Alternative to a gun safe?

I have guns in Browning and Cannon safes. Neither brands construction materials has caused rust. As far as rust goes due to high humidity, I have a warming rod and hygrometer in each to control and monitor humidity.

I use the small gun safes, I just put a few of the Silica Gel desiccant packs I get in packages when I have stuff mailed to me. Though up until lately, I use to use the guns at least once a month, and would clean them each time.

The problem is not the safe, it's the humidity. You need some kind of descant or a humidity control rod. I use rechargeable models that when they show they are ready you just plug them in until the are ready again. As for saving money ANYTHING to slow down a smash and grab is better than nothing. Some kind of cabinet that can be locked, tool box, ect. Something that can be locked and bolted down to slow down the average dope head.

I have a cannon safe. I also have a goldenrod that bakes out humidity.

Just use a steel cabinet without the gypsum and carpet lining.

A fair number of safes use wet paper as part of the insulation to get a better fire rating. That makes the inside of the safe pretty humid. I have one such safe. I can tell you from experience that it is a bad idea to put uncoated steel in that safe. It will rust.

3Crows said:

No, that is not true, it has been shown and demonstrated that many, if not all of the safes commonly available contain materials, the sheetrock/fire board and cheap carpet, that off gas corrosive agents that then mix with the moisture in the air to cause rust. By reducing moisture in the air the chain is partially broken but the corrosive gases are still there. I have seen too many rusted guns in big box safes even with the humidifiers.

I am really looking for an alternative though if the manufacturer fo the safe made a guarantee about the materials then maybe---.

Click to expand...

I have never seen a gun safe do this. Have some info on this so people know which gun safes ruin guns? Or is this "my buddy told me" kind of thing?

labnoti said:

Just use a steel cabinet without the gypsum and carpet lining.

Click to expand...

An in-between option is made by Secure-It. It’s heavier than a steel cabinet (like Stack-On), but not as heavy as a true safe. It’s also not airtight so it’s the same humidity as it’s environment (mine’s indoors), but it offers no fire protection.

It’s modular and can be assembled in a closet and mounted to floor & walls. Cost is between a cabinet & a safe too.

Sorry if I seem like a salesman, but it solved a lot of my difficulties.

Secure-It has a good concept, but their pricing and distribution is very disappointing. Their 14 gauge cabinet is a little bit thicker than Stack-On's 18 gauge, but it snaps together whereas Stack-On cabinets are welded. While 14 gauge is thicker, it's still thin enough to zip open in seconds with a power tool. The snap-together build was intended to make Secure-It cabinets affordable to ship, but Secure-It still charges over $80 to ship their lightest unit. Considering that it also has a $650 price, the value proposition is just totally lost. So they're not a bargain, but I do like the cabinets and their organizers.

The Stack-On cabinets are widely distributed to Tractor Supply, Sportsmans Warehouse and many other places. I picked one up locally that's the same size as Secure-It's most affordable unit and I paid $120 and no shipping. I put my own Akro-bin wall plate inside it and I could do the same thing five times for the cost of a Secure-It and shipping.

Indeed I would rather have 10 Stack-On's than one Liberty, but I don't have enough guns to fill them. There are plenty of people here that can't say that. Nevertheless, I don't think Stack-On's are the best solution for larger inventories. Secure-It has some larger cabinets in their Mil-Spec line but they're costly. If I had 25 or more guns I would rather start with a larger cabinet from Sandusky Lee. At some point, it makes more sense to have a secure room, but you still need racks, wall organizers, or some other way to hold your inventory other than a pile on the floor. Secure-It's system is all based on Akro-bin panels. What I think they do particularly well is the rifle rests that accommodate large optics. A lot of the traditional safe rests don't work well with the height of modern rifles with large optics, pistol grips and extending magazines.

I'm thinking of adding a security door to a walk in closet that I already use for ammo storage. The closet is conditioned, so should be okay w.r.t. temp and humidity as long as I leave a gap for air flow to the A/C return register.

I use a Golden Rod dehumidifier and 3 box desiccants in my safe - hot and humid Florida - and I need to recharge them every few months. Every gun is also in a silicone sock; not just for rust prevention but also for preventing stock dings; over 17 years now in Florida, no rust. Started with a National Security (pre Liberty ownership) and now a Liberty after the movers dropped my National. newer models have electrical plugs and even USB ports inside for things like this.

here's some alternatives:
https://safetyhub.net/hidden-gun-cabinet-guide/

https://www.marineapproved.com/hidden-gun-storage/

https://www.pinterest.com/john316reyes/secret-gun-storage/

https://www.skilledsurvival.com/how-to-hide-your-guns-in-plain-sight/

Bought larger desiccant packets from Academy and put them in each of my safes/cabinets. Every couple months when the indicators on them indicate it's required they go on an old cookie tray and into the oven for a few hours on low with the door propped open a crack. Then back into the safes/cabinets. That and the fact that my gun room is in an climate controlled room in my house I have never had a rust issue despite the Alabama humidity.

Currently it’s 17% humidity in my area. Have had guns in safes for past 25 years and haven’t noted any rust on/in them. They get pulled out occasionally, wiped down and put back in. No dehumidifier/no desiccant packs. Safes are fire rated. Not sure of internal build components used. Maybe they’re old enough now that they have off gassed everything.

