Which progressive press?

We don't have a dog in your race. Another suggestion is to google Dillon to see the overwhelming owner approval of that equipment. If you have your mind made up not to be confused with facts is no place to be. Many of us have seen these other machines come and go. Dillon came up with the better mouse trap. Another suggestion is to actually look, at these products to see what you are getting. That is actually touch and feel. Also, look to Dillon support as to information and guarantee. What we are trying to share is our experience loading many thousands of rounds over many years.

I have been loading on the same Dillon 550B for over thirty years, and it has been awesome. I would be extremely disappointed if someone spent a bunch of money and gifted me a lesser press, because I would be hesitant to disrespect them by selling it off. I would prefer a $400 (or whatever the budget is) gift certificate so I could buy what I want.

My feeling are that the top limit of $400.00 is a real problem. Actually, all these other makers are trying to compete with the 900 lb. Blue gorilla in market place.

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I don’t think they are trying to compete with Dillon, they are going after another market all together.

Like the op in this case. He put a dollar limit on what he wanted to spend that precludes Dillon machines as a choice.

My old basic Dillon 550 is twenty or so years old and was rebuilt from an old 450. I have amortized the cost probably the first couple of years of use. I'd suggest you folks consider spending a little more money for more choices.

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This seems to be a lesson learned, for a number of folks, over time. Everything seems too expensive in the beginning for people who want to save money without much effort. If they sat down and put pen to paper on just the component costs of their expectations over the first few years they would see it’s not a huge investment/expenditure and one your still going to have to live with long after you have burned through the ammo.

jmorris said:

This seems to be a lesson learned, for a number of folks, over time. Everything seems too expensive in the beginning for people who want to save money without much effort. If they sat down and put pen to paper on just the component costs of their expectations over the first few years they would see it’s not a huge investment/expenditure and one your still going to have to live with long after you have burned through the ammo.

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I put off reloading since 2006...and now that I've finally taken the dive, I wish I would have just "bit the bullet" years ago. End of year 2018 I read, and read, and then read some more. I asked my local gunsmith, who has shot more in competition than I probably ever will...time and time again, sifting through it all, Dillon kept coming up over and over again.

When I bought my 550 setup in Feb, was it expensive? Sure...but even that is subjective. In a hobby such as this, where many firearms easily scrape $1000 and then only take off form there, was my $1200 investment of a nicely outfitted machine and other needed components really that absurd? Nope.

I won't bore you here with my complete numbers...but I'll say this. With my shooting this year of just 38 and 44 special, minus actual materials costs (costs = S&H, tax, etc), I'm already up $200 vs what I would have spent on factory ammo. So...$1200-200 and I'm not even into this shooting season fully as of yet. 5 years from now, I'll be more than glad I spent the money on my 550.

During my lifetime so far, I spent over $170,000 on various reloading equipment/components and shooting equipment (guns and accessories). This may be a surprise to many but if you do any amount of shooting, over time, most of the shooting cost will be outpaced by ammunition and reloading components. So advice to buy Dillon presses with 'No BS lifetime warranty" is a sound one.

But we are all human and when buying reloading presses, spending close to $1,000 or more is hard to do, especially if we have financial limitations. After college shooting USPSA with limited income, I was trained to reload on Dillon 550/Pro 1000 but I chose to buy Pro 1000 due to lower cost, auto index and case feeder. Later, I transitioned from Dillon 450 to 650 with case feeder and while it's a great press, it also does have its set of issues and quirks.

To Dillon fans who have not used the Auto Breech Lock Pro, it is a significant departure from Lee's other presses. To me, it's their first "properly" engineered press that addressed most issues users of Lee presses and other brand presses had. After 5000+ rounds, my ABLP is still solid with no looseness and with only motor oil for lubrication, operates smoothly and reliably. Essentially, progressive press moves ram up and down while rotating shell plate and ABLP does this well consistently.

