMMV insofar as copies go.

    There was a guy on GB who was selling replica George Todd browned revolvers a while back, in .44 and .36, but I can't find them on that site today. Wanted a bunch for them.

    I guess there are some folks who like to defarb replicas in order to get a more accurate-looking "historical" representative pistol for their collection. IMO, it is still a repro and could cause a problem with authentication if put up for sale by a buyer thinking it is an original.

    I'll stick with factory repros and all the logo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  18. desidog

    desidog Member

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    I must say the side of the barrel on any Pietta would look better without their script...
     
  19. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    My take is that anyone who defarbs any repro is trying to fake an original. To me, the idea of not using a factory repro during a re-enactment is absurd.

    Thanks to EK (who showed me how to get into GB archives), this is a case in point.

    Defarbed 1851 Navy .36 replica to pass as a George Todd revolver, and according to Flayderman, only a handful are known to exist.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/576106679

    Insofar as this next one is concerned, it never happened historically, and is laughable.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/576104332

    Even though the seller specifically said it was a repro, it sold for $349! Who knows if and when it will reappear on the market a "genuine" George Todd revolver, and buyer beware.

    Remarked pistols will be the bane upon the original pistol market. It will have no impact on the replica pistol collector market.

    I just do not want to have a part in defarbing, no matter the reason.
     
  20. desidog

    desidog Member

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    expat,

    Where are you seeing it sold for 349?? I don't see any bids, and it says "this item has been relisted."

    Personally, I'm a fan of patina. Every time i see a gun on TV that is obviously Italian, like on Hell on Wheels, etc, it irks me...Some prop guy somewhere done gone and messed up!
     
  21. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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  22. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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  23. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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    Desidog - Patina on originals has developed over many years, it was not there when the cowboy plunked his hard earned cash down on the counter at the general store.

    If you like that look great, BUT.....

    The actors in Hell on Wheels do not look 150 years old so why should their guns look 150 years old?!!!

    We are meant to see the play as if we were watching it unfold in its own time with people and props appearing as they would during that time.

    The prop man is correct in issuing a new or just slightly used gun as folks took care of their tools back then.

    Now if the prop man had them carrying a Berretta 92, wielding an AK or driving a Humvee (with or without patina,) there would be a problem.
     
    Panzerschwein likes this.
  24. Berkley

    Berkley Member

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    Interesting that the bid history shows the same buyer for both. Someone with a suspicious mind might suspect a shill bidder at work.:evil:
     
  25. Blackpowdershooter44

    Blackpowdershooter44 Member

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    I like the patina look to, but it must rust easily
     
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