Store bought self defense ammunition

In 45 I use 230 gold dot - loaded by Speer
10mm 165 gold dot- loaded by Underwood
380 critical defense whatever -loaded by hornady
Those are the only calibers I currently carry.
I've used gold dots for years , I know there's newer stuff but I still like the gold dot.
As for rifle and revolver rounds, I like my home made ammo is as good but actually better than most any manufacturer , but I don't use that stuff for social work.

Armored farmer said:

I like my handloads, and often carry them in my .357 guns. I dont load any .380 ir 9mm and very little .45acp, so that is factory ammo.
Based on my results from deer hunting with handguns, I prefer hollow points.
I do considerable testing of ammo, to see what works for me, and what doesnt. If you want to know what didn't, keep reading. If you would like to think you have great ammo because the box says CRITICAL DEFENSE....stop reading here.

This one wouldn't fire despite multiple attempts:
View attachment 880711
This one failed to penetrate a two liter soda bottle filled with water. I found the bullet rattling around inside the bottle when I was cleaning up after the session.
View attachment 880713
That satisfied me as to what Not to buy for my .380. They should change their name to Trivial Defense

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That right there, folks, is what's known as the fallacy of Hasty Generalization.

A 2 litter soda bottle is hardly a scientific test.

One round is quite a paltry sample.

.380 is a notoriously underperforming caliber anyway. Most hollowpoints have poor penetration and most FMJ rounds grossly overpenetrate.


So from this one round - I'm sorry, two rounds - in one load in one caliber (and a notoriously underperforming one at that) we deduce that all Critical Defense rounds suck. In every load in every caliber.

bdickens said:

That right there, folks, is what's known as the fallacy of Hasty Generalization.

A 2 litter soda bottle is hardly a scientific test.

One round is quite a paltry sample.

.380 is a notoriously underperforming caliber anyway. Most hollowpoints have poor penetration and most FMJ rounds grossly overpenetrate.


So from this one round - I'm sorry, two rounds - in one load in one caliber (and a notoriously underperforming one at that) we deduce that all Critical Defense rounds suck. In every load in every caliber.

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<<Snide remark redacted>>

I didnt make any such broad claim to any load or caliber. I also forewarned Critical Defense fans like you.
My sole purpose for posting my experiences is for the benefit of fellow thr members and friends.

Armored farmer said:

I didnt make any such broad claim to any load or caliber. I also forewarned Critical Defense fans like you.
My sole purpose for posting my experiences is for the benefit of fellow thr members and friends.

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Fair enough. You didn't make any such sweeping claim. Your testing methodology, however, is suspect. It doesn't resemble any accepted scientific standard. In testing that does, the particular round in question actually performed fairly decently. For a .380.

Third, I'm not a "Critical Defense fan." I'm a fan of solid reasoning, sound logic and objective facts. I don't really give a rodent's hindquarters what you, or anyone else for that matter, feeds through his mousegun. I'm only pointing out the fallacy in your reasoning.

That is not a value judgment on you as a person. I'm sure you are a fine, upstanding and intelligent individual who anyone would do well to call a friend. For some reason, you appear to be reacting as though I've made a personal attack instead of questioning your reasoning in this one specific case.

Your experience is what it is. But it is extremely limited; hardly what one would call statistically relevant. You are free to have any opinion you wish. I would want to caution anyone else against forming their own based solely on one person's single, very limited experience with a particular cartridge.

Well, after all that, I will directly answer the OP with this:

I have no real hard preference. In my opinion, many people concern themselves far too much about such things.

I used to carry the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P. Reasoning was that NYPD, among others, had reported being very satisfied with it's performance.

I have since decided to move down to a standard pressure round for reasons given elsewhere. Rather than engage in the futile search for the one true Holy Grail Round (because I know there is no such) I looked at what I could find in regards to reported results on the street and then looked at the gel test data for those rounds.

Then I went through the tables & listed out all the similar performers & made a list. Separated by bullet weight, I listed my preferred choices, secondary and then will do if I can't find any of the others.

What I have loaded up with right now is the SIG V-Crown 124gr. That was actually my #3 choice, but it was roughly HALF the cost of my #1, which the Academy I went to was out of at the time.

We are so fortunate to have a counselor who can evaluate our testing methods and opinions.

Hornady is good and consistent. Less expansion with more penetration which I like, except Gold Dots do it better. If Speer went away, I would carry Hornady.

I only like Sig in a very specific caliber. It’s nothing I even consider in 9,40 or 45.

All just my opinion.

I have only seen good results from Sig in 357 Sig. There might be others but I just don’t like Sig ammo for the big 3 calibers. It’s probably effective, I just like several others more.

brutus51 said:

Hornady and Sig lines.

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I havent used any hornady carry ammo since the original TAP in 40 back 5 or maybe more years ago. I had a bad primer and refused to carry it anymore, although I shot 10x as much since that primer and it ran fine. I practiced with them and I'm down to a box or so. also, and maybe not important to some, the black coating picked up and embedded grit. (The second problem likely wouldn't be a problem unless you reload and even then after a few tumblings the coating is gone ).

Back when 10mm was more rare and only /norma (when you could find a box)/winchester talons/and hornady custom were the only options for defense ammo we usually had, I carried and shot a lot of the hornady in my ccw. The custom was the only affordable option for a heavy (200gr) bullet once the Norma dried up. I still load the xtps for hunting. I switched to winchester Silvertips for carry when they were available.