Instead, look at ABLP differently as an affordable "entry level" progressive press that may meet the needs of many reloaders. There are many reloaders who started out with LCT but due to lower volume of rounds, meets their reloading needs without having to upgrade. To those wanting to enter progressive press market but with limited budget, ABLP allows them an economical option if they cannot afford other progressive presses. And ABLP will allow them higher production rate compared to single stage/LCT. When equipped with Safety Prime and case feeder/collator, production rate increases to several hundred rounds per hour.

Will ABLP last a lifetime? It's too new for us to speculate. I retired a Pro 1000 after reloading 200,000+ rounds. My guess is ABLP will easily surpass that round count. And even if you have to replace the press, it's around $100.

ohihunter2014 said:

I already have the auto drum and priming tool, so it will be much cheaper for me.

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So for you, it will be $100 for the press and cost of shell plates, breech lock quick change bushings, case feeder/collator.

I went through a similar dilemma this December and if you go to my profile there is a thread associated with it. I ended up going with the LNL. I really like it so far. The shell plates are costly though. The free 500 bullets is a great perk. I received 500 180gr .429 xtp’s. Not my first choice of weight but it’s a $150 value.

Jessesky said:

I ended up going with the LNL

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But with no case feeder?

For me, case feeder really increases the production rate of progressive press. With ABLP, I operate the ram lever with right hand while actuating Safety Prime and setting bullets with left hand. And case collator can fill the tubes rather quickly.

While actuating Safety Prime does slow down the production rate a bit, compared to progressive press without case feeder, much faster. And with Safety Prime, you can 100% visually ensure primer is in the cup before priming the case.

bds said:

But with no case feeder.

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No, no case feeder. Eventually I will add that on and a bullet hopper

You can start with press and shell plate/bushings for now and add case feeder/collator later.

Production rate will still be higher than from LCT.

For me, it's either add a bullet feeding die and tubes or case feeder and tubes so both my right and left hand have only one function during a cycle.
Because Lee presses are easy to add a case feeder, that's what I do, for my other presses it's easier to ad a bullet feeding die to get to that left hand/one operation point.
Either setup greatly increases the production of any color press and adding both takes production even higher.
This kind of reads like an echo of a previous post of mine but I thought it needs to be mentioned again.

bds said:

You can start with press and shell plate/bushings for now and add case feeder/collator later.

Production rate will still be higher than from LCT.

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I've been following all the ABLP threads here since it came out. Looks like it's turned out to be a very nice press.

I'm still able to keep up with my 10K of 9mm a year on my LCT, but I do like to try new things. I've been wondering if any of you users of the ABLP have gotten around to using the bullet feeder. I recall early on that it could be problematic and I notice that even Lee warns in the manual that it can be "a frustrating experience". I doubt I'd use it if I got the press. I'd probably be suffering from overload just dealing with four stations at once, but I'm just curious as to the bullet feeder. Thanks for any info you have.

EDIT: Looks like Tilos brought it up.

Dave

You know, it's funny. I think the deal with the case/bullet feeder really comes down to personal need.

Me? I'm not a 10,000rd/yr kind of guy so batches of 500 are more than enough for me. I was told I'd regret getting the 550 over the 650 due to the case feeder and rounds per min thing but thus far, I'm perfectly happy with what I got. Perhaps one day I'll come to the point where I really want a press with an auto case feeder, but at the moment, I'm a-ok.

D Rock said:

I've been following all the ABLP threads here since it came out. Looks like it's turned out to be a very nice press.

I'm still able to keep up with my 10K of 9mm a year on my LCT, but I do like to try new things. I've been wondering if any of you users of the ABLP have gotten around to using the bullet feeder. I recall early on that it could be problematic and I notice that even Lee warns in the manual that it can be "a frustrating experience". I doubt I'd use it if I got the press. I'd probably be suffering from overload just dealing with four stations at once, but I'm just curious as to the bullet feeder. Thanks for any info you have.
EDIT: Looks like Tilos brought it up.
Dave

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The actual Lee bullet feeder has proved problematic for some and has received a few updates in it's design along the way.
Both the Hornady and RCBS bullet feeders have been loved or hated too.
But the BIG difference here is the Lee feeder is added-on to the seating die and does not need a separate station like the thru the die feeders sold by RCBS and Hornady.
Using either of those, because a separate station is needed, would change the progression to seating/crimping in one station, on the ABLP 4 station press.
I have searched all these feeders on Youtube and found plenty of vids to watch of all 3 bullet feeders, if you're interested.

bds said:

But with no case feeder?

