Declining hunter numbers in the USA...Your thoughts please.

H&Hhunter said:

Thanks for that insight. I actually know very little about European hunting opportunities. I have German realatives and I do know that in Germany there are some very good hunting opportunities. But it is a massive undertaking to get licensed as a hunter in that country.

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From Wikipedia on how to get a German hunting license:

"Applicants must fulfill the following requirements:

• Successful completion of a hunting exam,
• Certificate of a liability insurance for hunters,
• Personal trustworthiness (§ 5 German Weapons Act),
• Applicants must be at least 16 years for a Youth Hunting License, otherwise 18 years,
• Flawless Criminal record.

The hunting exam is a test of expertise with a high failure rate."


No thanks.

Paul7 said:

Some of us don't get terribly excited about a canned hunt on farm raised birds.



Scandinavia might be different, but for most of Europe I call bunk on your post. According to this article, the AVERAGE European hunter spends $30,000 a year to hunt, compared to a US hunter figure of $2,500, and only 1% of Europeans hunt due to the expense and regulations: https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/hunting-europe-white-collar/

Also see: https://iuwest.wordpress.com/2017/10/20/hunting-in-europe-a-rich-mans-sport/

My dad once had a great hunting trip while on a business trip in Italy, but it was on his business associate's 25K acre private estate, not somewhere anyone could hunt on. The US National Forest Service alone, not counting BLM lands, has 193,000,000 acres.

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So you post a link to IWA a trade show. You need to look at the Dortmund Jagd und Hund show, a show that takes 2 days to look at properly. Or how about the French game fair or one of the several English game fairs. All these hunting shows attract tens of thousand of the great unwashed every year.
If you think driven pheasant shooting is canned then your wrong. I've read so much twaddle written about Guns and hunting in Europe by people who are totally clueless about the subject. To much of , a man down the pub told me, so it must be true.
I'm a ordinary work man who left school at 15 and have been hunting since i was 16. I'm still hunting and have hunted in many places in Europe from ,Portugal, Croatia, Hungary, Denmark, England and Scotland plus i own my hunting ground here in Sweden. None of those trips have ever cost me a mass of money. I'm off to England in 6 weeks for hunting that will cost me nothing apart from a few beers. After 55 years of hunting in England and Europe I may just know what I'm talking about.

Skoghund said:

So you post a link to IWA a trade show. You need to look at the Dortmund Jagd und Hund show, a show that takes 2 days to look at properly. Or how about the French game fair or one of the several English game fairs. All these hunting shows attract tens of thousand of the great unwashed every year.

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About 1% of Europeans hunt compared to much more here, probably because they have to spend ten times as much.

If you think driven pheasant shooting is canned then your wrong. I've read so much twaddle written about Guns and hunting in Europe by people who are totally clueless about the subject. To much of , a man down the pub told me, so it must be true.

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I've participated in driven hunts, and prefer hunting wild birds with a dog as done in Iowa and the Dakotas.

I'm a ordinary work man who left school at 15 and have been hunting since i was 16. I'm still hunting and have hunted in many places in Europe from ,Portugal, Croatia, Hungary, Denmark, England and Scotland plus i own my hunting ground here in Sweden. None of those trips have ever cost me a mass of money. I'm off to England in 6 weeks for hunting that will cost me nothing apart from a few beers. After 55 years of hunting in England and Europe I may just know what I'm talking about.

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OK, you're right and everyone else is wrong. What did you do with the 45 deer you shot in one year? That sounds like a cull, not a hunt.

since the op was asking for thoughts ill give a few.

I for one, and I know its not right to do this. I kind of like the number of hunters declining.

I don't have trespassers molesting my hunt. I can pick and choose what deer I shoot as they will prob still be there tomorrow.

the old guys that used to hunt illegally with dogs have all died out. the dogs never really bothered me, they tended to move more deer towards me than away.

we now have some nice trophy deer here since every thing with a antler is not shot opening day. im not really a horn hunter but I really don't mind killing a big mature buck.

I would love to take a young person hunting just as I did my kids. but I don't have any grandchildren. my girlfriend has kids and grandkids but they are town folk and not interested in hunting.

its not uncommon now to see more than a dozen deer a day in my area during hunting season. last year I saw nice bucks almost every time I went out.

they were very symmetrical and had lots of potential. I let them walk and shot a large buck that had really messed up small horns I think due to a injury. I am looking forward to seeing those bucks again. this year and maybe next year.

most of the hunters here now are adult males that own property. or their fathers and grandfathers own property. all are very respectfull of others rights.

so by and large the decline of hunting has done nothing but make my hunting better.

again I know that's not a good attitude to have. and its not good for the future of hunting.

but there is nothing I can really do about it.

