An H-Bar -A2 AR - where do I find a really good one?

AlexanderA said:

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I am trying to put together an A2 style rifle at the current time. This is proving to be much harder than I expected. I went to a large gun show this weekend (the Nation's Gun Show in Chantilly, Virginia), and all the complete uppers -- and even stripped upper receivers -- that were for sale were of the flat top variety. Brownells has a stripped A2 upper (DPMS), but the only suitable barrel assembly that they carry (without the M4 ramps) has the "F" marked front sight base.

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Fulton Armory offers A2 uppers with or without M4 feed ramps, your choice.

MistWolf said:

Fulton Armory offers A2 uppers with or without M4 feed ramps, your choice.

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Fulton is asking $900 for a complete upper, versus about $600 from Brownells for the same thing. Of course you have to assemble the Brownells parts yourself, but that's no biggie.

I was referring to just the upper receiver. About $100 for a stripped receiver. $200 for a complete receiver.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but I had to post some pictures of my oldest AR and of course it is an A2. It is an Eagle Arms that I purchased about 25 years ago. I have shot tons of round through this old girl and she still shoots like a dream. Before our stupid Assault Rifle BS, this rifle was my constant off road companion. We have logged lots of dirt road miles together. Of all my AR's this is the one positioned at the front of the safe for immediate use if needed. I realize all of the attributes of shorter variants, but this one fits me well, shoots really easy, and has the closest trajectory to my varmint hunting .223 rifles. It has a fifty yard zero and I can simply hold and hit for all realistic ranges. No bells, no whistles, just bare bones functionality.

Went to the Kansas City Gun Show yesterday, saw nothing that I wanted to shell out the $ for in A2 20 inch AR15's. I think I'm going to snag a Capco complete upper posted earlier here + a PSA upper & 2 PSA lowers resulting in 2 rifles.

My A2 set up is a White Oak service match upper with a Colt lower with JP trigger set to the class legal 4.5#.
It flat shoots lights out and wouldn't be too expensive to do on a mil spec lower. Assembling a lower is very easy. Since you're a Far and guy I'd prolly add a Larue or PSA 2 stage match trigger they're both very good.

I have a windham 20" governement. And i love it.

Originally I wanted an A2, but I wanted something really accurate and that ran me into National Match rifles.

Took a look at RRA and found a NM A4. The NM sight is great for a sunny day on a grassy range, not so great for even mediocre light. So I picked up another carry handle for it.

If I wanted to at some point I could also take the carry handle off altogether and put on a scope. So sort of the best of both worlds I think.



That’s literally the first shots I fired out of it with nothing special bulk FMJ.

Browning said:

If I wanted to at some point I could also take the carry handle off altogether and put on a scope. So sort of the best of both worlds I think.

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Check to make sure your front sight base is marked with an "F" on the left side. The "F" marked base is 1.970" high (from the top of the barrel to the sight platform) whereas the regular unmarked base is 1.870" high. The "F" marked base is specifically for flat-top uppers with removable carrying handles (apparently the rear sight is 1/10" higher on those rifles, versus ones with non-removable carrying handles).

Received my 20 inch A3 Kit from PSA. Picked up a receiver Saturday. 3 surplus Carry handle sights are waiting for me at the Post Office.
Need to assemble the receiver.

Pics to follow in the next week or so.

Aint she pretty for $460? Just need a sling.

^^^
Looks good.

I am assembilng a kit 20" rifle soon.
It will have a non chrome delton barrel, and standard a2 parts.
This thing is going to be a shooter!
I believe that Colt makes a 20" govt, along with Windham, BCM. Stag made a retro 20" rifle, along with Armalite.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/826695040
seems legit

drobs said:

Aint she pretty for $460? Just need a sling.

View attachment 855036

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So how’s it shoot?

Have you considered a Flat top A4 with the A2 carry handle/sights? Gives you the best of both worlds, an A2 sight system with the ability to convert easily to optics. I have a RRA NM A4/A2, I have switched to optics as I find them easier to shoot well and can double the use for long distance coyotes. When I was still shooting the A2 NM sights in competition, I found them comparable to fixed A2 NM in terms of repeatability. Never changed my adjustments from initial zero and dope over a couple thousand rounds until the optics were allowed in CMP/EIC matches. Also gives you the option of adding an inexpensive brass deflector to make your brass pickup easier and make the shooter to your right happier.

I had what sounds & looks like exactly what you want. It was my very FIRST AR ever which I got cheap-cheap after the ban.
A Colt HBAR & looking back it was beautiful, but back then I came across flat top AR 10 versions which lured me away.
I traded it for 2, make that 2 AR 10s with my gun shop owner & friend who seemed to glad with the trade which I didn't mind
because I got what I wanted.
The best part is, HE STILL HAS IT !
I could ask him if he would let it go but be warned , it probably wont be cheap.
I will make a note to myself to ask him in the morning & if you reply that you are still in the looking, I will let you know.
Haven't read all this thread, maybe you already have a lead or even got one already.