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Jessesky said:

No, no case feeder. Eventually I will add that on and a bullet hopper

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When I got my L&L I thought I would get a case feeder a bit later. I found out I didn’t need one.

The right hand runs the handle and the left hand sets in a case then a bullet then a case then a bullet.


My thoughts for the OP:

If you want to reload as a secondary hobby get a Lee or better yet, get a Lock & Load.

If you want to reload because you want a bunch of rounds to shoot, spring for the Dillon.

You know, it's funny. I think the deal with the case/bullet feeder really comes down to personal need.

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I hope not, I don’t need lots of stuff I have.

Collated case and bullet feeders just make things so simple. All you have to do is watch everything happen and stroke the handle.



If you think I am a Lee “hater” you can watch the video I posted in #9, page1.

4pages and 90 posts. Surprising so far is this topic has stayed absolutely civil! Unlike most others. Good job friends!

There have been many good discussions of the new Lee ABLP, the normal amount of support for all things Dillon, a few Hornady voices but only 1 for any of the RCBS. I have brought up my opinions and views of the Lee Pro1000 but again I don't recall much being said about the Lee Loadmaster or the Dillon SDB. So this gives me a pretty good indication of how sentiments fall for all these progressive presses.

All I can add to anyone looking to move up to a progressive press is to do your Due Diligence and don't just take the crowds word. Read all the reviews, watch all the videos read the forums. There is more than enough information to be had that anyone with any amount of reasoning and intelligence should be able to make an informed decision on which press is the correct one for what they want to do and how much they want to spend.

I have a pretty good feel for what my yearly needs are as far as ammunitions. Yes it may fluctuate some but not to where it is significant. I have a progressive press and I know I could also complete what I need yearly on a Turret but I like machines and I like working with them. Even with that I know I can very easily complete all my needs in probably 12 days per year or once every 3 months. So I have to ask myself, as nice as a Dillon 650 or a Hornady LNL Ammo Plant is do I really need to spend that kind of money to complete what I do and then having it sit idle the rest of the year?

bds said:

Will ABLP last a lifetime? It's too new for us to speculate. I retired a Pro 1000 after reloading 200,000+ rounds. My guess is ABLP will easily surpass that round count. And even if you have to replace the press, it's around $100.

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I don't know, Lee will replace any of the parts for the cost of shipping.

kmw1954 said:

4pages and 90 posts. Surprising so far is this topic has stayed absolutely civil! Unlike most others. Good job friends!.... So I have to ask myself, as nice as a Dillon 650 or a Hornady LNL Ammo Plant is do I really need to spend that kind of money to complete what I do and then having it sit idle the rest of the year?

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Short answer is no you don't but...

Long answer is a high quality press is a pleasure to use and makes this activity more enjoyable for me personally.

There is a certain brand of press that I've owned in the past, had problem after problem with, wasted my time and money on, and would never even remotely consider that brand again for future needs due to these experiences. Especially when out of frustration I ended up replacing every bit of it with better equipment and tossed out that starter press.

At the end of the day you get what you pay for. I think the point that many of us are trying to get across is that cost alone should not be the driving factor in this conversation. There is no two ways about it. Reloading is an expensive endeavor. It's not just the cost of the press. As you grow in knowledge and experience, your needs and wants will change. The surrounding tooling can add up to costing much much more than the cost of the press...fast.

Invest in your future growth.

.40

forty_caliber said:

Short answer is no you don't but...

Reloading is an expensive endeavor. It's not just the cost of the press. As you grow in knowledge and experience, your needs and wants will change. The surrounding tooling can add up to costing much much more than the cost of the press...fast.

