Light Or No Light On A Home Defense Pistol?

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Well I am not running thru the house aiming down the sights. I took some training classes before I even put the weapon light on for HD, I guess I should have explain that a little better. blame it one using a mobile phone and trying to type hastily.
 
usp9 said:
↑Kleanbore post #26;

I said; I have reluctance to point my firearm at things or people I may not want to shoot.
Kleanbore said; Ah, good thinking.


I said; While checking out a noise I'd rather have my gun pointed down.
Kleanbore said; Best to not do that. It's a good way to get shot. We use cameras.

Please explain why one statement is "good thinking" but the other not. What does "we use cameras" mean?
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He's saying you're better off using a CCTV than riding to the sound of the guns
 
Robbins290 said:
Well I am not running thru the house aiming down the sights. I took some training classes before I even put the weapon light on for HD, I guess I should have explain that a little better. blame it one using a mobile phone and trying to type hastily.
Click to expand...

I've had to clear a couple of buildings for real (as in there was an actual burglar in the building) and I can't explain the effect of adrenaline on the nervous system but I was so keyed up I would have heard a mouse fart. That's why I view it the way I do.
 
Oh, this again.

Yes. Unequivocally. The only reason I wouldn't use white light is if I happened to have night vision on my head, so can see with that.

Here's another huge misconception from the Givens article:
"A much more accurate statement would be that 80% of pistol fights occur during the hours of darkness."

NO. Wrong. The original statement is correct because of doors, walls, and roofs. Lots of daytime low/no light shootings occur. Lots.

Otherwise, I totally disagree with the gist of his article. Flip his concept of context around: you are adequately lit so the bad guys can see you, but they are hiding in the shadows, etc. A classic technique from the dawn of time in fact. Ambient light is not consistent over the area, but varies. Also as some mentioned, adjusting to varying lighting conditions is a thing; if you go from bright sun into a room with comfortable lighting like a cozy restaurant, it is so relatively dark you are bumping into things. A white light is a good way to fix that.


I also have never, ever, ever understood the concern about pointing the gun at things to light them up. Just don't do that. The WML is for aiming. The handheld light you also have is for searching. Remember all the OODA loops and that stuff? Finding, identifying, aiming, and engaging are all different tasks so plan for them. Me, I wouldn't even have a gun out of the holster (or equivalent for home defense... low ready?) for most searching. Not a problem unless you make it one.
 
usp9 said:
↑Kleanbore post #26;

I said; I have reluctance to point my firearm at things or people I may not want to shoot.
Kleanbore said; Ah, good thinking.


I said; While checking out a noise I'd rather have my gun pointed down.
Kleanbore said; Best to not do that. It's a good way to get shot. We use cameras.

Please explain why one statement is "good thinking" but the other not. What does "we use cameras" mean?
Click to expand...
The first represents good thinking.

Checking out a noise with gun in hand is an extremely risky proposition. Let the trheat come to you.

Don't take this thread off topic. Search on bumps in the night, house clearing, clearing structures.

usp9 said:
What does "we use cameras" mean?
Click to expand...

This:
Trunk Monkey said:
He's saying you're better off using a CCTV than riding to the sound of the guns
Click to expand...
 
Establishing personal protection and security in your home involves layers of protection. A weapons mounted light may be considered after a security system with video, motion detector activated lights, interior low level lighting at A/C outlets for starters.

Having a dedicated home protection firearm makes sense to a lot of people that includes "night sights" and a "WML"! In addition a separate hand held flash light. The use of self defense firearm and the use of lights requires training and follow up practice.

It has taken years for law enforcement to authorize WML's for first responders following training. Much like transitioning to RMR's. Training and certification is required in many jurisdictions.

For anyone considering WML's do the research like what's going on here and get training and practice. I run monthly low light club APL matches. Lights are optional either hand held or WML. The first run is regular lighting and may involve COM and head shots. Low light targets are COM only! (APL= Action Pistol League)

Many club APL shooters are using only night sights since this is low light and not 100% darkness. My EDC has night sights and I carry a flash light. I train with both!

Train, practice and repeat!
 
Trunk Monkey said:
I've had to clear a couple of buildings for real (as in there was an actual burglar in the building) and I can't explain the effect of adrenaline on the nervous system but I was so keyed up I would have heard a mouse fart. That's why I view it the way I do.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I had to use a firearm more then one to defend my self. Adrenaline will make people to crazy things. Lucky all the times i had to use it was in the woods with charging critters.
 
JJFitch said:
Establishing personal protection and security in your home involves layers of protection. A weapons mounted light may be considered after a security system with video, motion detector activated lights, interior low level lighting at A/C outlets for starters.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed!