^ as a landowner I get where you’re coming from, the 70’s was the time of poaching and trespassing, the 90’s was a neighbor who would invite 15 guys to hunt his 20 acres.

since he moved out its been quiet just my Son, myself and a guy I let come out for muzzle loader.

MCgunner said:

Yeah, it's been mentioned, but our educational system and the commies that run it have turned out a generation of urban snowflake.

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Armored farmer said:

Oh yes!
Its snowing snowflakes.
Our televisions, movies, and media are churning them out.
I had written paragraphs about the current young generation over my lunch hour, but in the interest of keeping it 'high road'.....i leave it at this.

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ACES&8S said:

Social media is making a weak generation, wish we could turn it off at least 8 hours a day so the kids
would have t find a real world with real friends & real adventures with memories that would last a lifetime.

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Jeb Stuart said:

People want to spend more time on the sofa playing the sickening video games. Especially the violent games where they just go on and on killing and killing for hours. Do you really think snowflakes would actually have the patience required to hunt? How could they possibly even see a deer 5' in front of them with a cell phone in their face. For God sake, they cannot even walk without one.

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Well gosh, with a welcome mat like that laid out for them I simply can't fathom why young people aren't stampeding to hunting camps to learn the wisdom of their elders.
Maybe they manage to get enough time with bitter old men at work?

b0ned0me said:

Well gosh, with a welcome mat like that laid out for them I simply can't fathom why young people aren't stampeding to hunting camps to learn the wisdom of their elders.
Maybe they manage to get enough time with bitter old men at work?

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Ain't me! I stopped working 7 years ago. I got better things to do with my time now days.

b0ned0me said:

Well gosh, with a welcome mat like that laid out for them I simply can't fathom why young people aren't stampeding to hunting camps to learn the wisdom of their elders.
Maybe they manage to get enough time with bitter old men at work?

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.......at least im in good company.

One major factor is supply and demand. When I was a kid in the late 50s and early 60s, my home area of NE Kansas was thick with quail. Prairie chickens could be found in numerous flocks of 100 or more. A drive to western Kansas and pheasants were everywhere. Hunters lined the roads. Rabbits were everywhere and we kids hunted them with single shot 22s and single shot 410s. Now quail are very hard to find, rabbits are only in my wife's flowers, and no one hunts prairie chickens because they are almost impossible to find. Pheasant hunters go to South Dakota where they actually have pheasants. As some have said. public land is overrun; again supply and demand. My brother, once an avid hunter, moved to Minnesota but doesn't hunt any more due to the intense competition for good hunting land. Can't tell you how often I hear people say, "I don't hunt any more because I don't have any place to hunt."

^^^
Yep, that is, unfortunately, what's been going on. Farmland surrounds my place but the farmers are reluctant to allow just "anybody" access to their land. Factor in a local Outfitter who's leased up some places and the acreage availability diminishes. Public hunting land in Ks. is limited to areas around the reservoirs and a few patches of walk in hunting land leased by the state.

Yes you are in good company.
I guess if you come across with the truth now a days it makes us bitter about something.

ACES&8S said:

Yes you are in good company.
I guess if you come across with the truth now a days it makes us bitter about something.

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The problem is that it's not the whole truth. It's partial.

Every generation thinks the next one is soft, weak, reckless and destined to fail. The younger thinks the older is hard-headed and slow. It has been ever thus. Both are somewhat correct and somewhat incorrect and generally unreasonable about their differences. Then everyone gets old and set in their ways and left behind.

The younger generation is going to do great things and also have failures and make messes. Just like yours did. You can apply this to hunting. The new generations have brought us laser rangefinders, incredible optics, unparalleled technological advances in compound bows and archery, warmer and lighter clothes, and the ability to never get lost with GPS and maps. The most dedicated hunter I know is a few years my junior. He's a millennial. He'd hunt circles around most of the geezers I know and not just because he's younger. His ambition and drive are outstanding. Maybe he sends emails and texts when the action is slow and maybe so do I, but when he texted me yesterday from his archery OTC hunt in Oregon "man that bull was screaming right in my face," I got goosebumps because I know what that's like and what I love about it. He loves it for all the reasons you do, and all the reasons I do, and the love of the hunt is the same in all of us. It's also different.

Land access isn’t a problem here in Arizona with all our national forests but it seems like each year the cost of a license and/or game tags goes up. Some of the license and tag fees for big game like elk are ridiculous, especially for non-residents.

Resident elk tags are $148 and non-resident tags are $665. Even deer tags have increased to $58 for residents and $315 for non-residents. Add to that the $37 resident license fee or $160 for a non-resident license. That’s quite a fee for someone who wants to shoot one of these 80 lb Coues deer to pay.

