Double Action Trigger Only: To "Stage" or Not??

When I shoot a DA I shoot DA---
When I shoot a SA I shoot SA--
Staging the trigger is the same as shooting SA.

nofendertom said:

Staging the trigger is the same as shooting SA.

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And exactly "where" is that?

To me---staging is when I pull the trigger rearward until the cylinder is locked in position aligning it with the bore and the hammer is almost to full cock position. A small
amount of additional pressure on the trigger will drop the hammer much the same way as if I had cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger.
I could be wrong about staging but this is how it was explained to me many years ago.

Jerry Miculek recommends staging the trigger pull for slow fire, precision shots, but I doubt he's "staging" when firing at speed. Ed McGivern, on the other hand, whose feats with a revolver back in the '30's stood for 75 years, recommended a straight through pull. The latter's what I strive for, and have found to be the best in my use. With my S&W's, I rarely shoot SA hand have found little difference, even in slow fire, between groups shot DA vs. those use SA.

YMMv, Rod Here's the search address for Miculet's comments: http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK4/miculek4.html

Some pistols are difficult to stage without a well-defined wall. The difference between my M9 and M11A1 are huge in this regard. However, my guns are defensive tools, so I train with them as such. If I ever need to draw a pistol in real life there's no time to stage a trigger. I just concentrate on a smooth straight pull, not blazingly fast but as fast as I can while maintaining sight picture. I guess some people call it the "sha-boom" technique, but whatever you call it, it's a smooth, straight, complete and timely DA first pull, just as I would likely need to do in a defensive situation.

wiscoaster said:

What's the whole purpose of even having a two-stage trigger if you're not supposed to stage it if you want?

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A double action pistol trigger is not a two stage trigger.

Varminterror said:

A double action pistol trigger is not a two stage trigger.

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Distinction noted. Also please scroll back to post #23. I plead guilty of imprecision.

Butttttttt .... mitigating circumstances: is not the gun world also guilty of imprecision by using the terms "staging" a DA pistol trigger and then referring to a "two-stage" rifle trigger, when in fact they're not one and the same? Using the same term where context determines its definition is not a good way to define terms and contributes to communication confusion.

I have nothing against shooting DA/SA guns in single action as the lock time is so much faster and smoother than any SA only gun that I have owned which has resulted in me being more accurate with a DA than with a SA handgun. But I also believe that for a self defense gun they should be of double action only (internal or bobbed hammer) or striker fired variety. Practicing staging a DA is hazardous to your health in a self defense gun IMHO.

Staging DA triggers is fun and rewarding in slow fire but today WHO HAS TIME? I think the last time I staged a DA handgun trigger was around 1992..... Now I just shoot the bloody thing and get to the next target.

I have two revolvers that are DAO and I likes staging as fine tuning the shot at the last moment. I guess circumstances would play a role in whether to stage or not. Old habits are hard to break... I find myself staging the first shot of my DA pistols.

I have a P250 .22, and I messed around with staging it at the range. Eventually what I ended up with was a slow pull vs. a fast pull. That might be because, unlike shooting a revolver in double action, the P250 trigger feels smooth all the way through the pull. The question I found myself asking was when to stop and why. Without a mechanical "wall," it makes the most sense to just keep your eyes on the front sight and just keep pulling -- slowly if you have time, quickly if you don't.

Me too, tovio - all too often I would send a round down range while trying to stage it LOL

toivo said:

I have a P250 .22, and I messed around with staging it at the range. Eventually what I ended up with was a slow pull vs. a fast pull. That might be because, unlike shooting a revolver in double action, the P250 trigger feels smooth all the way through the pull. The question I found myself asking was when to stop and why. Without a mechanical "wall," it makes the most sense to just keep your eyes on the front sight and just keep pulling -- slowly if you have time, quickly if you don't.

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I always thought my P250's trigger was very much like my S&W revolvers DA triggers. All were/are smooth through the stroke.

