Unique powder 9mm Load Data

Status
Not open for further replies.
mdi said:
Any time a single load is listed, by anyone and not just Alliant, it is a max load and should be reduced by at least 10%. If in doubt when comparing load data between different manuals, err on the safe side and use the lowest starting load. Nobody is gonna call you a sissy or chicken for starting low...
Click to expand...

Yeah, not worried about the sissy thing, I'd rather keep both hands. Had my first out of battery fire today, a good reminder that s**t happens. Hands stained black. BUT I was proud that my training made me stop befote pulling the trigger again. It was the first shot of 4 shot draw/rapid fire drills.
 
peeplwtchr said:
LiveLife said:
So perhaps test 4.5 gr, 4.8 gr, 5.1 gr and 5.4 gr and see what accuracy trend is ... 1.130"-1.135" OAL
Click to expand...
this is now my plan!
Click to expand...
My guess would be, depending on the recoil spring rate of your pistol, you may start to get reliable slide cycling with lower powder charges but higher 5.1 and 5.4 gr charges will produce greater accuracy.

If you are hesitant about using shorter 1.130"-1.135" for OAL instead of 1.150", consider the following.

index.php


Since we know 5.8 gr of Unique fills the case to around 0.180" below case mouth, using 0.750" for average resized case length, we have:
  • Top of powder charge below case mouth = Case length - Max case fill
  • 0.180" = 0.750" - Max case fill
So Max case fill = 0.750" - 0.180" = 0.570"

And since Berry's 115 gr RN is 0.550" in length,

OAL = Max case fill + Bullet length = 0.570" + 0.55" = 1.120"

So 1.120" OAL with Berry's 115 gr RN will produce 100% case fill with 5.8 gr of Unique. And loading Berry's 115 gr RN to 1.130"-1.135" with 5.4 gr of Unique will produce slightly more than 0.010" air gap but in my book, good enough case fill powder charge.

And if you reference Alliant load data for 115 gr Speer CPRN that lists 6.0 gr as max charge for 1.135" OAL, chances are it's max case fill charge.
  • 9mm 115 gr Speer CPRN Unique OAL 1.135" Max 6.0 gr (1217 fps)
 
Last edited:
So why didn't we just start at 10% reduction of 5.4 gr using 1.135" OAL?

Well, based on my experience Berry's regular plated bullets (And many other regular plated bullets) produced accuracy when referencing lead load data and up to around mid-range jacketed load data and some regular plated bullets started to lose accuracy at higher charges.

And since you are using Berry's regular plated bullets, I suggested working up from mid range lead load data for heavier 120 gr Lead RN. It may very well be that you get an accurate load above 5.4 gr.

But I think it's a good practice (Especially if you are working with W231/HP-38 and faster burning powders) to conduct powder work up from start charge in case there's an accurate lighter target load that could be identified. And unless you conduct powder work up from start charge, you won't know that.

Looking forward to your range report.
 
Since 9mm is a high pressure cartridge with a small case capacity it is important to pay attention to the bullet used.. Try to stick close to the recipe provided for the bullet you are using by the manufacturer if you are loading to the max charge. Lyman 50 shows a .5 grain difference for max for two different 115 grain bullets.
 
I like unique because of the case fill and there is zero chance of a double charge. My lyman book lists 5.8 as a max and there is very little case volume left. I run a shorter 1.090 oal but my bullets are the 115 rmr match winners. I like a higher charge of unique to help it burn cleaner and it's not terribly snappy in a full size pistol.
 
6.5gr sounds hot for 115gr.
7 is definitely too much. I'll use 7 under a 90gr jacketed bullet.

LiveLife said:
My guess would be, depending on the recoil spring rate of your pistol, you may start to get reliable slide cycling with lower powder charges but higher 5.1 and 5.4 gr charges will produce greater accuracy.

If you are hesitant about using shorter 1.130"-1.135" for OAL instead of 1.150", consider the following.

index.php


Since we know 5.8 gr of Unique fills the case to around 0.180" below case mouth, using 0.750" for average resized case length, we have:
  • Top of powder charge below case mouth = Case length - Max case fill
  • 0.180" = 0.750" - Max case fill
So Max case fill = 0.750" - 0.180" = 0.570"

And since Berry's 115 gr RN is 0.550" in length,

OAL = Max case fill + Bullet length = 0.570" + 0.55" = 1.120"

So 1.120" OAL with Berry's 115 gr RN will produce 100% case fill with 5.8 gr of Unique. And loading Berry's 115 gr RN to 1.130"-1.135" with 5.4 gr of Unique will produce slightly more than 0.010" air gap but in my book, good enough case fill powder charge.

