Declining hunter numbers in the USA...Your thoughts please.

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H&Hhunter

H&Hhunter

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Hunter numbers are declining in the USA. Hunting appears to be slowly dying on the vine. Only 5% of people over the age of 16 are actively hunting that is half of what it was 50 years ago. I’ve got several theories on the why.

1. Lack of being outdoors with kids and a complete lack of desire to be outdoors. Technology is the new recreational pursuit of most young people now days.

2. Urbanization of the populace and antihunting indoctrination.

3. Complicated draw process and slim draw odds for quality tags.

4. Over crowded public hunting areas and low success rates.

5. Lack of mentorship for new hunters.

6. Expense of private land hunting.

I realize that some of these comments are contradictory, but this is a complicated issue. What are your thoughts on this issue.


http://www.trcp.org/2017/09/07/confirmed-decline-hunter-participation-call-action-sportsmen/

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
 
1. New generations having an aversion to harvesting game.
2. New generations not being willing to spend time away from electronic distractions.
3. Older generations lacking the patience to teach the younger generations, especially given their 1. and 2.
4. Loss of heritage and the pride that comes with providing for your own needs, when grocery stores provide convenience.
5. Higher fees and less opportunity to take game (fewer tags, fewer doe days, land that was huntable is no longer).
 
here in new york the problem is we lose are land to hunt. i grew up hunting 2 beautiful farms over 100 acres over the last 6 years the owners died and there family got the land. one the family from the city got it and sod it to build houses. the other is anti gun and hunting. the other is the schools i finished in 2009. they are mostly anti gun and hunting. they put in the kids head that its bad to hunt and there i now reason to own a gun. it was quite bad when i was there even worse now. i got suspended 3 times for having gun or hunting mag in school one time for 2 weeks. but there are other reasons they dont hunt. some just don't have anyone to show them.
 
badkarmamib said:
5. Higher fees and less opportunity to take game (fewer tags, fewer doe days, land that was huntable is no longer).
Click to expand...

One of the major issues that I’ve encountered in the last ten years in my local area is a lack of access to private hunting ground. A decade ago if I asked five land owners permission to hunt deer or elk on their land I’d generally get at least one if not more folks who’d not only allow me to hunt but would be happy to have me there. As of yesterday not one single land owner I’ve spoken to, fifteen as of the last count, will allow anybody to hunt on their property. They’ve all got their land leased to outfitters. Many of those outfitters will not even hunt that particular piece of land but they keep it locked up “just in case”.

I used to be an outfitter, we hunted on public land, wilderness areas most often. These guys locking up all the private land are a PITA. At the same time I can’t blame the land owner for trying to make a buck. But it is having a massively negative affect on hunters in general. Unless you’ve got the big bucks to hire an outfitter and do a guided hunt. A mule deer hunt goes from between $5,000 and (yes you’re reading this right) $15,000 in this area for a guided hunt. That puts me entirely out of the picture in my local area.
 
In addition to all of the above being said, add to that a generation of young people that have no idea where meat comes from... A dying/dead or killed animal is a different experience entirely that a cooked burger at a fast food joint.


Over regulation and complicated regulations discourages hunters.
One situation that I can see impacting hunter numbers in Wisconsin, is their CWD solutions.

This applies to 55 of 72 counties.

It is illegal to:


• transport whole deer carcasses and certain parts of those carcasses harvested in a CWD-affected county to any area outside of the CWD-affected county of harvest, unless these deer carcasses or parts are transported to a licensed taxidermist or licensed meat processor within 72 hours of the deer leaving the county of harvest. This restriction applies to all CWD-affected counties, even where a baiting and feeding ban is no longer in effect. Visit dnr.wi.gov and search "CWD" for a map of CWD-affected counties.

• transport carcasses or certain parts of cervids (all deer species, caribou, elk and moose) from other states or provinces that have CWD into any part of Wisconsin, unless they are taken to a licensed meat processor or licensed taxidermist within 72 hours of entering the state. Hunters doing so must possess and exhibit to wardens, upon request, documentation of the state or province in which the carcass was harvested.