I bought a case of the Sig elite v crown (IIRC on the name) 45 ammo when I bought my last Sig 220 and found out that the magazine wouldnt accept much of my hollow points. I googled which ammo fit and it seemed that many had mixed results but the 2 or 3 I had didnt work (golden sabers, hornady custom, hydroshocks and a couple others Likely not even made now) so I bought the Sig ammo since I figured they used the 220 and 320 as the test guns for it. It does work, as do gold-dots and HST in mine. The sig ammo proved to be the least accurate (but still very accurate) in mine so I dropped it after the 500 rds. I don't carry any .45 but if I did I'd use the gold dots as I have used them on deer (in 10mm) and they performed well. They expanded more and didnt over penetrate on deer like the XTP does. I think for sd they would be better. For hunting and woods carry though I use the XTP. I figure in a .45 that a poorly expanded hollow point will still have a bigger diameter than a great expanding 9mm. I choose not to carry 45 simply because of lack of capacity and size of all my 45s.

brutus51 said:

Wish you guys would chill.

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For whatever reason the carry ammo others choose is a topic that arouses passionate feelings for some folks. Lots of people know what is best and what is best may change with the next magazine article or advertisement.
I choose to carry my own hand loads and accept the risks of doing so, because I believe they are infinitesimally small. I suggest everyone carry good hollow point ammo that functions reliably in their gun but it is none of my concern what anyone chooses.

I don't overthink it. A HP from an American major brand like Win, Rem, Hornady, Federal- that functions reliably in the gun in question. And lots of practice with cheap ammo.

230 gr Federal HST +p in my 45s.
124 gr Federal HST +p in my 9mms.
158 gr Speer Gold Dot in my 357’s.
I plan to use 200 gr HSTs morning in my 10mms once I can find them for a reasonable price and I’ve tested them for reliability.

HSTs have an excellent track record in gel testing, which depending on your feelings about gel tests can be a good thing or fairly irrelevant.

In testing HSTs I have had single digit extreme spreads on 5 shot groups pretty consistently.

Muzzle velocities from the above listed 45’s came out at a very consistent 850 FPS from a 3.3” XDs, and 925 FPS from an HK45. The 9mm ammo was a very consistent 1150 FPS from a 3.3” HK P30SK, and 1210 FPS from a VP9.

All loads tested were shot two handed at 25 yards and showed good accuracy, and I have no doubt a rested gun would show very good results.

brutus51 said:

I'm beginning to lean in that direction, all my hand loads are tailor made for the pistol I'm shooting.
in .45ACP my self defense loads are different for my full size 5" compared to the 4.25" commander length.
Full length guns have adjustable sights so developing loads for them is easy.
Fixed sight commanders require a bit more work but once a good combination is found it's hard to find factory ammo that can compete.
I don't reload 9 punybellum and only carry one when it's hot enough for a micro compact.
My other choice for CCW is the 38Super but finding factory ammo isn't easy. I've decided to work up a good load using Hornadys 147gr. XTP.
and that will become my carry ammo for that caliber.

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i loaded up some 230 grain xtps for defense and tested them on water jugs. on bare jugs, penetration was one jug and perfect expansion. when i put two layers of blue jean material in front, the bullet went through all four jugs and disappeared into the backstop.

you may want to consider a bullet with a plastic plug.

luck,

murf

I recently got some S&B 115 grain hollowpoints which are 13$ a 50 round box, bulk. It will be interesting to put them thru their paces.
I for one, am a bit of a Hornady & Dillon Precision whore. I have always found their products to be of the best quality generally available.
So when I do buy dedicated S/D ammo, it's usually Critical Defense.

Fine Figure of a Man said:

For whatever reason

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I dont really get it either. I wouldnt feel much less well armed with FMJ or hard cast really. I've killed plenty of deer in the past with the same. I also carried Remington umc hollow points many years ago because they were cheapest and I could buy then at walmart with my Ramen noodles while we were putting my wife though 4 years of college . If one practices to hit where they are aiming they will be fine.

murf said:

when i put two layers of blue jean material in front, the bullet went through all four jugs and disappeared into the backstop.

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I've had the same experience with the thin leather of a deer hide or the thinner leather (on the head) and thick fur and skull of a beef. Very deep penetration and little but pretty consistent expansion. Perfect for hunting if bigger tougher game is around.

One shot of the S&B with denim & fabric was a full pass through with no expansion The other in bare gel yawed or tumbled and left a crazy big wound track. Technically, neither expanded

Dibbs said:

I recently got some S&B 115 grain hollowpoints which are 13$ a 50 round box, bulk. It will be interesting to put them thru their paces.

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I shot a single lemon with a Golden Saber 185gr +p out of a Glock 21. Not scientific and it only tells us that Sabers expand very quickly but it smelled great!

Hartkopf said:

One shot of the S&B with denim & fabric was a full pass through with no expansion The other in bare gel yawed or tumbled and left a crazy big wound track. Technically, neither expanded View attachment 880923

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115 grain S&B hollow point sure expanded thru clothing in that well-known fatal shooting in Florida several years ago -- but it penetrated only about 5" when it was fired into unobstructed upper torso.

QED said:

115 grain S&B hollow point sure expanded thru clothing in that well-known fatal shooting in Florida several years ago -- but it penetrated only about 5" when it was fired into unobstructed upper torso.

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That’s a really long time and designs might have changed? Idk but I do like to test new lots of whatever my favorite ammo is.

Hartkopf said:

That’s a really long time and designs might have changed? Idk but I do like to test new lots of whatever my favorite ammo is.

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The referenced incident was in 2012; it's doubtful that S&B made major changes in design of that 115 grain hollow point since then. But -- sometimes even just 5" penetration (in tissue) may be enough for a well-placed, execution style, unobstructed shot.