Ever wonder why people don’t trust us on their land like I’m told they used to?

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Let;s hope they land some serious jail time.

When I lived out West, hunting infraction penalties could include the confiscation of your firearms, your vehicle and anything used in the commission of the crime PLUS fines and jail.
 
Given how long the investigation lasted, NC will go after them pretty hard. I was just pointing out that if you read about that or things like it, you aren’t going to be inclined to let someone on your place to hunt.
 
Loyalist Dave said:
ODD..., last time I checked, when you commit any one of most of those charges, you are a poacher, NOT a hunter, even if your gang calls itself a "hunting club". OF course the reported is probably too feeble minded to even care, let alone to know the difference.

LD
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While I agree, they ARE poachers not hunters, semantics don't matter to most folks these days. Well all get lumped together.
How many landowners are willing to risk someone(s) saying "Naw, I'm REAL hunter, not a dirty Poacher"
No matter how nicely we approach them.
Pig hunters who use dogs offten suffer the same injustice. There are some awful doggers, and there are some really good ones, most are in between. Generally what land owners REMEMBER are the bad ones.
 
LoonWulf said:
While I agree, they ARE poachers not hunters, semantics don't matter to most folks these days. Well all get lumped together.
How many landowners are willing to risk someone(s) saying "Naw, I'm REAL hunter, not a dirty Poacher"
No matter how nicely we approach them.
Pig hunters who use dogs offten suffer the same injustice. There are some awful doggers, and there are some really good ones, most are in between. Generally what land owners REMEMBER are the bad ones.
Click to expand...
The old saying when I worked corporate stuff was "Do something great 99times and no one remembers; but screw up once, and no one forgets"......... we see that here when someone comes on and rants about this company or that, but we seldom hear or see threads about great companies/products/service. Bad news is always remembered.
 
Illegal hunting practices of all types (call it what you like), other illegal activity, leaving trash, failure to close gates, tearing up roads and trails, leaving trash everywhere, disposal of carcasses on property, theft, going into areas the land owners don't want people in, and liability. I lost access to an area I was hunting (where I alone had permission to hunt) because some local youths decided it was a great area in the summer to romp around on their 4 wheelers and party at night. Of course, none of these activities were present in the fall or winter when I was on the property hunting (I would have put a stop to it). The land owner and family decided the easiest thing to do was notify the authorities, post the property, and not let anyone on it.
 
Around here, the problem I find with landowner hesitance to allow hunting isn't due to poachers. It is due to irresponsible HUNTERS who may be law abiding, but not respectful of the landowners' property, rules, etc. Problems such as leaving gates open that were closed, leaving trash behind, inviting guests without permission, hunting of animals the landowner doesn't want hunted, rutting up pastures with their vehicles, etc. How or why would you trust a stranger to do right by you?

I hunt more than 10 properties, dealing primarily with hogs, coyotes, and beavers. Every one of my property owners has rules about what I am allowed to take. On some, it is simply not taking any deer or turkey. On one, it is hogs only. I have one landowner that doesn't wish me to shoot mountain lions, but his neighbor wants me to shoot any I see when I hunt the neighbor's place.

I had a buddy lose a hog hunting property because he shot a coyote off of it and he didn't have permission to shoot coyotes. He somehow got it in his mind that that landowner was mistaken and that he was doing her a favor by taking care of a problem that she didn't understand. As he said, "Never let a coyote walk." He got booted immediately for not following the rules.

Legally, poachers are just hunters that are breaking the law. There is nothing in the definition of hunting that says anything about abiding by the law. https://definitions.uslegal.com/p/poaching/ Saying poachers are not hunters reminds me of the folks that claim people aren't hunters if they don't hunt in certain manners. For example, you aren't a hunter if you hunt over bait, if you shoot too at game too close or too far, if you don't hunt for the appropriate reasons, etc.
 
My dad used to always say 10% of the people cause 90% of the problems which then causes problems for the rest of the 90% of the folks who are left.

He also used to say if you hunt on someone else’s land, follow their rules. If you don’t want to then buy your own land.

Many of the landowners around here would rather deal with the hogs than the hunters.
 
Here my experience is that the mre the cost of a lease the more if idiots there are. Things like finding someone hunting your area. People trying to fill tags on multiple licenses. Sitting on fence lines (only intent there is to hunt over the fence on another property). Every game trail straddled with ATV tracks. Fields torn up by ATVs. No acceptance of any written lease rules. Drunks. More and more poaching.
Hunting now has become kill happy blood money.
 
