Hey .350 Rem Mag and .35 Whelen Guys, Bullet selection?

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Chuck R.

Chuck R.

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Jan 23, 2005
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5,179
Location
Leavenworth, KS
Guys,

I specified Whelen and .350 guys to keep the MVs in the same ballpark.

Looking for recommendations for a .358 "deer bullet" for my .350 Rem Mag M7 (M7=short mag length = 2.8" max). I've owned my rifle for years, bought it when I was stationed in WA state and used it for Elk and blacktails on the east side of the state (thickish timber, with occasional clear cuts). With it I killed a 5x4 bull and a couple blacktails. I developed 2 loads for it; Nosler 225 Partition for elk and the Sierra 225 Gameking for deer and practice. Both bullets left the 20" barrel in the 2700+ FPS range and when zero'd at 200 dropped a little over 8" at 300, just about perfect for that terrain (occasional clear cuts). I also developed a 250 Speer SP load, at just under 2500 for "just in case" and sighted the irons for it. I literally haven't shot the rifle since transferring back to KS in "99".

I am going to verify it's zero with the 225 NPs tomorrow and take it to OK next weekend to chase pigs as we plan on doing a couple drives in addition to stands and the little .350 should come in handy.

Now due to absence of elk here in KS, or at least easy to get tags for elk (I know we've got some, was station at Ft. Riley while they were being introduced). I'd like to develop a 200 grain deer load and get some more use out of the rifle. I first went looking at Nosler, but the 200 Grn ABs won't work due to the ogive shape combined with the 2.8" OAL limit. From what I've read, using TAC (I'm sitting on 12lbs of it) I should be able to get a 200grn to about 2800 FPS.

What are you guys using for 200 grn .358 bullets??

The rifle in question: Rem M7 MS from the custom shop, Swarovski 1.25-4X in Warne QD mounts:

XaOSHTll.jpg
 
I'm sincerely curious..., why are you thinking of changing a successful load merely because you're going for whitetail? KS has some rather large whitetail to boot. I would think, but don't know, which is why I'm offering the question, that having found a 225 grain Nosler bullet loading that works well, that you'd simply keep that accurate load, as you haven't mentioned a need to mitigate recoil or any other factor than there not being Elk. I suppose having another load for a different bullet might be an advantage in lean times...,

LD
 
Loyalist Dave said:
I'm sincerely curious..., why are you thinking of changing a successful load merely because you're going for whitetail? KS has some rather large whitetail to boot. I would think, but don't know, which is why I'm offering the question, that having found a 225 grain Nosler bullet loading that works well, that you'd simply keep that accurate load, as you haven't mentioned a need to mitigate recoil or any other factor than there not being Elk. I suppose having another load for a different bullet might be an advantage in lean times...,

LD
Click to expand...

Dave,

I'd like to come up with a cheaper load to practice and hunt with if possible. I'll most likely just use the .350 to shoot a couple does anyway, keeping my .270 or .260s as my primary "buck" guns. The .350 is set up for timber, although I'm thinking of getting VX3HD 2.5-8x for it, in addition the the Swarovski. Practicing with and sending 225NPs through does is kind of a waste ($$). While the recoil in the M7 is manageable, the 200s would be nicer to shoot. Also as you pointed out, these days multiple loads with different bullets can be a blessing. I've done pretty well keeping a good stockage of my primary hunting bullets in .223, .260, .270, .308 and even 8mm (a lifetime worth if only checking zeros and hunting), but I've fallen short on the .358.
 
The only offerings in 180 gr. that I'm aware of are the expensive Barnes TTX-type and Speer flat-nose. Nosler offers the great Accubond bullet in 200 grs. Work up a load for either one and it will be plenty for whitetails.
 
Patocazador said:
The only offerings in 180 gr. that I'm aware of are the expensive Barnes TTX-type and Speer flat-nose. Nosler offers the great Accubond bullet in 200 grs. Work up a load for either one and it will be plenty for whitetails.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the Nosler ABs, both the 200 and 225s are too long to work in the .350 Rem at the 2.8" mag length. I read it on some forums, then followed up with Nosler tech, who confirmed. It places the ogive within the case neck potentially cause neck tension problems and set-back. I've been looking at the Barnes 200 grn FB, but they'll be in the realm of the Nosler Partitions cost wise. I did just order some Hornady 200 SP "Interlocks". I'm not a Hornady fan, but right now availability is trumping preference.
 
Patocazador said:
Have a gunsmith lengthen the throat if it's not too big a difference.

BTW, I love your rifle but the recoil would be too much for me.
Click to expand...