The following list specifies the only parts of wild deer harvested in a CWD-affected county that may be transported beyond the CWD-affected county of harvest without being taken to a licensed taxidermist or meat processor. This list also applies to any species of wild deer, caribou, elk or moose transported into Wisconsin from other states and provinces that have CWD:

• *NEW* the head if taken directly to an approved CWD sampling site or kiosk (only for white-tailed deer harvested in Wisconsin)


• meat that is cut and wrapped (either commercially or privately);

• quarters (including leg bones) or other portions of meat to which no part of the spinal column is attached;

• meat that has been deboned;

• hides with no heads attached, finished taxidermy heads, antlers;

• clean skulls or skull plates with no lymphoid or brain tissue attached;

• upper canine teeth (also known as buglers, whistlers or ivories).


Whole carcasses that are delivered to a licensed meat processor or licensed taxidermist within 72 hours of leaving the county of harvest or entering the state may be transported from an area with CWD. The processor or taxidermist must be told that the animal came from the CWD-affected county or a state with CWD. They must dispose of parts not exempt from the transportation restrictions (above) in a landfill .
o_O
 
A lot of Public land hunting has become terrible. Many areas have been hit hard with over exposure from too many hunters. Too many small bucks taken. Most of these guys will kill anything that walks if it is legal. Too many does taken. Herds statewide has dwindled in many areas. I hunt mostly on Military Bases that have much better game mgt. and limit number of hunters into a area. I hunted some Public areas last year that requirement was to have a Buck with a min, of three points on one side as they were trying to establish bigger Bucks. Problem was, that the area had been hit by so many hunters that they seem to have wiped out the entire population. Never I have seen such a lack of deer sign. In many area's hunters are begging Game commision to stop killing does and small Bucks.
There also have been a uprising of Coyotes, Number of deer and fawn kills are hard to determine but the state has recognized the problem.We also had a Bad influx of Wasting Disease that hurt the state herd.

And add this to your list TICKS, TICKS TICKS. HUNTERS BEWARE!! Lyme disease has been on the rise and it will KILL you. Last year, I prepared for Tick with OCD Control. Went out on a Sat. next morning came home and one embedded in my neck. I went to the emergency room. They had to cut it out. The Doctor was well versed in Lyme Disease and told me it was very smart to have come in. She told me that it is of the utmost importance to come in withing 24 hours. I was given a Vaccine and now hesitant to go back into the woods.
I have a friend that lives nearby. Young Beautiful woman at the time full of life. Now after a tick infection, has extreme Neurological damage and has been confined to a wheel chair for years. Just know the facts and exercise extreme caution.
 
Online video games. Kids don't get out and play like they used to, they go inside and play on the computer. From what I have heard, kid participation is declining in all physical sports and activities. From what I have seen in the shooting sports, I believe it.

And add this to your list TICKS, TICKS TICKS. HUNTERS BEWARE!! Lyme disease has been on the rise and it will KILL you. Last year, I prepared for Tick with OCD Control. Went out on a Sat. next morning came home and one embedded in my neck. I went to the emergency room. They had to cut it out. The Doctor was well versed in Lyme Disease and told me it was very smart to have come in. She told me that it is of the utmost importance to come in withing 24 hours. I was given a Vaccine and now hesitant to go back into the woods.
Click to expand...

A bud of mine was dead three days after a tick bite. He was too late to the Hospital. I went to the range and came back with a spider and tick bite that kept me in my bed for two days.
 
I see two sides to this. First the good. I think this is a great time to be a hunter in the US because we have more game available than ever in the past century and modern technology makes us more effective hunters because we have better equipment like GPS, satellite maps, great portable stands ect...

Now the bad side is that public hunting lands in some parts of the country are shrinking and many landowners are restricting access to their land to hunt which is a real problem facing young people getting into hunting. Hunting tags are also crazy expensive for non resident tags and larger game like elk and moose.

