Indoor Range head trauma?

If you feel it, you feel it.
I don't shoot 150 heavy loads at a time indoors and have not been affected by my own gun.

BUT, the time I got stuck next to a .223 "pistol" I felt like I was being beaten over the head, dividers and all. Fortunately the range staffer listened to my grumbling and moved the shooters to the other range bay.

You can absolutely get hearing damage. Brain injury is unlikely because it generally requires some type of physical trauma. I used to play music in a band at terrible volumes and got headaches and such afterward. Not uncommon.

I've been in cinder block divided indoor ranges where old school battle rifles are firing. Some fired by me such as M1 Garand, K31, and the less powerful SKS and AR types. They sure seem louder than any typical handgun cartridge.

One thing is for sure, if I have a situation with my sinuses like I've had for the last 2.5 weeks, indoor range shooting is miserable and ill-advised.

OP, were the air-filtering systems turned on at your range? What you breath can get pretty toxic with all that shooting if they forgot to turn on their HVAC to filter it all out.

Palladan44 said:

Im putting a feeler out there.....do you think damage occurs to your hearing and or to your brain from firing indoors, especially with the lane seperators right next to the muzzle?
Dispite doubling up on hearing protection....
I fired about 150 rounds of full house 10mm from my glock 20 yesterday, and im still feeling it today. Slightly dizzy, headache, feel like I have a mild concussion. Im not inclined to do it again.
Going to keep the higher caliber stuff (aka. anything more than a .38 special or 9mm) outdoor only or a very limited number indoors.

Any experiences? If youre going to make fun, feel free to keep it to yourself.

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Honestly, if you are doubled up on hearing protection and a 10mm did that to you, you might want to consult your doctor. I have shot several hundred H110 357 magnum loads, full house AA#9 10mm loads, and exceptionally warm 38 Supers loaded with V-N105 indoor before, and didn't have a problem. Yes, they are much louder indoors but I didn't suffer any lasting effects. Maybe I will with the accumulation of age, but I'm not exactly young anymore either.

I shoot a 460 mag also, and would never shoot it indoors even with doubled up hearing protection and a pillow wrapped around and tied to my head. I also wouldn't want my fellow shooters to hate me, and they would.

If it left you feeling crumby, I worry there is something else going on.

chicharrones said:

I've been in cinder block divided indoor ranges where old school battle rifles are firing. Some by myself such as M1 Garand, K31, and the less powerful SKS and AR types. They sure seem louder than any typical handgun cartridge.

One thing is for sure, if I have a situation with my sinuses like I've had for the last 2.5 weeks, indoor range shooting is miserable and ill-advised.

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I made the mistake of walking past a guy shooting an AR 10 in an indoor range. The concussion could be felt on my face. It was extremely unpleasant to be around. I almost left after 5 minutes and asked for my money back.

I've never seen any studies done on this, but wouldn't be surprised if it isn't possible. I did play football for 10 years and spent over 30 years as a coach so I've paid a lot of attention to the brain issues involved with sports. Most people concentrate on the big hits in sports where someone is knocked out or is visibly unstable after being hit. But most of the real damage is due to repeated much smaller blows that show no visible signs. Lots of the guys who have proven to have the worst damage were never diagnosed with a concussion.

And it has been shown that just the shock waves from a nearby explosion can do physical damage to the brain. If a firearm in an enclosed area creates enough pressure to do damage I don't know. But I'm going with "It's possible" until I see proof otherwise.

There’s a couple possibilities that could have caused this. But you don’t have a concussion. It’s possible you have Tullio’s phenomena (also called Tulio’s Phenomena).
this is the involuntary movement (nystagmus) of your eyes caused by loud "pulses" of sound. (generally triggered by one “bad” ear, not both). It’s also possible that the negative pressure you exerted onto your vestibular system from the suction of pulling the ear plugs out has caused this.

I'm gonna bet it has a lot to do with how the range is built. The local range here has foam walls all over including the dividers that absorb very well. Not to mention the ventilation system they have. Put 50 rounds of hot .357mag thru the 4" and 100 rounds of .45 yesterday and just a happy camper. I hate shooting indoors but sometimes it's a necessity if I want to shoot.

I never have any of the problems from noise or "booms" the OP is describing. But, the crap in the air that you breathe at indoor ranges has messed with me. I have felt like hell the next day and I've isolated the problem to poor ventilation.

Hartkopf said:

I never have any of the problems from noise or "booms" the OP is describing. But, the crap in the air that you breathe at indoor ranges has messed with me. I have felt like hell the next day and I've isolated the problem to poor ventilation.

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I’m not sure it’s even legal to operate an indoor range without properly operating ventilation. But if that range’s wasn’t working well, could absolutely play a role. I would think there would be some kind of sinus, throat issue though with those kinds of irritants. Maybe not.

