Help with an AR buy, is this a good one?

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usp9

usp9

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I'm a pistol guy but I want to add a AR15 to the collection. I have a chance to buy one, for what I think is a good price, that will be built with the following components;

"•Lower Specs:
•-Lower receiver made from T6-7075 aluminum, mil-spec hard coted
•-Mil-spec lower parts kit
•-M4 6 position adjustable stock
•-Aluminum enhanced trigger guard
•-1-30rd magazine

•Upper Specs:

•-Upper receiver made from T6-7075 aluminum, mil-spec hard coted
•-Mil-spec upper parts kit
•-Carbine length, free float aluminum quadrail
•-Carbine length gas system
•-16", 9 twist, .750 Government barrel, black phosphate
•-A2 flash hider
•-Picitinny gas block
•-.223/5.56 bolt carrier, staked to mil-spec, chrome lined key/carrier, forward assist serrations 8620 material carrier/9310 material bolt, ISO 9001:2000 Certified"


The problem is I don't know enough about the specs listed to tell whether it's a good carbine or not. I don't need great or spectacular... just reliable and good for plinking fun and perhaps protection. No sight included.

Based on the above, is this a AR people would invest in? What price range should this gun fall into?
 
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Who is it built by? Specs don't look bad but a lot depends on who made the parts, not just what they say the parts are supposed to be. You can buy a good quality, entry level AR for less than $600 right now.
 
As crazy said, it would be helpful to know the manufacture.

The barrel is a question mark. It's not that cheaper barrels don't work fine, but I certainly wouldn't pay the same amount for rifle with a phosphated 4140 tube as I would a nitrided 4150.

Also should know what the handguard is. "free float aluminum quad rail" could be anything from a $35 eBay special to a high quality Troy or MI piece.

Lastly, I would seriously consider going with a mid length. Carbine gas belongs on 10"-14.5" barrels, not 16 inchers.
 
who made the barrel? That is critical.

Also, I would be more likely to want a 1:8 or 1:7 twist.
 
Everytime I see a "picatinny gas block", it just screams cheap, slapped together, lowest end/highest profit margin upper. These uppers generally use the cheapest $80 barrels, $40 uppers, least expensive generic BCG's, Chinese made rails, etc. They also rarely have a price point lower than a legit lower end AR such as S&W Sport. With the AR market in such a glut of competition, there's zero reason to scrimp on quality. Especially when quality comes at the same price as the "extra parts slap'em together for a quick buck" guns.

Will it work? Probably. Could you do better for the money? Most certainly.
 
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Why? The S&W OR which is a step above the Sport has a railed gas block.
Click to expand...

C'mon, you know what I mean, dont split hairs. We all know the type of culprits I'm referring too. The cheapest lower than receiver height, generic, likely Chinese made gas blocks that come on "gun show" type rifles.
 
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A 16" carbine gas system, govt profile barrel is going to be harsher recoiling and more front heavy than a midlength gas system light profile.

The govt profile doesn't do anything for you unless you have a M203 grenade launcher.

The midlength gas system puts the gas port 2" closer to the muzzle, which reduces the operating pressure and makes for gentler unlocking.

As far as railed hand guards, unless you know why you need one it's a waste of money and unnecessary weight up front where you don't generally want extra weight. Just say no.

I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to 1:9 twist, they work ok for a wide range of bullet weights, but I haven't found 1:7 to be horrible with 55gr loads either.

I would want a hardchromed (or nitrided) bore and chamber. The costing not only makes the bore more resistant to corrosion, it protects the throat and you'll get longer life out of the barrel. The most important thing is that the coating is less sticky than steel and improves extraction reliability. The AR doesn't have a lot of reserve power to extract cartridges and a stuck case will keep you from shooting until you clear it.

BSW
 
Jackal has a good point. It does follow the format of "another AR slapped together". Not that they are bad, but one of the run of the mill offshoots post frenzy.

Be curious to see whose it actually is and where the components came from. Hard to beat the deals that are popping up for recognized manufacturers though.
 
"•Lower Specs:
•-Lower receiver made from T6-7075 aluminum, mil-spec hard coted
•-Mil-spec lower parts kit
•-M4 6 position adjustable stock
•-Aluminum enhanced trigger guard
•-1-30rd magazine
Click to expand...
This describes almost every lower on earth, but it does not guarantee that your lower or LPK will be in spec (dimensionally). Check that the castle nut is staked well, and check that the receiver extension is 7075. "Mil spec" refers to the dimensions (vs. commercial), not the material. A lot of cheaper RE's are 6061, but the proper way to go is 7075. I wouldn't get wrapped around the axel about either one, but know what you're paying for... I see no reason not to use 7075 myself, given how cheap they are now. Overall, I would stick to known brands for the parts, whether you buy complete or build it yourself.