Here is how I see it at least in my specific location. This may not apply at all where you live.

I live in basically north central minnesota on the boundry between where the state turns from agricultural land with small stands of timber and sloughs, to the north country where there are vast stands of state and national forests with logging road access. Where there is agriculture in the state game is unbelievably abundant, there is probably 50 deer per square mile, but land plots are small and hunter density is very very high. Up north the game is much less dense but there is also mile after mile and mile of forest with not that many people hunting it, so there is opportunity for both. When I was younger I started out bow hunting small wildlife reserves in agricultural land and I also bow hunted a few private parcels where I had asked farmers for access and didn't usually have much trouble getting permission. Firearms season is tougher because all the hunters come out of the woodwork and people are reluctant to let you firearms hunt on private land because they are usually hunting it too and many have had bad experiences letting people off the street hunt. I have 25 acres of my own land and my father in law has a 240 acre farm so I am well set on hunting land now.

About the game. Mabey this is not applicable in this part of the country but this is how it is where I live. My father in law kept notes about hunting all the way back to like '72. Back in those days game had almost been eradicated in this part of the country. Farmers in the early 1900's shot deer on sight both for food and to protect their agriculture. In the 70's in minnesota they would have 1 day seasons, 2 day seasons, mabey 2 weekends at the most. They would have 10 hunters on the farm and some years would only take a single deer. So compared to those times we are in an absolute garden of eden of game and we should be thankful for it. One area though where the reverse is true is waterfowl hunting. When I was a kid we duck hunted all fall and put a lot of meat on the table. Today the waterfowl flocks are a small fraction of what used to come through here. We have decent amounts of pheasant, grouse, and a new game species in my lifetime, sandhill cranes. We do not have wild pigs this far north but for you guys in the south, that is an awesome hunting opportunity.

Now this is what I have to say about people that complain there is nowhere to hunt. That is poppycock. There are lots of places to hunt, it just might not be convenient or free. Few things in life worth doing are easy or free. I own my own land but I have also hunted more than my own share of public land too. There are millions and millions of acres of huntable public land in this country. If its crowded you didn't drive far enough or hike far enough in. If that is a problem for you then perhaps you need to seek out access to private land or buy your own. Go talk to farmers and landowners and ask what you can do for them to earn the privilege of using their land, and I don't necessarily mean money. I am a landowner, I worked for it, I paid for it, I pay taxes on it, I take care of it, its my home. If you come and ask me if you can put up a portable stand a week before rifle season on my property I will tell you no, just the same as if a stranger walked up to me and asked to borrow my truck. Now if you come to me in the summer and say I'm looking for a place to hunt and I would like to trade some work or something now we can talk. How about you offer to come up a weekend or two in the fall and help me cut firewood? Mabey help me for a day working on my shed? Mabey offer to drop off some garden goods? Now we can talk. Now you showed me that you value having access and I'll help you with what you need. If that isn't good enough for you perhaps you need to buy your own piece of land to hunt on. I don't know what the situation is like in other parts of the country but $10K-$15K will buy you a hunting parcel here. If all of the above is too difficult perhaps you better just golf.
 
Slamfire said:
Online video games. Kids don't get out and play like they used to, they go inside and play on the computer. From what I have heard, kid participation is declining in all physical sports and activities. From what I have seen in the shooting sports, I believe it.



A bud of mine was dead three days after a tick bite. He was too late to the Hospital. I went to the range and came back with a spider and tick bite that kept me in my bed for two days.
Click to expand...