I worry more about some bs litigation than most other things. We have had a few cattle shot (likely by spotlights) and plenty of gates left open etc. I also had 2 personal game cameras go missing a few years back. Its still for the best that I don't find out who that was...... and once had a tractor that cranked itself all the way across the road and burned up the starter but I suspect maybe the solenoid did that without help from an idiot. I just try to remind myself that not everyone inherited any land and the more people hunting, the more hopefully protecting the 2A. At the least they are buying guns and ammo which goes to companies who are
 
Man oh man do I wish I had some of the problems you guys have. Around here its about 50/50 you will get told no. I used to have about 10 properties I had access to hunt on with only a handful allowing deer hunting. Show up in the spring and ask for permission, offer to shoot some woodchucks for them, bring an apple pie and G2G. I have been told no pheasant hunting, no squirrel hunting, no hog hunting, no turkey or deer, no rabbit. I do find it odd that the guy says you can coon and squirrel hunt but no rabbit, pheasant, deer, turkey or hog. Come to find out they are in cahoots with a local hunt club and want to keep the members happy.

1) Landowner wont sign a slip because someone screwed them over in the past and they couldn't get rid of them because they had written permission. Driving through the wheat and beans.
2) Landowner forgets to tell son, who hunts, he gave two of us permission to deer hunt. Son got pissed and talked to the father who said go ahead and hunt just stay away from a certain area. I already had a stand up and just took it down and never went back.
3) Gates- (same property as #2) this one is sketchy because I have been told if a gates open its open for a reason so do not close it. One day walking in I noticed a calf standing in the pasture and the gate was open. I went ahead and closed the gate for fear of the calf getting out. A week later I was coon hunting and noticed the electric fence was arching badly so I notified the landowner about it. He didn't even remember giving me permission to hunt but said seeing how I took the time to come tell him I was welcome to hunt anytime I wanted. He also had a thing about parking in a pull off a leaving your keys incase he needed to move the truck. I wasn't too keen on all this so I just quit hunting there.
4) Landowner allows different family members to sign slips and when the brother found out the actual owner signed for me he wasn't too happy because some rich city slicker gives the brother $ for hunting rights. Says he takes care of him, he's just letting me know. When asked who is hunting he says only you and one other guy. Brother and sister in law and wife signed for 10 other guys no one knew about. I still hunt there but not as much. Guy who slips the brother cash accused me of being a trespasser and the brother said he didn't know me and I wasn't allowed to hunt.
5) Landowner signs for anyone who bangs on the door. I walked out one afternoon of deer gun week because 5 guys piled into 30 acres and my truck was blocked in and I couldn't get out. One guy with 25yrs permission invites 5-6 of his buddies to hunt.
6) Landowner says its me a father and son and no one else should be hunting there. I run into a guy at farm #4 who is bragging how he cut someone's stand down, told the guy he's going to whip his butt if he ever walks in on him at first light again, not a real hunter, idiot, ruined hunt, etc.. etc. I said oh, you must be the father and son team? Yeah, but he walked in on my buddy and his buddy and it pissed me off.
7) Only allowed to hunt with a friend of mine and only squirrel and coon. Apparently two guys were deer hunting and one found the other in his stand and an argument ensued. Two dummies went to the landowner and he kicked everyone out.

#1, 4, 5, 6, 7 are the reasons people don't want to deal with hunters! If I had these issues no one would hunt! I try and get it done early or late season and avoid the weekend warriors who only show up a week a year. I always ask where to park, where to hunt, who else maybe hunting, offer to help with chores, pick up trash, etc. If there is an issue I don't even tell the landowner I just quit hunting there.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
He also had a thing about parking in a pull off a leaving your keys incase he needed to move the truck
Click to expand...

Most around me leave their keys. It's pretty annoying to be blocked out of your cattle or something because you let someone hunt. I understand that one completely.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
Man oh man do I wish I had some of the problems you guys have. Around here its about 50/50 you will get told no. I used to have about 10 properties I had access to hunt on with only a handful allowing deer hunting. Show up in the spring and ask for permission, offer to shoot some woodchucks for them, bring an apple pie and G2G. I have been told no pheasant hunting, no squirrel hunting, no hog hunting, no turkey or deer, no rabbit. I do find it odd that the guy says you can coon and squirrel hunt but no rabbit, pheasant, deer, turkey or hog. Come to find out they are in cahoots with a local hunt club and want to keep the members happy.