The P250's trigger is kind of an oddball in the DAO auto world, as it has that long reset like a revolver. I had a P245 with a factory DAO trigger (not DAK), that was very nice as well, but had a much shorter reset. Im kind of surprised that SIG didnt go with that set up, as I think its the best they ever did.


I think the problem for a lot of beginners starting to shoot DAO is, they are still focused on the trigger, and havent yet learned to put their focus on the sights and keeping them aligned as you shoot.

Once you figure out the trigger is just the trigger, and the sights are the important thing, everything gets a lot easier and your shooting starts to improve.

Its worrying on that trigger that is the problem, and thats something most SA shooters dont seem to understand. They need to learn to change their focus, and stop worrying about what the trigger is doing.

Like others, except as an impractical stunt, I see no reason to waste your time learning the staging "technique". If you want a light trigger pull in a da revolver, cock the hammer.

SwampWolf said:

Like others, except as an impractical stunt, I see no reason to waste your time learning the staging "technique". If you want a light trigger pull in a da revolver, cock the hammer.

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True, but I think the topic is what to do with a DAO revolver.

You're right, toivo-I totally missed the essence of the issue. I suppose staging a trigger in a dao revolver might have some merit.

Some DA triggers stack the pressure required increasing as the release of the firing pin or hammer is approached. With these types of DA triggers I find staging the trigger will produce a more single action type release that improves accuracy when needed for a precise shot. It is an option one can use under some conditions. When quick repeated shots are needed the trigger can be pulled through with out the hesitation of staging.

Other handguns have DA triggers that have little to no stacking and a constant trigger press/pull works well with little no advantage in staging the trigger.

Staging a DA S&W revolver trigger is a very useful technique in slow fire competition. 30 years ago I saw many guys using it in matches so I learned to do it. In the real world you almost certainly will not have time.

Don't stage it for combat shooting. Smooth and consistent.

The P250 is intended as a defensive gun. IMO it's better to learn how to shoot the trigger as designed than learn an imprecise technique that may fail you under stress. I would hate to have an accidental trigger break in a defensive situation because I was staging the trigger and my nerves got the best of me.

Drail said:

Staging a DA S&W revolver trigger is a very useful technique in slow fire competition. 30 years ago I saw many guys using it in matches so I learned to do it.

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When you say "slow fire competition", are you referencing Bullseye matches? I've been competing in Bullseye events for over fifty years and I can tell you I've never seen a dao revolver in competition. Too, when using da revolvers, almost every serious competitor fired the slow-fire phase (ten shots in ten minutes) in the sa mode. There would be little reason to "stage" a da revolver to get a lighter trigger pull (the only reason to do so, as far as I know) when all you have to do is cock the hammer.

I have an SP101 that has a decent trigger, but it does have an ever so slight increase in tension right at the end of the pull.

That makes it a breeze to stage, and I fiddled with it a bit. but it has nearly zero real world application, so I quit messing with that altogether, and went back to the “normal “ smooth, full pull double action as intended.

Doesn’t seem okay to practice for an accidental discharge.

SwampWolf said:

When you say "slow fire competition", are you referencing Bullseye matches? I've been competing in Bullseye events for over fifty years and I can tell you I've never seen a dao revolver in competition. Too, when using da revolvers, almost every serious competitor fired the slow-fire phase (ten shots in ten minutes) in the sa mode. There would be little reason to "stage" a da revolver to get a lighter trigger pull (the only reason to do so, as far as I know) when all you have to do is cock the hammer.

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No. I am a USPSA, bowling pin and steel shooter. I have never competed in "Bullseye". Staging a DA revolver trigger is useful when you have to suddenly switch from close in targets to targets at 40 or 50 yards. I haven't thumb cocked a DA revolver for many years even though most of mine still have SA operation. I do have a number of SA revolvers though for long range games. My carry guns are all revolvers and they can be thumb cocked but I never use them that way.