JJFitch said:
Having a dedicated home protection firearm makes sense to a lot of people that includes "night sights" and a "WML"!
Click to expand...
The reason that I don't have a WML is this.

I could keep one next to the bed, I suppose.

But I have no reason to believe that I will only have to access a firearm while the lights are off.

My firearm is on my person when I am not in bed. I won't want a WML in the holster.
 
Kleanbore said:
Tom Givens? That's ridiculous. He is extremely knowledgeable and experienced, and he is trying to impart understanding to those who are not.

Tom is a member here.

Drive a few hundred miles and study under him when you can
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I can't pretend to know what works for Tom Givens, or for you. But as I can come up with plausible scenarios where I could identify a deadly threat in lighting that would prohibit me from seeing non-tritium factory pistol sights, I'm going to assuming that both Tom and yourself could too if you tried. It seems like the article is trying a little too hard to dissuade people from adding two components to their handguns that could be beneficial. Tritium sights and a weapon light certainly would not be detrimental in a Home Defense situation, unless the advantages to having them were used negligently.
 
Kleanbore said:
No, it doesn't.

But the poster said he needed a WML because there are no streetlights.
Click to expand...

Is that what you thought I meant?

Sorry if I misled.

To be clear, i was referring to if I have to go outside my rural home on my own property at night because, for some reason, and if I think there is something “bad” going on. We do have the occasional robberies and what not.

We very rarely have cops drive through our gated neighborhood. I’ve lived in my current home for 5 years and have never seen a LEO vehicle drive on my cul de sac street. I’ve only ever seen county sheriff vehicles less than a dozen times in the neighborhood and all were responding to a specific call.
 
Buzznrose said:
To be clear, i was referring to if I have to go outside my rural home on my own property at night because, for some reason, and if I think there is something “bad” going on
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That can be an incredibly bad idea.

There is technology available today that can let you find out what is going on without exposing yourself to ambush.
 
I haven't put a light on my bedside gun as yet,,,
But it's on my list of things to do soon.

I look at a handgun light as a broad beam laser sight,,,
At least the ones that I have handled are like that.

Basically the bullet goes where the light is pointing,,,
It theory if you are lighting the goblin,,,
You'll probably hit him.

Aarond

.
 
WrongHanded said:
I can't pretend to know what works for Tom Givens, or for you. But as I can come up with plausible scenarios where I could identify a deadly threat in lighting that would prohibit me from seeing non-tritium factory pistol sights, I'm going to assuming that both Tom and yourself could too if you tried.
Click to expand...
Tom explains what he does about it, and I have too.
 
Kleanbore said:
Tom explains what he does about it, and I have too.
Click to expand...

That's cool. I use tritium sights, and also a WML for Home Defense. The technology is available, so I might as well use it. Much easier to have solutions on the firearm than need to factor in a separate light in circumstances where there is a known deadly threat.
 
Do you run a light on your home defense pistol, yes or no, and why?
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Nope.

I keep a powerful flashlight handy and I want the light to be shining from an angle separate from the muzzle.
 
I use to use a S&W Model 10 and a Maglite 3 D cell flashlight for those possible night time incursions. I used the Harries technique with the flashlight and felt fairly comfortable with it.

Many years later I got a SIG P229R which had a rail, something that I didn't have on any of my guns at that point. Seeing as how I now had a rail I promptly went out and bought a laser/light module for it. The light is very bright and also has a strobe setting which works really effectively. All in all I think it's a pretty decent set-up for home defense.
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I have lights on (almost) all my firearms that can take lights. I also have many, many flashlights, including for EDC. Having a light on your firearm does not mean you cannot use an external light when that is more appropriate.

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Three pages in and I think a few of you need to have a refresher glimpse at the title of the thread. A WML on a home defense gun. Streetlights or the lack thereof and just what is prudent to post on a gun forum, well- fascinating subjects but off topic. Apropos of nothing I would love to train with Tom Givens and hopefully someday after the pandemic I will. But his comments weren't really aimed at night sights or a WML on a HD gun; his article was primarily discussing public spaces. I don't have a WML on the gun I CCW, for the reasons he discusses (although I do have a hand held light on my person). However I do keep a WML on the sidearm I carry hiking & camping for fairly obvious reasons (ie there are no streetlights out in the wilderness and on a cloudy night in the mountains you can scarcely see your hand in front of your face).
 
It might be a better option to have a good flashlight separate from the gun. This way, you could use the light hand to support your gun hand. You could keep the light OFF until you might need it, keeping your location/position hidden until the last moment.
I carry a small, high output LED light in my left hand with my thumb on the switch in the end of the light. My left wrist is under my right wrist to support my gun hand with the light aimed forwards, waiting to be turned on to ID a potential target.
 
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