And if you reference Alliant load data for 115 gr Speer CPRN that lists 6.0 gr as max charge for 1.135" OAL, chances are it's max case fill charge.
  • 9mm 115 gr Speer CPRN Unique OAL 1.135" Max 6.0 gr (1217 fps)
Click to expand...
And thats why I like unique in 9mm, you're not accidentally going to double charge one.
 
Only thing me and Rangemasters came up with. Worked fine afterwards. It's 22lr, so prolly a crappy bullet. Shooting a PPQ M2 22lr.. I actually saw the slide not cycle as well, craploads if smoke come out of the slide ejection port.
 
Hi All-

So I got the RCBS Bullet Pulling Die, and the .358(?) Collett, and disassembled the hot rounds which I loaded as a 1st batch. If you have not used this die before, it's excellent. Well made, and works like a charm!

I examined the pulled bullets to see what my crimp looks like. I think this is very good? It only took about 1/32 or less of a full turn of the lever to tighten the the collett enough to pull the bullet out.

Would you say that my crimp is light enough on these? I know the lighting sucks, so I took a few.
 

Attachments

  • 20200917_170141.jpg
    20200917_170141.jpg
    65.4 KB · Views: 26
  • 20200917_170203.jpg
    20200917_170203.jpg
    55.3 KB · Views: 25
  • 20200917_170205.jpg
    20200917_170205.jpg
    60.7 KB · Views: 22
I use 4.7 grains of Unique for my 124-125 grain plated and lead loads with great success. I use 4.1 grains of Unique for my 147 grain lead and plated boolits. Be careful and check your filled cases for uniformity, by comparing the powder height in the filled cases, because Unique doesn’t meter uniformly for most folks.
 
Mr. Zorg said:
There's a lot of 9X19mm load data available at this link including the discontinued MidwayUSA LoadMap data. There's more stuff in other directories as well.

http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Caliber Specific Load Data/
Click to expand...
LiveLife said:
So why didn't we just start at 10% reduction of 5.4 gr using 1.135" OAL?

Well, based on my experience Berry's regular plated bullets (And many other regular plated bullets) produced accuracy when referencing lead load data and up to around mid-range jacketed load data and some regular plated bullets started to lose accuracy at higher charges.

And since you are using Berry's regular plated bullets, I suggested working up from mid range lead load data for heavier 120 gr Lead RN. It may very well be that you get an accurate load above 5.4 gr.

But I think it's a good practice (Especially if you are working with W231/HP-38 and faster burning powders) to conduct powder work up from start charge in case there's an accurate lighter target load that could be identified. And unless you conduct powder work up from start charge, you won't know that.

Looking forward to your range report.
Click to expand...

I shot my first batch today; I loaded 4.7 and 5 grain batches. I shot @15 yds off a sandbag. I got fliers, no clue why. The left side is all 4.7, and the right is 5.0. From top target down are VP9, Canik and PPQ. The PPQ either doesn't like .356 bullets and/or the charge. I wonder if the 3.5 inch barrel has something to do with it. The others are 4 and 4.5 I think. I wasn't shooting very good today, but not bad enough for the results I got. Maybe I'll ladder down from 4.7 and see what happens.
 

Attachments

  • 20200919_094237.jpg
    20200919_094237.jpg
    170 KB · Views: 22
  • 20200919_094241.jpg
    20200919_094241.jpg
    170.3 KB · Views: 23
peeplwtchr said:
I shot ... 4.7 and 5 gr @15 yds off a sandbag. I got fliers, no clue why.

Maybe I'll ladder down from 4.7 and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Have you shot known factory ammo to compare your test groups with?

If test round shot worse than factory, I would test 5.2 and 5.4 gr loads and see if group size improves.

And if following is applicable to your rounds, retest your 4.7 and 5.0 gr loads after adjusting your taper crimp die.
peeplwtchr said:
I examined the pulled bullets to see what my crimp looks like
Click to expand...
I think you are using too much taper crimp to indent bullets like that. Don't use too much taper crimp or kiss your accuracy goodbye as you could reduce bullet diameter and brass spring back will reduce neck tension.

Have you measured some dummy rounds (no powder, no primer) before and after feeding from the magazine to see if you can measure significant bullet setback??

For .356" sized bullet, you want to be around .378" at case mouth (.356" + .022"), essentially returning case mouth flare back flat on the bullet with slight more depending on the headstamp/thickness of case wall. (And .378" taper crimp won't hardly indent .356" sized bullet)
 
Last edited:
LiveLife said:
Have you shot known factory ammo to compare your test groups with?

If test round shot worse than factory, I would test 5.2 and 5.4 gr loads and see if group size improves.

And if following is applicable to your rounds, retest your 4.7 and 5.0 gr loads after adjusting your taper crimp die.

I think you are using too much taper crimp to indent bullets like that. Don't use too much taper crimp or kiss your accuracy goodbye as you could reduce bullet diameter and brass spring back will reduce neck tension.

