Any .35 caliber fans here?

[Gryffydd]

Unless you're talking about a ray gun, energy doesn't kill anything. A bullet kills things. Energy is a measure of the ability to do work, but it's the bullet that does the work. For an extreme example, what do you think a .223 V-Max with 2,000ft/lbs of energy would do to a moose? Would it do as well as a .308 180gr Partition with the same amount of energy?

Sure there's a relationship between energy and killing power. But to think it's anywhere close to a 1:1 relationship is silly.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

For an extreme example, what do you think a .223 V-Max with 2,000ft/lbs of energy would do to a moose? Would it do as well as a .308 180gr Partition with the same amount of energy?

By selecting a specific bullet (the V-Max), you make it a matter of bullet construction. With a hypothetical perfect bullet, that will hang together, expand and penetrate, the .223 will kill the moose. There just aren't that many perfect .223 big game bullets out there.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

1. IF I HAD TO try moose with a 223, I'd use the Federal 62gr bonded sp. And I'd do my damnedest to make it a head shot. If not, it'd have to be broadside through the ribs into the boiler room with the realization I'm most likely in for a LONG tracking session before he dropped even if I did hit the heart and not just lungs or liver. No off angle shots in this situation for me PERIOD.

2. Had a thread on it a while back, but with the input and encouragement of Vern Humphrey and others here on THR I'm having a 1903 built into a 35 Brown-Whelen as we speak......

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Good man.

I like RL 15 and IMR 4064. Use .35 Whelen loading data and work your way up carefully -- remember, the .35 B-W is not standardized, and you chamber (and hence your rifle) may be different from mine. There is NO lab-tested data for the .35 B-W. Do NOT use PO Ackley's data -- a friend did and said, "You could have reloaded that case with a shotgun primer."

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Vern- I promise when it's done, careful case inspection and chrono mapping will be the order of the day while working up loads for it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Work carefully, and you'll love the .35 B-W.

 

[Gryffydd]

By selecting a specific bullet (the V-Max), you make it a matter of bullet construction.

Exactly. All the energy in the world is useless with the wrong bullet, and slight differences in bullet construction can make much more of a difference in killing power than +/- a few hundred ft/lbs.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Agreed. Hence my choice of the bonded slug in the 223 for "heavy duty' use......

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The proper question here is not, "Should we use varmit bullets on elk and moose" but "Does more power increase the likelihood of getting a kill?"

To answer the second question, we need a level playing field -- using bullets designed for big game. And then the answer is "yes." A .308 or a .30-06 is a better choice for large animals. And a .338 WM or a .375 H&H better yet, provided the hunter can shoot it accurately.

 

[Gryffydd]

The proper question here is not, "Should we use varmit bullets on elk and moose" but "Does more power increase the likelihood of getting a kill?"

That's why I clearly referred to it as an "extreme example" of the case that energy in and of itself has a lesser effect than changes in bullet construction. It was in response to the "Energy kills" "No it doesn't"

 

[MCgunner]

Logically (another extreme example, sorta) if crush cavity, tissue disruption of tissue directly contacted by the bullet, did the killing and energy of the bullet didn't matter, then a 1.25" diameter 3 blade Muzzy broadhead would kill faster than a 35 caliber bullet at 4000 fps. All bow kills would be DRTs assuming good placement. But, such is not the case. The ONLY way an arrow kills is by cutting, just like a knife.

Never fear, though, cause a 225 grain bullet at 2800 fps carries 3900 ft lbs, which is more than enough to get the job done on anything in north America. So, regardless of what does the killing, the .35 Whelen will do it. It's packin' over 1000 ft lbs more than my .308, put it that way. Or, to put it another way, it's about 30 percent more powerful than the .308 (without calculating it directly). In fact, it tops the 7mm Rem Mag by about 400 ft lbs. It is not too shy of the .338 Winchester magnum!

 

[35 Whelen]

jim in Anchorage wrote:

If you have time to use the rangefinder.

VERY good point. Last year was my first year to use a rangefinder. What I did, especially while elk hunting, was to range things such as trees, rocks, etc. when I found a spot to sit. Likewise, did the same while deer hunting. Prior to owning a rangefinder, I spent a lot of time estomatng ranges of trees, rocks, etc. while hunting.
Also, I don't keep the rangefinder in my hand. If I see game at at unknown and obviously long distance, and I'm uncomfortable with the shot, I just don't shoot. That's part of hunting.
35W

 

[35 Whelen]

That's a common belief that I do not agree with. Read up on some of Dr. Michael Courtney's work. It's quite convincing. He is a PhD physicist and knows about the subject, studies "ballistic pressure waves".