Throat's not the issue. The problem is trying to fit a sleek higher BC .358 bullet into a .350 Rem Mag and have it fit in a 2.8" box magazine. There's just not a huge selection in .358 bullets. It's like any other trade off really. I traded some higher BCs and heavier bullets for a a short compact rifle. The Nosler 225 NP will deal with anything on North America, out to 300 yards, so honestly it's not that big of a handycap.

Whenever I start feeling sorry for myself I just think of the poor SOBs trying to make .358 Winchesters and 9x56s work :D
 
Stick with your 225 loads for hunting. Bullet availability at the moment is catch as catch can. I use the 200 grs FTX (Hornady) intended for 35 Rem in my 35 Krag as plinking round, as well as some 225 grs cast bullets. You will have to take what you can get these days.
 
Chuck R. said:
Dave,

I'd like to come up with a cheaper load to practice and hunt with if possible. I'll most likely just use the .350 to shoot a couple does anyway, keeping my .270 or .260s as my primary "buck" guns. The .350 is set up for timber, although I'm thinking of getting VX3HD 2.5-8x for it, in addition the the Swarovski. Practicing with and sending 225NPs through does is kind of a waste ($$). While the recoil in the M7 is manageable, the 200s would be nicer to shoot. Also as you pointed out, these days multiple loads with different bullets can be a blessing. I've done pretty well keeping a good stockage of my primary hunting bullets in .223, .260, .270, .308 and even 8mm (a lifetime worth if only checking zeros and hunting), but I've fallen short on the .358.
Click to expand...

OK thanks for the reply. Yes, I learned something new. I'm always in heavy brush, so I'm always under 200 yards, and for the vast majority of time under half that distance. Plus where I am the rifle cartridge near my home has to be a straight walled variety. I too have experienced the high cost of projectiles when a very basic one would suffice for most of my local, shooting and hunting needs. :thumbup:

LD
 
Loyalist Dave said:
OK thanks for the reply. Yes, I learned something new. I'm always in heavy brush, so I'm always under 200 yards, and for the vast majority of time under half that distance. Plus where I am the rifle cartridge near my home has to be a straight walled variety. I too have experienced the high cost of projectiles when a very basic one would suffice for most of my local, shooting and hunting needs. :thumbup:

LD
Click to expand...

LD,

After reading multiple "what's your longest shot on XX" threads on several forums, I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of game is killed at under 200 yards, most likely under 100. I can count on both my hands the shots on game I've taken over 300yds, it's just not the norm. Last few years I've been doing more hunting from stands and blinds to I'm averaging right under 150yds. Here in NE KS with the rolling hills and wooded areas, long shots aren't the norm. Which is why I'm messing with the .350 and spend most of my time hunting with a 20" barreled .260. Just don't need the extra range provided by my long barreled .270 and .300WM.

I've spent the last couple days searching for .35 bullets (any bullets for that matter) and the situation just sucks. I can't believe there that great of a surge on hunting bullets, so I'm guessing the manufacturers have shifted production to the calibers in high demand. I verified the zero on the .350 today and whacked some steel at 200 & 300, just cause I could. 10 rounds on Nolser 225 Partitions at $1.00+ each sucks, but the inability to replace them sucks worse:uhoh:

gvP5WH7l.jpg
 
Chuck R. said:
LD,
I've spent the last couple days searching for .35 bullets (any bullets for that matter) and the situation just sucks. I can't believe there that great of a surge on hunting bullets, so I'm guessing the manufacturers have shifted production to the calibers in high demand. I verified the zero on the .350 today and whacked some steel at 200 & 300, just cause I could. 10 rounds on Nolser 225 Partitions at $1.00+ each sucks, but the inability to replace them sucks worse:uhoh:
Click to expand...

Right!
I have a .450 Bushmaster cartridge rifle, and being frugal, just sighting it in was painful when we're talking more than $1.75 per each shot. :confused:
Luckily I was able to find, over several months, brass and bullets that would work well for me at 150 yards or less. I'm actually using a 230 grain lead alloy hollow point meant for .45 ACP, and moderate velocity loads. My other choice is a powder-lubed lead alloy 255 grain semi-wadcutter meant for .45 Colt cartridges. Using reloads gives me ammunition at less than half the cost of the factory stuff, which I can live with. My son, the long range shooter, simply can't find the components for his pet loads in his 6.5 Creedmoore. It would be worse if the weather was nice enough to go to the 1000 yard range to shoot, for the fact that the range really isn't open mollifies the desire to go and shoot, otherwise we might have enough ammo for one outing..., might...., but unless supply changes in the next few months, it will likely be a one-outing-year for us.

LD
 
I use 180 grain FTX in my 358 win but it may do massive tissue damage at 350 rem velocities.
 