1) Landowner wont sign a slip because someone screwed them over in the past and they couldn't get rid of them because they had written permission. Driving through the wheat and beans.
2) Landowner forgets to tell son, who hunts, he gave two of us permission to deer hunt. Son got pissed and talked to the father who said go ahead and hunt just stay away from a certain area. I already had a stand up and just took it down and never went back.
3) Gates- (same property as #2) this one is sketchy because I have been told if a gates open its open for a reason so do not close it. One day walking in I noticed a calf standing in the pasture and the gate was open. I went ahead and closed the gate for fear of the calf getting out. A week later I was coon hunting and noticed the electric fence was arching badly so I notified the landowner about it. He didn't even remember giving me permission to hunt but said seeing how I took the time to come tell him I was welcome to hunt anytime I wanted. He also had a thing about parking in a pull off a leaving your keys incase he needed to move the truck. I wasn't too keen on all this so I just quit hunting there.
4) Landowner allows different family members to sign slips and when the brother found out the actual owner signed for me he wasn't too happy because some rich city slicker gives the brother $ for hunting rights. Says he takes care of him, he's just letting me know. When asked who is hunting he says only you and one other guy. Brother and sister in law and wife signed for 10 other guys no one knew about. I still hunt there but not as much. Guy who slips the brother cash accused me of being a trespasser and the brother said he didn't know me and I wasn't allowed to hunt.
5) Landowner signs for anyone who bangs on the door. I walked out one afternoon of deer gun week because 5 guys piled into 30 acres and my truck was blocked in and I couldn't get out. One guy with 25yrs permission invites 5-6 of his buddies to hunt.
6) Landowner says its me a father and son and no one else should be hunting there. I run into a guy at farm #4 who is bragging how he cut someone's stand down, told the guy he's going to whip his butt if he ever walks in on him at first light again, not a real hunter, idiot, ruined hunt, etc.. etc. I said oh, you must be the father and son team? Yeah, but he walked in on my buddy and his buddy and it pissed me off.
7) Only allowed to hunt with a friend of mine and only squirrel and coon. Apparently two guys were deer hunting and one found the other in his stand and an argument ensued. Two dummies went to the landowner and he kicked everyone out.

#1, 4, 5, 6, 7 are the reasons people don't want to deal with hunters! If I had these issues no one would hunt! I try and get it done early or late season and avoid the weekend warriors who only show up a week a year. I always ask where to park, where to hunt, who else maybe hunting, offer to help with chores, pick up trash, etc. If there is an issue I don't even tell the landowner I just quit hunting there.
Click to expand...

"One guy with 25yrs permission invites 5-6 of his buddies to hunt."
That has become problem too. One place a group brought in 6 guests on openning weekend.
One place it was just 2 of us and the guy that was there first allowed people to come out, mainly family. I have no family interested in it. Fished the river, shot clay, basically just goof around but no hunting.
Asked a if I could bring a friend out to goof around that would help mow camp area. Oh yeah, have fun. Did a bit of plinking in way off season. Next thing I know he's pissed. Hadn't done anything he hasn't done but all of a sudden it's not ok for me.
Was told no doe, 1 buck and by regs allowed spike. Shot nice 8pt and my kill was not met with anything but scrutiny and distain. Shot a big spike that really needed harvesting. Met with, ain't nobody shot 2 deer in 10 years. I was like you said no doe but a spike was allowed by regs.
Then he was pissed I hadn't paid anything on electric. He never said what was owed and I had done all the mowing and weedeating and figured he was considering that as my part. Oh, no. This guy had absolutely no consideration for anything anybody did. At that point I knew he was trying to get me to pay the entire bill. I stayed in a tiny camper. No fridge. No heat. So old you wouldn't dare plug in the electric or hook up propane to it. Lived on hot plate, space heater and drop lights. He ran a big camper. Fridge, air, heat, all the stuff. Also ran a freezer in a shed 24/7/365. If my rat hole burned $1 a day that was high, real high. My stuff did not run when out in field. His did.
 