Kewl....how many head of game has he killed? GAME...not ballistic gelatin. One reason "studies" aren't 100% accurate is that it's impossible to factor in each and every head of game. In my 30+ years of hunting I've found that animals have a stronger or weaker desire to fight to live. Even animals of the same species.
And with that...to each his (or her) own...
35W

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I don't know, think I'd soon have a .30-06 as the Whelen. I don't see any advantage in the Whelen. Similar energies developed at lower velocities with a bigger bullet and a rainbow trajectory. Far as "big game" goes, if the Whelen can kill it, the .30-06 with a proper bullet can and can do it a bit further out with less hold over.

When I think REALLY big, dangerous game, I start thinkin' .375 H&H or bigger. I simply don't have a need down here in Tejas, though. If I lived up there in Alaska, I might have one. Well, I don't know if I'd care that much for bear hunting. I hear the meat sux, but heck, I guess you can't have too much overkill on a moose, eh? But, down here in brush on hogs and deer, a .357 carbine properly

I personally don't think there is that much difference in 30-06 or .35 Whelen killing power. I think the real appeal of the Whelen is that people perceive the bigger bore is more efficient in a short barrel-which it is.
By the way, spring bear is good-not great, good. Fall bear that have been eating fish are to be avoided at all costs.
The best is fall bear in the interior that have no access to salmon, and have been fattening up all summer on Berry's and ground squirrel's

 

[MCgunner]

Kewl....how many head of game has he killed? GAME..

I'm 57 years old. My first deer I killed with a .257 Roberts at age 11. I've killed dozens since and throw in all the hogs. I ain't no newbie to the sport, put it that way. I ain't rich and never hunted elk, but I know guns and will pit my marksmanship to 400 yards with anyone on this board including you. I am not a long range shooter, just don't have anywhere to practice.

I've taken whitetail with from .357 magnum (both rifle and handgun) to 7mm Rem Mag to include .257 Roberts, .30-30 (both rifle and handgun), 7.62x39, 7x57, .308 winchester. My only .35 is a .357 Magnum. I really don't need a big gun even if I get to hunt elk or Nilgai in the future. I have the big 7. A lot of those DRTs, and most of mine have been, have to do with putting the bullet in the right spot. You can't put a .458 Win Mag in the haunch and get a DRT on a whitetail, let alone an elk.

BTW, I've had a rangefinder for a dozen years or about, now, whenever they first came available. If I were still hunting the New Mexico mountains, I'd serious think about getting one of those Burris scopes with the integral laser. However, by he time I'm financially able to hunt out there, I don't know if I'll be physically able. I'm in pretty good shape, but the Guadalupes are some rough country for hiking. I'm getting a bit long in the tooth. My forays into the marsh for my beloved ducks are getting tougher on me every year. I'd think a rangefinding scope, though, would be about as quick as it gets. I do the range the trees thing, too, but usually from a stand. Out there, I think ranging the animal might be more important.

 

[MCgunner]

By the way, spring bear is good-not great, good. Fall bear that have been eating fish are to be avoided at all costs.
The best is fall bear in the interior that have no access to salmon, and have been fattening up all summer on Berry's and ground squirrel's

So, bear are kinda like ducks. If they eat a lot of fish, they're kinda crappy.

 

[exbiologist]

Alright, another .358 Norma fan. We are few and far between. I built mine off a Rem 700 action, 24" Douglas barrel, B&C Alaska Hunter II stock (similar to what remington uses on the Ti, weighs 26 oz, I think), Shilen trigger, Talley Lightweights. Weighs 7.65 pounds scoped, kicks pretty substantial, but not unbearable. I actuallly disliked my .300 Ultra recoil a little more. I'm shooting 250 grain partitions at 2850 with IMR 4350 and RL 17. AA 3100 gives a little more velocity, but the accuracy isn't very good with it. Shoots 3/4". I love it.

 

[Gryffydd]

So, bear are kinda like ducks. If they eat a lot of fish, they're kinda crappy.

Kinda makes you think about eating fish yourself eh?

 

[bearmgc]

35 Rem, yes.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

So, bear are kinda like ducks. If they eat a lot of fish, they're kinda crappy.

Perfect comparison, but remember bears also eat rotten fish. Eat em? Hell I don't even want to be NEAR em.

 

[jk2008]

Just loaded 60 rounds of 35 Whelen (hopefully the pic uploaded properly). With a bit of luck, one of these will fill my elk tag later this month.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

I love my .35 Whelen Remington 700 Classic. I can't seem to get the Barnes TSX 225 bullets to shoot as well in as I can the Nosler Balistic Tip 225's and the Hornady 200 interlocks.

 

[PA Dave]

.35 Rem Marlin 336RC. Guns may come and guns may go, but that 47 year old .35 will always be mine until it passes to my kids or their kids. You could call me a fan.