Bull Nutria said:
I have a 35 Whelen Thompson Center Encore and load Hornady 200 g FTX bullets for LA whitetails. I find they mushroom well and are adequately accurate.
Bull
Click to expand...

Bull,

Interesting...what V are you running them and are they holding up? I believe they were designed for lever guns, probably at about 2500 max.
 
Loyalist Dave said:
OK thanks for the reply. Yes, I learned something new. I'm always in heavy brush, so I'm always under 200 yards, and for the vast majority of time under half that distance. Plus where I am the rifle cartridge near my home has to be a straight walled variety. I too have experienced the high cost of projectiles when a very basic one would suffice for most of my local, shooting and hunting needs. :thumbup:

LD
Click to expand...
At those ranges the 180 Speer flat point will work just fine and they are devastating on wild pigs. I love that Mannlicher stock. That is a good looking rifle. I load for both the 358 Winchester shot out of a blr takedown and the 9x56 shot from my 1905 Mannlicher Schoenauer. I am currently using Hawke bullets in the 1905. Good hunting.
 
Chuck R. said:
Bull,

Interesting...what V are you running them and are they holding up? I believe they were designed for lever guns, probably at about 2500 max.
Click to expand...
Designed for 35 rem I am loading them at 2450. I have had complete pass throughs on the 4 deer I have shot with them. With hogs they just jellify the lungs but do not exit.
 
Chuck R. said:
LD,

After reading multiple "what's your longest shot on XX" threads on several forums, I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of game is killed at under 200 yards, most likely under 100. I can count on both my hands the shots on game I've taken over 300yds, it's just not the norm. Last few years I've been doing more hunting from stands and blinds to I'm averaging right under 150yds. Here in NE KS with the rolling hills and wooded areas, long shots aren't the norm. Which is why I'm messing with the .350 and spend most of my time hunting with a 20" barreled .260. Just don't need the extra range provided by my long barreled .270 and .300WM.

I've spent the last couple days searching for .35 bullets (any bullets for that matter) and the situation just sucks. I can't believe there that great of a surge on hunting bullets, so I'm guessing the manufacturers have shifted production to the calibers in high demand. I verified the zero on the .350 today and whacked some steel at 200 & 300, just cause I could. 10 rounds on Nolser 225 Partitions at $1.00+ each sucks, but the inability to replace them sucks worse:uhoh:

View attachment 979520
Click to expand...
I am finding 35 caliber bullets in the little hole in the wall shops. Can't find 6.5 or 308 caliber bullets anywhere.
 
My 35 whelen load is 56g IMR4064,cci LR primer and 200 g Hornady FTX. I have never chronographed them. However I am estimating about 2400FPS based on LYman 49th manual data thru interpolation.

Bull
 
Bull Nutria said:
My 35 whelen load is 56g IMR4064,cci LR primer and 200 g Hornady FTX. I have never chronographed them. However I am estimating about 2400FPS based on LYman 49th manual data thru interpolation.

Bull
Click to expand...
How is the performance on game.
 
9x56MS said:
I am finding 35 caliber bullets in the little hole in the wall shops. Can't find 6.5 or 308 caliber bullets anywhere.
Click to expand...
I confess a suppressed desire for a 358 Winchester rifle. I can't use it anyplace where I normally hunt, but I like the concept, and the performance reports from the guys that do use it, some handload and some do not, but all like it very much.

LD
 
my 200 g FTX out of my 35 whelen usually pass thru these 80 to 120lb LA deer. I haven't lost a deer but have only had one DRT! They usually dont go more than 30 yds. I usually aim for the high shoulder shot. The DRT shot was a quartering toward me shot from front shoulder to rear. found the perfectly mushroomed bullet under the off side hide. I recall at least 4 deer and 1 hog taken with the 200ftx. the hog was a DRT also. I was aiming for the neck head junction and hit it near the eye--lights out at 80yds!!

Bull
 
Loyalist Dave said:
I confess a suppressed desire for a 358 Winchester rifle. I can't use it anyplace where I normally hunt, but I like the concept, and the performance reports from the guys that do use it, some handload and some do not, but all like it very much.

LD
Click to expand...

LD,

Truthfully I wandered into the .350 after trying fruitlessly to find a used .358Win BLR or Savage 99, both of which which were about perfect for the terrain I was hunting in at the time. The .350 does add some range/lethality and since the tgt animal was elk at the time, it made sense. The one elk I shot with it (5x4) was up on the side of a clear cut at about 180yds, well within .358W capabilities. The .358 would definitely handle what I'm doing now. I could download the .350, but I've got this weird thing about buying a big honking case and not filling it up :D
 
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