THIS- in addition to the reasons the OP stated. In a word, computers, i phones, and the like. Most kids would rather play a stupid game on a screen than actually hunt, shoot, or even play a sport "for real"- all while posting their lives on the book of faces. I find this both disturbing and disgusting. Sat night my wife and I went to a rodeo- a millenium couple sitting a few rows down from us spent most of the event playing with their phones and doing selfies with one of those stupid sticks. How many of these kids know how to change the oil in their own vehicle, or change a spark plug on a lawn mower? Or make a simple project out of plywood? Most of them would be lucky to get through it without losing a finger or causing some other accident. Last month I had to pull one of them out of a drainage ditch he thought he could get through in a prius. What is really sad is that most of this information is accessible on youtube, but these dummies use that website to look at people doing the same stupid stuff they already do. Remember, we are talking about a generation who thought it would be cool to eat detergent pods.
 
I personally don't think hunting as a sport is in decline. Its the number of people willing to do it is whats in decline. We will always have hunters and hunting. Its of little to no interest to me what percentage of people are willing to put forth the effort to hunt, I and people like me always have and always will.
 
Jeb Stuart said:
50 deer per sq mile? Holy Moses! How the heck can they maintain a area like that? Even Virginia that has had a good healthy population in past years and about 6 per sq mi in high populations.
Click to expand...

Thats not representative of the entire state but I know its higher than that in some spots. My father in laws farm is .375 square miles and we harvest on average about 12-15 deer off of that a year, and that's being selective about what we shoot. Doesn't even dent the population and everyone around is doing the same year after year. My father in law only rasies a few head of cattle and puts up hay, but there is lots of corn, beans, potato's ect... within a mile or two. This spring I counted 126 deer eating left over corn off the ground in a 70 acre field about a mile from where we hunt. In the fall they come up in the yard at my place every day to eat acorns.
 
About 5-8 years ago there was a big dip in the population after they reintroduced wolves and mountain lion, and they reduced the bag limit from intensive harvest which is 5 deer, down to only one buck and one doe. I think we even had a 1 deer season for two years which was tough on the freezer. Now we are back to 3 deer and the predator problem has stabilized.
 
Children are as their parents make them. Kids today hunt less because their parents hunt less than the generation before them, and those less than the generation before that.

What IS compelling is the increase in firearms ownership by the younger generation. A greater number of 20 & 30 something’s own firearms than their parents in their 50’s and 60’s.
 
someguy2800 said:
I personally don't think hunting as a sport is in decline. Its the number of people willing to do it is whats in decline. We will always have hunters and hunting. Its of little to no interest to me what percentage of people are willing to put forth the effort to hunt, I and people like me always have and always will.
Click to expand...

Hmmm? I’m trying to figure out your logic here. If the number of hunters are in decline then the activity is in decline. What am I missing?
 
H&Hhunter said:
Hunter numbers are declining in the USA. Hunting appears to be slowly dying on the vine. Only 5% of people over the age of 16 are actively hunting that is half of what it was 50 years ago. I’ve got several theories on the why.

1. Lack of being outdoors with kids and a complete lack of desire to be outdoors. Technology is the new recreational pursuit of most young people now days.

2. Urbanization of the populace and antihunting indoctrination.

3. Complicated draw process and slim draw odds for quality tags.

4. Over crowded public hunting areas and low success rates.

5. Lack of mentorship for new hunters.

6. Expense of private land hunting.

I realize that some of these comments are contradictory, but this is a complicated issue. What are your thoughts on this issue.


http://www.trcp.org/2017/09/07/confirmed-decline-hunter-participation-call-action-sportsmen/

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Click to expand...
I hunt so maybe I'm not the best person to ask why people aren't hunting. But my thoughts:

1) True in urban areas, but not elsewhere in my experience.
2) Probably. Never lived in the big city myself so I can't say. I do find a lot of suburban people curious about it or looking for someone to get them started. I also meet people who are profoundly clueless about guns and hunting - like they see me carrying a cased rifle, and ask what's in the case because they've never seen one before.
3) The OTC hunts here are OK, and I could definitely pull more tags than I have time to hunt, including what I would think of as "quality" tags like cow bison.
4) I suppose, but this heads towards my quip in the previous thread about "No one goes there - it's too crowded." I think some areas are crowded, but far from everything. There's 800 unused bear tags in the Grand Mesa area every year if you want a slam dunk hunt.
5) Definitely.
6) Comparing trespass fees to price of meat around here, it's pretty cheap. Hiring a team of horses to haul an elk out of the back country is more expensive. But my perspective is probably shaped by being fairly well to do - enough money, but not enough time.