•-Carbine length, free float aluminum quadrail
•-Carbine length gas system
•-16", 9 twist, .750 Government barrel, black phosphate
•-A2 flash hider
•-Picitinny gas block
•-.223/5.56 bolt carrier, staked to mil-spec, chrome lined key/carrier, forward assist serrations 8620 material carrier/9310 material bolt, ISO 9001:2000 Certified"
Click to expand...
- What kind of quad rail?
- Carbine-length gas makes little sense to me now, unless you're building a clone or an SBR. Plain and simple, mid-length is just smoother-shooting all the way around. Carbine will work fine if that's all that's offered in a setup that you like, but I would look for mid-length first.
- The barrel steel is not mentioned, and neither is the lining or if it's magnetic particle inspected or high pressure tested (MPI/HPT). Again, this is where you stick to a known brand. The barrel is one of two places you don't want to skimp on an AR15. 1:9 twist is also limiting you to shorter/lighter bullets.
- A2 is fine, gas block makes no sense to me... If you're already using a free-float handguard, why not get a low profile gas block, and have a handguard that extends past it. Gives you more hand space and a longer sight radius.
- The other place you don't want to skimp is the bolt... 9310 might make for a great bolt material, but there are well-proven C158 bolts out there. It doesn't make sense to me not to get one of those. Once again, this is where sticking to a known quality brand helps.

Specs only tell half the story. Manufacturer and quality control of those parts makes a big difference. Looking at the specs, that rifle would be a mediocre build at best. No lining or treatment in the barrel, no mention of barrel steel, no mention of QC assurances, same story on the bolt. Those two parts are the heart of the rifle, and generally not significantly more expensive than lower-end competitors.
 
Thanks for the education. The above posts point out to me how little I know about AR building. This gun was part of a group buy offer, made by a local gun builder that has a good reputation. I'll probably pass on it mainly because of some unknowns raise by you guys. What little I know leads me to want a piston operated AR anyway.
 
What little I know leads me to want a piston operated AR anyway.
Click to expand...

Think long and hard before you go that route. In short, op rod ARs are a solution to a non-existent problem, they create new problems, are more expensive, and are proprietary. They also aren't compatible with the majority of handguards out there.

Stoner system, OTOH, works fine, and is standardized. Any upper, barrel, hand guard, bolt carrier or bolt from any manufacturer is interchangeable.

If op rod AR uppers were worth it, at least one of my eleven ARs would have one.
 
I think if I were going for a piston AR, I would be going for the Faxon ARAK..no carrier tilt there because it uses a proprietary carrier and spring system.
 
Those specs scream "cheap build, AKA crappy parts" to me.

In my experience when builders/manufacturers give minimal information its because they dont want you to know the complete info.

Aluminum free float quad rail..... Which brand? How hard would it to say "Daniel Defense" or "BCM" etc.. when describing the rail? But if Im using the cheapest Chinese rail I can find Im going to describe it as "Aluminum free float rail".

Why so little information about the barrel? Chrome lined? Melonited? What type of steel?

Picitinny railed gas block again just screams cheapest Chinese part I could buy.
 
USP9, if this is a good deal or not depends on what the price is. The specs you listed sound like they could be ok if the price is really low (like under $500)

briansmithwins I think has the right idea about the mid-length gas system, and the light weight barrel. I see no advantage to the heavy barrel as it's only heavy on the muzzle end (under then hand guard it's skinny).

I like the 1:9 twist but I don't shoot the really heavy bullets either mainly just 55gr.

Here is an example of what a good bargain priced upper might look like:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/69...ghtweight-contour-barrel?cm_vc=ProductFinding

You might also want to consider building the gun yourself, I've built 2 AR-15s (one for my wife, one for my dad) and it was alot of fun and not that difficult (believe me if I can figure out how to do it, anybody can)

Edited to add:

Also I'm not a huge fan of the quad-rail. I had one for a while and didn't like it, too many sharp edges and it felt bulky. I went with the basic Magpul MOE hand guard. I like this better because I can attach add-on rail segments wherever I want them anyway
 
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That parts list tells the specs when they are good, but it is what it leaves out or refers to vaguely (the term "mil spec" for example) that worries me. Particularly when they don't tell what grade steel the barrel is made of, what kind of testing has been done on it if any, and whether or not it is chrome lined or nitrided. The barrel is the most important single part on the rifle I would say. The bolt is next... and even the specs listed on it aren't the greatest. 9310 steel on the bolt is a departure from the mil specs, which call for Carpenter 158. I have heard the metallurgical argument for this material, but why I prefer it mainly boils down to it being part of a tried and true system.

I would pass on this, even if it is really cheap. If you're going to add just one AR to the collection, make it a good one. There are plenty of great deals on complete uppers and rifles with very solid specs from Colt, Spikes, BCM, and PSA CMV, premium, or CHF models right now.
 
9310 steel on the bolt is a departure from the mil specs, which call for Carpenter 158. I have heard the metallurgical argument for this material, but why I prefer it mainly boils down to it being part of a tried and true system.
Click to expand...

C158 is a proprietary alloy from the Carpenter steel co. 9310 is an AISI nickel chromoly steel that's actually a little bit stronger, just less forgiving on the heat treatment. 50 years ago, the broader tempering range of C158 made it a better choice. Today, the thermal accuracy that even a small outfit can achieve means 9310 is superior.
 
The link you posted says that if enough people buy them the price will drop to $500, I would considering getting it at that price if it were me. If it were much more than that I could build my own rifle with the light weight mid length setup. For example check this out:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...ht-weight-chrome-lined-premium-rifle-kit.html

That's everything you need but the lower receiver (which you can get for about $50 sometimes even less)

http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/stripped-blem-open-lower-ar-15-a3/
 
It's not an MI.

The rail looks like a cheap Chinese one, see the alignment of the top rail between the gas block and receiver rails and the general fit/finsih.

Also, the castle nut doesn't look like it's staked. It may be staked on the other side, but every decent AR I've seen was staked in all the possible spots, if I remember right. I know my BCM and S&W are.
 
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