I not only object to these high prices to enjoy our natural resources but, in my opinion, they sell too many tags for most hunts so you spend much of your time trying to avoid the crowds of other hunters which not only takes away from the hunt experience, it lessens your chance for a successful hunt.

Also, the millennial hunters and younger seem to balk at putting any effort into a hunt. For example, last year two younger friends asked if I would show them how to hunt deer. They were both quite excited when I agreed to put in a hunt application with them.
However, the excitement waned when they discovered that not only would they have to be in the field before sunrise, they wouldn’t be able to sit around in folding chairs sipping their favorite beverages while they waited for a nice buck to present itself to them to be shot.
Faced with these hard facts, they both decided deer hunting was too much trouble and opted to stay at home instead.

I’m sure there are other reasons for the decline in hunter numbers but these are two that I see.

As a young man I lived in Northern California, over half of the land near me was national or state forest. It was easy to go hunting. At the High School I, and both of my daughters, went to, there are required classes (it is part of the PE program, and yes, parents can opt their children out of that portion of the class; but few ever do)) that addresses hunter safety and responsibilities. In those classes the students are told where to go, and what to expect in the locations.

I have now moved to a different area. The reality is that no, I have no idea where to go.

most of the hunters here now are adult males that own property. or their fathers and grandfathers own property. all are very respectfull of others rights.

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That's great; but consider the corollary of your statement, "people that do not own [large sections of rural] property don't hunt." You may, or may not, consider that to be a good thing; but no matter, it is going to lead to a lot less hunters.

Bottom Gun said:

Land access isn’t a problem here in Arizona with all our national forests but it seems like each year the cost of a license and/or game tags goes up. Some of the license and tag fees for big game like elk are ridiculous, especially for non-residents.

Resident elk tags are $148 and non-resident tags are $665. Even deer tags have increased to $58 for residents and $315 for non-residents. Add to that the $37 resident license fee or $160 for a non-resident license. That’s quite a fee for someone who wants to shoot one of these 80 lb Coues deer to pay.

I not only object to these high prices to enjoy our natural resources but, in my opinion, they sell too many tags for most hunts so you spend much of your time trying to avoid the crowds of other hunters which not only takes away from the hunt experience, it lessens your chance for a successful hunt.

.

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I'm in complete support of it. It's hard enough for us residents to get tags, let alone good hunts. Other side of it is funding for AZGFD and game mgmt is good. Capping non-resident tags at 10% and jacking up the fee for nonresidents is genius. It only takes a few tags away from us and allows a big influx of money. Let them foot part of the bill. We have more hunters than animals, why would we give them an equal share of our game and also sacrifice our own ability to draw tags while we pay the taxes all year long to support it??

When I go out of state to hunt I agree to pay their fees or don't go. Different ecosystems and economies support different rates and bag limits. Ours is limited.


I don't view out-of-state pricing as a factor or hurdle for the tradition to carry on and pass on. Sport/trophy has probably always been carried more by folks with money than those without by the logistics of it. Costs money to go do stuff away from home. The family tradition part is transferred by hunting within your state.

Supply/demand suggests that hunting isn't going to get cheaper any time soon. Just something we have to deal with. Gotta ante up for what's important.

Bottom Gun said:

Also, the millennial hunters and younger seem to balk at putting any effort into a hunt. For example, last year two younger friends asked if I would show them how to hunt deer. They were both quite excited when I agreed to put in a hunt application with them.
However, the excitement waned when they discovered that not only would they have to be in the field before sunrise, they wouldn’t be able to sit around in folding chairs sipping their favorite beverages while they waited for a nice buck to present itself to them to be shot.
Faced with these hard facts, they both decided deer hunting was too much trouble and opted to stay at home instead.

I’m sure there are other reasons for the decline in hunter numbers but these are two that I see.

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Also to be clear, as much as I am defending Millennials as a generation worthy of carrying on the tradition of hunting, I am not trying to say I disagree with the prominence of their* laziness etc. To a lot of people, it's too much to get up early and be cold and do work. This DID NOT start with the Millennial generation; there certainly are a good number of them that are content to stay home. I'm not saying we should necessarily target those people. It takes a hunter to be a hunter. I'm just saying, percentages or no, they are out there and they have the ability to excel at it and carry it on and I am of the notion we should foster that when we can but ultimately it's up the them and we'll be left behind one way or another.

And when we try to be a mentor and the pupil turns out to be a lazy cuss, it's certainly annoying and we have to cut our losses at some point. That's just not the whole story, is what I'm trying to say.