I think what's more likely behind the decline is a fall off in meat hunting on rural private property. The grocery store is pretty competitive when you get right down to it and I can't shoot rabbits in the suburbs (more's the pity). There's no shortage of elk hunters certainly.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Hmmm? I’m trying to figure out your logic here. If the number of hunters are in decline then the activity is in decline. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
It's possible only certain segments (and not very visible ones) are in decline. For example, I'm going to bet that fewer possums are being et these days. That's a decline in hunting, but it's not necessarily driven by a decline in interest in hunting so much as a decline in rural poverty.

I think deer and elk are still heavily hunted everywhere. Bear has fallen off some, but is hard to deal with and get it to taste good. Hogs have gone WAY up.
 
someguy2800 said:
I see two sides to this. First the good. I think this is a great time to be a hunter in the US because we have more game available than ever in the past century and modern technology makes us more effective hunters because we have better equipment like GPS, satellite maps, great portable stands ect...

Now the bad side is that public hunting lands in some parts of the country are shrinking and many landowners are restricting access to their land to hunt which is a real problem facing young people getting into hunting. Hunting tags are also crazy expensive for non resident tags and larger game like elk and moose.

Here is how I see it at least in my specific location. This may not apply at all where you live.

I live in basically north central minnesota on the boundry between where the state turns from agricultural land with small stands of timber and sloughs, to the north country where there are vast stands of state and national forests with logging road access. Where there is agriculture in the state game is unbelievably abundant, there is probably 50 deer per square mile, but land plots are small and hunter density is very very high. Up north the game is much less dense but there is also mile after mile and mile of forest with not that many people hunting it, so there is opportunity for both. When I was younger I started out bow hunting small wildlife reserves in agricultural land and I also bow hunted a few private parcels where I had asked farmers for access and didn't usually have much trouble getting permission. Firearms season is tougher because all the hunters come out of the woodwork and people are reluctant to let you firearms hunt on private land because they are usually hunting it too and many have had bad experiences letting people off the street hunt. I have 25 acres of my own land and my father in law has a 240 acre farm so I am well set on hunting land now.

About the game. Mabey this is not applicable in this part of the country but this is how it is where I live. My father in law kept notes about hunting all the way back to like '72. Back in those days game had almost been eradicated in this part of the country. Farmers in the early 1900's shot deer on sight both for food and to protect their agriculture. In the 70's in minnesota they would have 1 day seasons, 2 day seasons, mabey 2 weekends at the most. They would have 10 hunters on the farm and some years would only take a single deer. So compared to those times we are in an absolute garden of eden of game and we should be thankful for it. One area though where the reverse is true is waterfowl hunting. When I was a kid we duck hunted all fall and put a lot of meat on the table. Today the waterfowl flocks are a small fraction of what used to come through here. We have decent amounts of pheasant, grouse, and a new game species in my lifetime, sandhill cranes. We do not have wild pigs this far north but for you guys in the south, that is an awesome hunting opportunity.

Now this is what I have to say about people that complain there is nowhere to hunt. That is poppycock. There are lots of places to hunt, it just might not be convenient or free. Few things in life worth doing are easy or free. I own my own land but I have also hunted more than my own share of public land too. There are millions and millions of acres of huntable public land in this country. If its crowded you didn't drive far enough or hike far enough in. If that is a problem for you then perhaps you need to seek out access to private land or buy your own. Go talk to farmers and landowners and ask what you can do for them to earn the privilege of using their land, and I don't necessarily mean money. I am a landowner, I worked for it, I paid for it, I pay taxes on it, I take care of it, its my home. If you come and ask me if you can put up a portable stand a week before rifle season on my property I will tell you no, just the same as if a stranger walked up to me and asked to borrow my truck. Now if you come to me in the summer and say I'm looking for a place to hunt and I would like to trade some work or something now we can talk. How about you offer to come up a weekend or two in the fall and help me cut firewood? Mabey help me for a day working on my shed? Mabey offer to drop off some garden goods? Now we can talk. Now you showed me that you value having access and I'll help you with what you need. If that isn't good enough for you perhaps you need to buy your own piece of land to hunt on. I don't know what the situation is like in other parts of the country but $10K-$15K will buy you a hunting parcel here. If all of the above is too difficult perhaps you better just golf.
Click to expand...