Palladan44 said:

Im putting a feeler out there.....do you think damage occurs to your hearing and or to your brain from firing indoors, especially with the lane seperators right next to the muzzle?
Dispite doubling up on hearing protection....
I fired about 150 rounds of full house 10mm from my glock 20 yesterday, and im still feeling it today. Slightly dizzy, headache, feel like I have a mild concussion. Im not inclined to do it again.
Going to keep the higher caliber stuff (aka. anything more than a .38 special or 9mm) outdoor only or a very limited number indoors.

Any experiences? If you're going to make fun, feel free to keep it to yourself.

Click to expand...

I have been shooting indoor for years at my local range and have not had a problem. Seriously maybe should have your sinuses checked out by a nose & throat doctor just to be safe to much pressure. The only thing that makes me jump a little is when some one rents the .500 caliber revolver which is a little extreme for indoors , I just stop until they are done usually they only buy about 4 rounds , to expensive to shoot much.

I've been on non-partitioned outdoor ranges with a distance of 4' separation and have felt the concussion of large calibers (.44Spcl, .45) on my face. I'm betting 150 rounds of full house 10mm is gonna leave its mark regardless of whether you're inside or out.

jmr40 said:

And it has been shown that just the shock waves from a nearby explosion can do physical damage to the brain. If a firearm in an enclosed area creates enough pressure to do damage I don't know. But I'm going with "It's possible" until I see proof otherwise.

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In order for there to be damage to the brain, the head has to be hit and and the brain has to be stopped fast enough that the brain will hit the skull. It doesn't take a lot to do that, but the concussive force from a pistol or rifle would really have to be high to cause this to happen. I mean anything is possible, but chances are, your brain wouldn't be the only thing that would be damaged from such a force not specifically targeted to your head like in boxing or football.

OP, it may be a good idea to call your doctor. It's possible that what you're feeling will pass with no further problems, but it could also be signs of soomething that should be addressed.

I've been to ranges where someone firing a canon, sends a pulse so strong you feel it through every inch - and even with double hearing pro, from my expierence it causes fatigue. I'm not a physician or an expert, but - my guess would be you are affected by the lighting and flashing, the odd lighting in indoor ranges and ongoing flashing from all directions, can make anyone dizzy or feel sick - like some people will have a strong reaction to a strobe light or any flashing light. My guess is the flashing and booms, confused your senses, and that is what you're feeling. Just a guess.

No proof of damage though there may be from the shock waves produced if violent enough.
While working at an outdoor range one afternoon I had a patron with a 300Win Mag that also had a muzzle brake on it and that gun was absolutely obnoxious. He was benched directly across from the RO Table and with every shot I could feel the concussion in my teeth. Also if standing off to the side and behind there was still a strong muzzle blast.

Can't remember where I found it but there was a study done on hearing protection and they found no advantage of doubling up with ear plugs and muffs.

Well, that explains it ... brain damage from shooting.

It may affect folks differently. I shoot indoors quite a bit, never a problem. I try to be considerate of other shooters and will give a warning before the seriously obnoxiously loud magnums come out and if there are young or frail looking people close by I'll hold off if possible. I've been told that the concussion really bothers some people. It doesn't bother me at all, I never had to get used to it, simply never bothered me. I work in a loud environment with poor air quality at times and my hearing isn't what it was but also not terrible, maybe that helps me be numb to some concussion and air pollution , I don't know.
Has this always been an issue for you or is it the first time?

Just make sure your hearing protection is just that, protection. That means no leaks. Next on an indoor range if you are in a cloud of smoke I suggest you find another range with air handlers which work. I also agree that the concussion from gun blast likely effects some more than others. It never bothered me but if you have headaches a day later as a result of shooting I suggest you see a doctor.

Ron

460Shooter said:

Honestly, if you are doubled up on hearing protection and a 10mm did that to you, you might want to consult your doctor.
If it left you feeling crumby, I worry there is something else going on.

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This.

We shoot 223 rifles and such indoors with no (apparent?) negative effects.

Many years ago in Phoenix, at the Ben Avery Range, when Barrett or McMillin was developing the 50 cal sniper bolt gun, the blast from the muzzle break tipped over a full coke can in the next position. Made my 03A3 puny.

A 50 on a pedastal mount, on a jeep/tank is loud, but not as loud as with the break, and under overhead cover.

I recall a high powered pistol shooter in the 90's wearing a full face motorcycle helmet to help alleviate concussion from the other shooters.

I woke up in the middle of the night a few years ago with nausea and migraine symptoms. I went to my doctor the next day and she immediately ordered a scan of my head. It came back negative. She was talking to me in her office, taking notes on what I had been eating and drinking. Then she asked if I had been around any loud noises. Well... I told her I had been to a Rush concert (5 rows back). She threw her pencil down and looked at me in dismay. She then says, "Why the hell didn't you tell me that?" And pretty much kicked me out of her office.