Frulk said:

Currently it’s 17% humidity in my area. Have had guns in safes for past 25 years and haven’t noted any rust on/in them. They get pulled out occasionally, wiped down and put back in. No dehumidifier/no desiccant packs. Safes are fire rated. Not sure of internal build components used. Maybe they’re old enough now that they have off gassed everything.

Click to expand...

I used to live in Northern NV with low humidity like that; I wasn't concerned about rusr, but I WAS concerned about my wood stocks; they got a good wipe down with Howard's every few months (more if shot)

George P. I had considered mentioning care of wood stocks in my reply above. I have a lot of them. It’s the PRIMARY reason why I chose not to artificially lower the humidity in the safes.

I suppose from that perspective it puts me at the other end of the OPs original concern.

Frulk said:

George P. I had considered mentioning care of wood stocks in my reply above. I have a lot of them. It’s the PRIMARY reason why I chose not to artificially lower the humidity in the safes.

I suppose from that perspective it puts me at the other end of the OPs original concern.

Click to expand...

At 17%, you're actually too low on the humidity. IIRC, NRA museum and most others like to keep valuables in the 50% range, maybe a tad lower.

For my 2¢ the best alternative to an RSC is a dedicated "gun closet."
Basically a dedicated space in the house for storage.
The level of fire and theft protection is entirely up to you.

Pick a closet, gut it to studs, install mineral wool insulation, then cover with cemetitious board or Durock panels. Pull the door frame and install a hollow metal frame in the opening, then install a solid core door with a deadbolt. Now you have a closet with a bit more than 90 minutes of fire protection, and does not look that much different from any other closet, other than being locked more securely.
Inside of the closet is not going to be much different, environmentally, than the inside of the house. If your floors and trim are not warping, you are going to be pretty good in the closet, too.

I spent 26 years living in a central Texas County defined by the bottomlands at the confluence of two rivers, a "dry" day would be an RH of 40%. I saw about every possible way to store firearms, from truck racks and hard cases, to metal cabinets, and full-on safes. Never saw a single one that "rusted' a gun from "outgassing." The rust was almost always human sweat related.

The moisture in gypsum plaster (the core of gyspum board) is anion water, and does not chemically bind up to things until the gypsum is heated to high levels (like above 350ºF). If you house or you safe is at 350ºF, you have other issues than mild surface rust.

Here are some that use an old refrigerator as the starting point.

3Crows said:

If the safe uses gypsum board as a fire protection then it will hold moisture and off gas sulphur and possibly formaldehyde. The drywall contains and absorbs moisture which then becomes the carrier for the corrosive chemicals. It is not that the safe is more humid than the ambient atmosphere but that the material from which it is made cause corrosion in the presence of moisture contained within the drywall material and carpet liner. Thus you have to use methods to reduce the humidity below ambient because the closed safe concentrates the corrosive agents.

Drywall composition:

• Paper and/or fiberglass fibers
• Plasticizers
• Starch
• Finely ground mica crystal as an accelerant
• EDTA or other chelating agents
• Anti-mildew agents, such as boric acid
• Wax emulsion or silanes to hinder water absorption
• Potassium sulfate

If my guns are going to rust in a safe I would as soon they be stolen. I was hoping for creative solutions, home made gun rooms, hiding in plain sight, steel doors, rather than a big box store safe like a Canon or Cabela's other of the same ilk. My (walkout type) basement workshop can be armored and I can get a steel commercial door. True enough fire is still a problem but at least they would be secured from casual theft.

Or a commercial gun safe which is known to be constructed not using drywall and other material containing acids, sulphur and materials that absorb and off gas chemical laden H2O.

Click to expand...

<shrug> kind of what I figured, there is no info on this then.
For those who do not want to spend the cash for a gun safe there are other ways to secure them. Anything is better than nothing of course. For those who want to buy a safe made for guns they are great and your guns will not rust IF you follow the instructions when you buy a safe.

Frulk said:

Currently it’s 17% humidity in my area. Have had guns in safes for past 25 years and haven’t noted any rust on/in them. They get pulled out occasionally, wiped down and put back in. No dehumidifier/no desiccant packs. Safes are fire rated. Not sure of internal build components used. Maybe they’re old enough now that they have off gassed everything.

Click to expand...

The biggest "problem" is found in places where a safe is put in a garage. This is quite common especially with larger safes. When the temp around the safe varies a lot and there is enough moisture in the air, this is where problems can happen. It's got zero to do with what the safe used as protection. ALL gun safes will come with instructions to protect from this. Either electronic, like Golden Rod, or descant. I have just used the rechargeable descant for many decades now. Stuff never seems to stop working. For decades I used a few I got from Midway. Stuff is in a bag with an indicator. When it was "time" take the bag out, put it in the oven for a few hours, back in. Several years ago I bought some off Amazon the have a plug in the bottom. When they say it's time you just plug a cord into them and they get warm and when the indicator says it's time they go back in. One of my safe's is in the garage here and it does need them recharged far more often. It of course makes a huge difference where you live. Desert country where it's dryer and hotter are less problematic. I live in the great, WET, PNW, and temp can vary a lot along with a LOT of moister so we have to be far more vigilant of course.