I am the original steep and deep get back there hunter. I’ll climb or descend thousands of feet and travel miles to get away from the crowds. I do it every year on public land. The issue in my area as mentioned above is the hostile take over of private land by high dollar outfitters.

Here is another issue I’m starting to see more and more of. Every jack wagon with a video camera can have a hunting show. I say knock yourselves out, good on you. However if you are going to film on public land DO NOT expect me to vacate the area because you think you are a celebrity. I’ve had that happen twice now. In fact I got as close to mashing a guys face as I have in a longtime a couple of years ago. He ordered me not to hunt a section of public ground that my daughter had been scouting and hunting all season so that his low rent country music star “hunter” could be filmed shooting a big buck that was in that area.

Needless to say I probably won’t be getting invited to that low rent CM singers concerts anytime soon.
 
Llama Bob said:
It's possible only certain segments (and not very visible ones) are in decline. For example, I'm going to bet that fewer possums are being et these days. That's a decline in hunting, but it's not necessarily driven by a decline in interest in hunting so much as a decline in rural poverty.

I think deer and elk are still heavily hunted everywhere. Bear has fallen off some, but is hard to deal with and get it to taste good. Hogs have gone WAY up.
Click to expand...

Point taken but if you click on the links provided you’ll see that hunter numbers in general are in a state if decline. No doubt certain segments are not.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Hmmm? I’m trying to figure out your logic here. If the number of hunters are in decline then the activity is in decline. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

What I mean is that I think people still have good access to hunting and the chances of having a successful hunt are excellent. So people may be choosing not to hunt, but the opportunity for those that do are good and I don’t see them declining, at least where I live. If anything the reduction of hunters will improve the quality of the opportunity’s.

The big problem I see in reduced hunter participation is that means less people lobbying for hunter rights and less conservation dollars via tag sales. If not for how badly we need the conservation dollars and political support though I’d say I don’t care if people from the city can’t be bothered to go shoot their food. Just makes the hunting better for me and mine.

I want to be cognizant that there are kids reading this who want to get into hunting so we should not discourage them by saying it’s impossible to get into it. Rather we need to address the challenges and offer advice on where and how to find hunting opportunities.
 
Last edited:
someguy2800 said:
What I mean is that I think people still have good access to hunting and the chances of having a successful hunt are excellent. So people may be choosing not to hunt, but the opportunity for those that do are good and I don’t see them declining, at least where I live. If anything the reduction of hunters will improve the quality of the opportunity’s.

The big problem I see in reduced hunter participation is that means less people lobbying for hunter rights and less conservation dollars via tag sales. If not for how badly we need the conservation dollars and political support though I’d say I don’t care if people from the city can’t be bothered to go shoot their food. Just makes the hunting better for me and mine.

I want to be cognizant that there are kids reading this who want to get into hunting so we should not discourage them by saying it’s impossible to get into it. Rather we need to address the challenges and offer advice on where and how to find hunting opportunities.
Click to expand...

Excellent points sir!
 
H&Hhunter said:
6. Expense of private land hunting.
Click to expand...

Land cost aside, the lack of availability is driving an increase in cost. In the states I hunt just getting on a lease is tough. Being on a waiting list means waiting for someone to die so you can move up to 16th place. After awhile people just give up. I have to drive 6 hours to where I hunt because everything near me is leased up.
 
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