Invest in your future growth.

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At 65 years old I think I've invested as far as I'm going to go. I have what I want and need. I have no interest in loading bottleneck rifle as I have on interest in them. Thought about adding a 40S&W but that has faded too. To worry if my Lee press will last another 30 years, again I doubt I will still be reloading in another 30 years or even another 20.

Also just like any other hobby or pass time it only gets as expensive as you make it. I have 4 reloading presses and I know for a fact I have less then $600.00 invested in all of it. Including Dies, measures, scales and yes, even the bench. Now you ant to talk expenses? Shooting and reloading has nothing on Fishing.

forty_caliber said:

There is a certain brand of press that I've owned in the past, had problem after problem with, wasted my time and money on, and would never even remotely consider that brand again for future needs due to these experiences.

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But thing is that was YOUR experience and you decided to never use that brand again [Lee likely]. That's your choice. There are many reloaders, me included, who decided to figure things out instead of being frustrated and shared those solutions with other frustrated reloaders so they too could enjoy reloading instead of being frustrated. Yes, together as a group, we have somehow managed to address most issues to resolution on support threads like this - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lutions-no-bashing.507454/page-3#post-7877744

That's why public forums like THR exist so people can network and utilize combined resources of the collective experiences of the members to solve problems.

And believe me, over on Brian Enos forum, there are many frustrated Dillon users too but as a group, we also help fellow Dillon users too so they are not frustrated - https://forums.brianenos.com/forum/78-dillon-precision-reloading-equipment/

And things change over time.

Have you used the new Auto Breech Lock Pro? If not, you may be pleasantly surprised how far Lee has come to meet their customers' needs. Who knows, perhaps John Lee listened to his customers' complaints over the years and decided to address those complaints with the Auto Breech Lock Pro.

And BTW, the humble venerable Pro 1000, which likely introduced many people to reloading, was totally redesigned in 2018 and now feature flat solid base, through shell plate index rod, through ram spent primer collection, improved ram lever linkage with roller handle, etc. - https://leeprecision.com/pro-1000-9mm-luger.html

forty_caliber said:

At the end of the day you get what you pay for.

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And I will show you a long list of threads where consistent test rounds were loaded using a humble press such as Pro 1000 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

forty_caliber said:

Invest in your future growth.

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What we a trying to share is that many people become more interested in reloading. The first generation equipment , the good idea at the time, is retired. Then what?

I would, in this day, never decide that X number of loads for this year. A new gun or a different caliber would upset the best plans. That is, unless I plan to fire the new gun with its allotment of rounds come around. Right? The above quote is the summary my experience. My first generation stuff was RCBS Moved on when my interest changed. There's still an often used RC in the Skunk Works. There is also a Dillon 550 where all the handgun cartridges are loaded. Hope your plans work out well.

bds said:

During my lifetime so far, I spent over $170,000 on various reloading equipment/components and shooting equipment (guns and accessories).

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Holy crap, I don't think I would ever admit to a dollar value much less put it out there online. You never know who might be looking over your shoulder (wife).

bds said:

But with no case feeder?

For me, case feeder really increases the production rate of progressive press. With ABLP, I operate the ram lever with right hand while actuating Safety Prime and setting bullets with left hand. And case collator can fill the tubes rather quickly.

.

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A 3-D printed case feeder using the Lee system and tubes on the L-n-L can be made for free or bought for $80 or so over at thingiverse.com . I recently got one and it will be in a future thread once I get a chance for some photos and a thousand rounds or so through it to see if there are any issues. All good so far and just as inexpensive as the lee case feeder.

Jeff H said:

You never know who might be looking over your shoulder (wife).

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Don't worry, wife is OK as we have an agreement that she gets to spend double what I spend on my hobbies.

kmw1954 said:

Shooting and reloading has nothing on Fishing.

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Yes I concur. I have two Starcraft boats. One 21' with Berkeley jet drive and 18' with outboards. Both set up for saltwater fishing. I tell you, boating/fishing makes shooting/reloading look like a cheap hobby.