The gift of a hunt or a day fishing or camping is probably the nicest thing I can offer anyone. I'm not likely to do that for a random stranger who just shows up asking. If the majority of them are decent people, how do you tell? People tend to be on their best manners when they're asking for a valuable gift. Although, it's surprising how quick the nicest seeming person can turn when you say no.

In recent years, I've changed my policy. Before a person gets to ask permission to enter my land for any reason, they have to offer written contact information, which tends to cut down on the displays of anger when I say no.

A landscape usually empty is no bad thing. Reclusive deer, turkey and bear tend to expand their range into food sources with lighter cover, and geese nest in places they wouldn't dare if there was always a camper and a fisherman too near. Farmland reverts to something of the character of wilderness, except that it tends to have an artificially high presence of wildlife.

Of those few I invite, I have no qualms about adjusting state bag limits downward, if I think the local situation merits--although never up, regardless of whether I agree with the state's assessment. In late years, the state has been generous with doe permits, so this is no longer an issue.

I do make allowances for hunters. To many the idea of eating game and fish is simply an anathema to their urban and suburban tastes, and to do so isn't an act of joy but rather one of penance. While they're here, I try to cook something wild in a way that might make some small inroads into that cultural prejudice. What they really want is a trophy beyond the ordinary. For me, while I will and have eaten a mature whitetail buck, I'll always pass it for a young doe, if I have the chance, and I'm just as happy catching smaller frying pan sized fish.

From what I've seen, the average hunter would benefit if he could re-assess how he looks at the hunt. It's not competition. The most magnificent trophy is an interesting oddity and less a statement of the man who killed it. Whatever luck comes your way, no matter how hard you work, more will come the way of someone who lacks the ethics to deserve it. The hunt is life on the edge, and what it says of us may not always be kind.
 
Keep in mind that when a landowner allows a person to hunt s/he is taking more than a little responsibility for their welfare. Case in point: one person over in White County allowed his city people niece's sons to not only hunt his property but set up a semi permanent campsite. Three years later the party had grown from two to fifteen and one of the newcomers informed the owner it was his responsibility to see to... shall we say sanitation. Two years later they were demanding electric hookups & running water. The last straw was when one of the "hunters" managed to cut himself cutting bacon and sued the landowner for his medical bills with the claim the insurance would pay for it anyway...
 
Double Naught Spy said:
I am not sure how you self identify
Click to expand...
As a Fine Figure of a Man of course.

Sometimes intentional sometimes not, stories like this group honest hunters that follow the rules in with those that never do.
No offense meant, your statement "Legally, poachers are just hunters that are breaking the law." is no different than saying "hunters are just poachers that have not broken the law yet".
 
LoonWulf said:
There are some awful doggers, and there are some really good ones, most are in between. Generally what land owners REMEMBER are the bad ones.
Click to expand...

When I hunted in Alabama, 'outlaws' would steal dogs and turn them loose on private property and station themselves on roads surrounding the property. Once the dogs had run around awhile chasing deer, the outlaws would take whatever deer they shot and leave the dogs. This created a double problem for the landowners because they had to try and catch the dogs to get them off their property.

They did this mostly at night. :fire:
 
I would like to believe there is honor within the hunting community...but experience has proven otherwise.

You can call an unethical hunter a poacher if you want, but they share the same goal as ethical hunters. One just takes game outside the unwritten code of conduct that others follow. In the end, I don't want the responsibility as a land owner to sort them out before giving permission to hunt....it's not worth the headaches.

I've spent years as a Hunting Education Instructor providing proper hunting instruction, only to find it's made little to no difference in the percentage of slob hunters. Hunting has turned into an "ego competition" where size matters more than how it was taken. Add to that the social media madness of showing off your trophy to get attention from your piers, which leads to crossing ethical boundaries. Factor in immaturity, alcohol, and the entitlement mentality...why would I want to deal with those problems?

In the past I've given permission only to find these hunters thought they had a lifetime pass for themselves and their friends. Where does that entitlement mentality come from?

Then there's the economics of hunting, as a land owner I front all the expense of the habitat (several million dollars) and upkeep plus taxes, etc. The hunter hopes to reap the benefit for little to nothing in comparison. For those that ask, no thanks, I'll keep it for family members to hunt.
 
I honestly can't believe so many let people hunt on their property. Buddy falls out of your deer stand, your liable. I understand there's a bit of trust amongst us hunters, but I'd never let someone outside of my direct family hunt my land.
 
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