OP
1. get this upper https://www.gunbroker.com/item/826129186
2. take another 30 seconds to add the BCG, charging handle and an A2 lower (those are a lot more readily available).
3. Enjoy!

The one trivial note I'd add about CAPCO uppers are a bit different hue than the deep black anodization of typical ARs - its a bit closer to the old Colt grey, but with very slight blue/green tint. Hardly notice the difference though. Regardless, these uppers are real GI ... USAF ordered a bunch to upgrade their M16A1s, the rest went surplus. If this guy has the same that I bought, you'll be pleasantly surprised to receive a mint A2 upper, sealed in plastic.

A2 lowers are plentiful - Stag, Fulton Armory, Rock River Arms, etc... RRA's are even on sale now, so a $430 CAPCO upper with complete $189 RRA Aw lower, plus BCG and charging handle - I'd argue you'd get a superior A2 rifle to Bushmasters current offer, for equal or less money. Or you could find a pricer "name brand" complete lower if the logo is a factor.

Bushmasters have had great years, and they have had bad years, in terms of quality and consistency of their rifles. I just don't know how the current "new" Bushmaster compares with the old Maine era Bushmasters I have had. They say the original Bushmaster team started up Windham Weaponry, and that might be an alternative if you just want a rifle out of the box.

I've had a couple of Bushmaster 20" rifles over the years, picked them both up in the latter part of the 1990s.
- One XM15ES2 had an upper that was nothing but trouble - just a lemon out of the factory. Ended up replacing that with a AWB-era neutered upper. Circa 1996. It now sports a CAPCO A2 upper.
- The second was very good, and still have it (though now swapped in a A4 style HBAR upper) - Circa 2001.
- The third was their M4 style Patrolman - circa 2008. Fantastic rifle.

I still can't believe the good ol' A2 is "retro" now. I guess I've finally become old and retro myself.

wojownik said:

I still can't believe the good ol' A2 is "retro" now. I guess I've finally become old and retro myself.

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I feel the same way. I find that post-1990 AR's are gimmicky, and have gone off in many different directions. This lack of standardization is bedeviling to me as a collector. That's why I've pretty much stopped my collection with the A2.

LOL ... that's why some call ARs the lego set for grownups ... you can build and accessorize anyway you like (somone also had a Barbie doll reference once).

In terms of collectability and standardization, I just don't know. The classics for sure, older Colts like the SP-1, clones in proper A1/A2/A4/M4 configs (using GI and SOPMOD as standards). But after that ... it's whatever strikes a "collector"/users fancy. Race guns, hyper accurizing, oddball calibers ... there's a config available for virtually any interest, whim or niche...

back to the OP's question - I dug into the Palmetto "A2" a bit more - was on the phone with them, and their sales rep clearly had no idea what an A2 really was. He referred that a the old 1990s A1, not like the Vietnam era A1. Whaaaat? And their A2 was indeed an A2, even though it really was an A4-style (removable carry handle). Guy nearly cratered the sale for the other stuff I was really inquiring about to purchase.

I guess the A2 with fixed carry handle really has become a retro niche ...

AlexanderA said:

I feel the same way. I find that post-1990 AR's are gimmicky, and have gone off in many different directions. This lack of standardization is bedeviling to me as a collector. That's why I've pretty much stopped my collection with the A2.

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lionking said:

I have a Colt A2 H-bar sporter I bought in 1992, in recent years I also have a Colt A4 and FN A4 and they are all equal in accuracy. With the A4 you have a choice of removing the carry handle for optics. Of course IF you want you can add a optic to the A2 handle also.

That said my Bushmaster M4 carbine made in the early 2000's is as accurate as the 20 inch ones, at least at 100 yds.

All of mine shoot better with 55gr compared to 62 gr.

A2 /A4 rear sights are the best iron adjustable sights I have ever used.

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I bought mine around the same time....don't remember when....could have been late 80's....it was not long after I got married so early 90's would be the latest.

Back then not a great many options.....I want to say I paid over a grand back then for it.....no one had them back then....if you wanted 223 you had a Ruger.....the AR was just too expensive.....now it is the other way around. I shot it quite a bit....dealing with the....iz dat a' machinegunz.....type questions for about a decade.....then AR's started to grow on trees and it went to the back of the safe as I got tired of the "real colt" stupidity.

The AR is a fine platform....it is its fan base that just drives me very far away. It comes out at home to plink....but it never goes to the range....even the private club range.

I just finished my 20" minimalist build.
View attachment 855326

Browning said:

So how’s it shoot?

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Still need a sling. 20 inch PSA A3 Kit.

25yds sand bagged sitting off back porch - 15rds of Federal American Eagle XM855 62gr FMJ Green Tip. Shooting 3rd groups:



Coffee doesn't help.