*Full disclaimer; I'm right on the cusp of this generation. 1983. I'm a tweener, a good portion of my childhood was without computers etc and I saw it come to prominence. So I share traits with both Gen X and Gen Y. By and large my thought processes are congruent with the former.

Bottom Gun said:

Also, the millennial hunters and younger seem to balk at putting any effort into a hunt. For example, last year two younger friends asked if I would show them how to hunt deer. They were both quite excited when I agreed to put in a hunt application with them.
However, the excitement waned when they discovered that not only would they have to be in the field before sunrise, they wouldn’t be able to sit around in folding chairs sipping their favorite beverages while they waited for a nice buck to present itself to them to be shot.
Faced with these hard facts, they both decided deer hunting was too much trouble and opted to stay at home instead.

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Well, I'm gonna be honest, there have been the occasional morning during the deer season when I've gotten out of bed, got dressed and ready, stepped out the door, took a deep breath of that cold fresh air, annnd turned around and went back to bed...
It's supposed to be fun guys but some of those single digit temp days it just ain't "fun", no matter what generation you have been born in to.

^ I don’t get that far, if when I wake up at 5:00 it’s single digit temperatures or rain I roll over and go back to sleep. My deer woods is right out the backdoor so sometimes I get a more leisurely start.

I grew up in Throckmorton County, Texas. Although we had some land and a lease, I also had permission to hunt, fish, shoot and camp on about four thousand acres for free without ever having to ask for permission. It was a very, very nice way to grow up. However, all of the land is now either owned or leased by hunters coming out of Houston, Dallas or other places. The land is now stupid expensive as are the leases. In my part of the world there is precious little public land. I co-own a ranch in a neighboring county so I am very blessed but am still sad for the days that will never come again. As someone said above, many folks don't take up hunting because they can't find a place to hunt.

Take a kid hunting, yes - but I was asked to go shooting then hunting at age 50 for the first time. It was fun, in fact I was mad at everyone for not showing me all of this sooner.

Since then I've taken my son and some of his friends shooting and hunting. First I took an NRA pistol class then a hunting safety class. It's expensive but we got on a hunting lease and compared to the few indoor ranges I've been to, shooting outdoors, scouting pre-season, sitting quietly at the base of a tree or in a pop up blind trying to call in a turkey (this has not worked out for me yet) is the way to go.

We eat what we kill, dove, quail, venison (not sure I'd eat a javelina to be honest) and my son at age 12 took a nice little spike buck. Using YouTube as our guide we field dressed the spike ourselves, I told him since we killed a living thing we needed to use it. Here's the best part: a month later in our grocery store meat department the boy looked around at all the packaged meat, then looked at me and said, "DAD!". Me, "What?". The boy, "All this meat... it came from an animal." Dawn has broken. He is IN.

'Tis the season, so take a dad hunting, get him into it and he will involve his family too. In closing: it's funny, talking with my dad about it, all of our ancestors were hunters. "Your grandfather was an excellent shot." I had no idea. Well grandpa, we are back!

someguy2800 said:

What I mean is that I think people still have good access to hunting and the chances of having a successful hunt are excellent. So people may be choosing not to hunt, but the opportunity for those that do are good and I don’t see them declining, at least where I live. If anything the reduction of hunters will improve the quality of the opportunity’s.

The big problem I see in reduced hunter participation is that means less people lobbying for hunter rights and less conservation dollars via tag sales. If not for how badly we need the conservation dollars and political support though I’d say I don’t care if people from the city can’t be bothered to go shoot their food. Just makes the hunting better for me and mine.

I want to be cognizant that there are kids reading this who want to get into hunting so we should not discourage them by saying it’s impossible to get into it. Rather we need to address the challenges and offer advice on where and how to find hunting opportunities.

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I live further South in the same state and find it very different. Any public area here is overrun by crazy city people. There are deer but they are driven off into private lands where no hunting or no public hunting is allowed. Also a major refuge has been overhunted to almost no game of any kind by people that hunt in mass with no regard for game laws. Yes if you get far enough away from the cities things change. There is plenty of land to hunt way North. But not many younger people hunt.

Re young people: About one-third of students, 9th through 12th grades, do an hour or more of physical activity on a daily basis. And less than 40% of service-eligible males can enlist in the military for lack of physical ability.

Factor this with the world of selfies, iPods and TV...

Then consider such things as urbanization and the present state of the economy. By and large, many of those middle-class folks from whom came much of the hunting fraternity no longer can afford the cost of hunting.

And hunting is not "the deal" for those wanting instant gratification.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that wussies out when the weather is bad. If I can get up, though, and get dressed, I'll go out to my box blind knowing there's a gas heater in there. Hey, I don't hunt to prove how macho I am.

A box blind with a heater sounds pretty cozy.