Have you measured some dummy rounds (no powder, no primer) before and after feeding from the magazine to see if you can measure significant bullet setback??

For .356" sized bullet, you want to be around .378" at case mouth (.356" + .022"), essentially returning case mouth flare back flat on the bullet with slight more depending on the headstamp/thickness of case wall. (And .378" taper crimp won't hardly indent .356" sized bullet)
Click to expand...

I tried cycling dummies, no reduction in OAL.

I will try your crimp widths on the next batch, thanks!
 
LiveLife said:
For .356" sized bullet, you want to be around .378" at case mouth (.356" + .022"), essentially returning case mouth flare back flat on the bullet with slight more depending on the headstamp/thickness of case wall. (And .378" taper crimp won't hardly indent .356" sized bullet)
Click to expand...

Good advice and I agree, but sometimes this doesn't work.

As an example, I have a 45acp and shoot both .451 jacketed and .452 coated bullets through it. So in theory my crimp should measure .473 or thereabouts. But that crimp won't chamber in my gun. Crimped at .469 they will sometimes chamber and sometimes won't, so I need to crimp to .468 or .4685 for reliable feeding in MY gun. I could work on the chamber but my loads shoot better than me so I just make my ammo accordingly.

So each barrel/chamber/gun is different, and this is why we experiment to find a good load tailored to a specific gun. All part of the fun and learning!

Dudedog said:
peeplwtchr,
Having fun on your reloading journey?
Click to expand...

peeplwtchr said:
Yep thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm also glad you're enjoying it, it really is a hobby unto itself. And there is so much to learn. I just started about two years ago and now reload 45acp, 38spcl, 357mag, and 480 Ruger. And each new cartridge and powder has been a new journey as well as a new learning experience.

Stay safe and I hope you continue to enjoy it for many years to come!

chris
 
LiveLife said:
Have you shot known factory ammo to compare your test groups with? Yes, crappy Golden Bear, in bottom target, middle right

For .356" sized bullet, you want to be around .378" at case mouth (.356" + .022"), essentially returning case mouth flare back flat

Attached is a pic of 1st batch on left (Topic of the current discussion), and your recommended. 378 crimp (On right). Unless I am psyching myself out, it looks like yours have less indentation. I will run a batch of same grains previously tested, and see if accuracy improves.
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • 20200920_111338.jpg
    20200920_111338.jpg
    88.8 KB · Views: 16
peeplwtchr said:
your recommended. 378 crimp ... have less indentation ... I will run a batch of same grains previously tested, and see if accuracy improves.
Click to expand...
Much better. Looking forward to your repeat range test.

peeplwtchr said:
I am using CPRN. Berry's.
Click to expand...
While many report plated bullets won't produce level of accuracy of jacketed bullets, when I shot USPSA, I used jacketed bullets for match rounds and used Berry's plated bullets for practice rounds.

Here's Berry's regular solid base RN at 25 yards (Don't mind the long OAL, I was in the middle of testing fluffy Herco with no published load data and using longer OAL and did a quick comparison for moderator taliv with Titegroup - BTW, testing with shorter 1.130"-1.135" OAL produced smaller groups than 1.150"-1.160" with 115 gr FMJ/RN) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-pistol-reloaders.746062/page-2#post-9382933

index.php
 
Last edited:
I just tested 4.7, 5.0 and 5.2 grain loads with Federal Match primers. I inspected them, and saw big variations in the primer pockets/ strikes. I've never really looked at spent primers before, so I'm not really sure uf this variance is normal. Anyone have any observations? There are 2 linear indentations on the two on the right, and the bottom two are factory loads, which have "Ripped" primers.

These were possibly shot through 3 different 9mm pistols, and an AR platform PCC.
 

Attachments

  • 20200926_140558.jpg
    20200926_140558.jpg
    180.3 KB · Views: 12
Last edited:
VICTORY TODAY!! :)

I found a 1.5 MOA load for my PCC! I beat the most accurate factory ammo for that gun.
 

Attachments

  • 20200926_153348.jpg
    20200926_153348.jpg
    145.2 KB · Views: 10
Last edited:
BUT THEN at 50 yards :what::(:(:(

Factory ammo bottom left of big target, way better than mine. WTH.
 

Attachments

  • 20200926_154257.jpg
    20200926_154257.jpg
    123.4 KB · Views: 11
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Unique
Replies
10
Views
1K
RecoilRob
R
C5rider
  • Locked
Alliant website info for 357 magnum LSWC correct?
Replies
23
Views
2K
C5rider
C5rider
M
  • Locked
building up loads
Replies
12
Views
522
ModificationVt
M
J
  • Locked
Load data for Speer #3995
Replies
4
Views
894
ArchAngelCD
ArchAngelCD
R
  • Locked
Need help with 40sw loads
Replies
11
Views
764
Matt Dillon
M
Back
Top