AMMUNITION COST? Who reaps the windfall profit?

My question is who is profiting the most from the sale of ammo?

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tws3b2 said:
Can't just pick one on that list. Local gun shops near me are certainly gouging. Internet Sites like gunbroker are taking advantage of people big time. I have no doubt distributors are filling their pockets. And then there are the people that find ammo on the shelves, snatch it all up and sell at rediculous prices on the internet And gun forums. I would say most all between the manufacturers (including some consumers) and consumers. Some, like Dunham Sports, Walmart and others are not taking advantage when they have ammo. But that list is short. But, When all this is over and things get back to normal (AND it will) Ammo and gun sales will drop big time. Places like gunbroker and gun shops Will Hurt. Thats when I will "Remember". It will be a long time before they see another dime from me.
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And you know they are gouging how, exactly? Have you seen their sales invoices? Do you know what their overhead costs are and how they get paid? Being a small guy means they are last when it comes to getting resupplied compared to Walmart and the other big chains. Yep, go ahead and "remember", and then remember when those big stores stop selling ammo (the Walmarts in my areas all have) that the local guy you helped put out of business was your last resource................
 
jmorris said:
I haven’t stopped to see how bad they are trying to stick it to desperate people but it would have to be substantial profit for me to blow my weekends selling what ammunition I could lay out on the hood of a car.
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If you have not inquired as to the pricing those guys are offering , then your assumption of how bad they are "trying to stick it to desperate people" is meaningless and unfair.
I know of a roadside stand where I can buy fresh sweet corn for about $1.50 per dozen. Not a path to instant riches for the vendor.
For some folks , sitting by the side of the road and occasionally chatting with strangers makes for a good day.

And , if in fact their prices are high - DON"T BUY FROM THEM.
 
Waveski said:
If you have not inquired as to the pricing those guys are offering , then your assumption of how bad they are "trying to stick it to desperate people" is meaningless and unfair.
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I highly doubt it. If every store within an hours drive in any direction has nothing and the hood is still covered in ammunition by mid afternoon on Saturday and there isn’t a team of people replenishing stock from nearby 18 wheelers, that’s pretty much all I need to know.

More of an inference than assumption one is without proof the other is drawn using evidence and reasoning.
 
Who reaps windfall? UPS or Fedex thats who. Most Cannot ship one (1) round for under $20. Its all the added charges like Pickup, DAS, ORMD, Fuel and other stuff that gouges the H out of you!!!!
 
George P said:
And you know they are gouging how, exactly? Have you seen their sales invoices? Do you know what their overhead costs are and how they get paid? Being a small guy means they are last when it comes to getting resupplied compared to Walmart and the other big chains. Yep, go ahead and "remember", and then remember when those big stores stop selling ammo (the Walmarts in my areas all have) that the local guy you helped put out of business was your last resource................
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How Exactly do I know the are gouging? When I see places like Dunham's charging regular prices and gun shops just a couple miles down the road charging 3 times more. When I Pay $23 for a 22lr brick At Dunham's and the same day see the Exact same on gunbroker for $230. What goes around, comes around. Take advantage of people and they will remember. That "Local Guy" is not so worried about his business future. If he was he would not take advantage of his customers today.
 
And again, Dunham's is a large organization with greater buying power and buying in larger volumes. If you did not pay the asking price at the other store, how did you get gouged?
 
Dunham's, Academy, Scheels and other lock in prices with large scale supply contracts. While they may have some escalator clauses, producers are obligated to fill these contracts and that is why some are seeing ammunition on the shelf at relatively reasonable prices. Outfits like SG Ammo, Targetsports and others could also have contracts and may to some degree, but also take advantage of "spot market" opportunities to take large quantities of ammo from foreign and domestic suppliers who for a variety of reasons have more inventory than is optimal, which can free up space and capital to purchase metals and powder on contract. As previously mentioned, huge jumps are just greedy people wanting paid for nothing, an all too common trait these days.
 
George P said:
And again, Dunham's is a large organization with greater buying power and buying in larger volumes. If you did not pay the asking price at the other store, how did you get gouged?
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I tried to explain that to no avail many post ago. :)

Just got back from a small local grocery store and the low end ground beef (80% Lean) was up to $4.99 a Lb. Everything is up including fuel cost that gets things from Point A to Point B. Some people need to look beyond ammunition and how things work.

Today I'll try and get some practice ammo loaded for son and daughter-in-law.

Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to buy ammo from gougers of scalpers.

Ron
 
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Only 40 miles? So? I drive more than that to go shoot 5-stand - at least 2x/week, so I'm spending more on gas than ammo. I hit every Walmart, gun shop, pawn shop along the way to see what it available. If I do not like the price, I do not buy and WOW! I did not get "gouged" (an amazing concept for some to grasp, I know.;))
Shanghai, plan a road trip for the day, hit any possible places on the way and enjoy a lovely roadtrip. You might get lucky, you might not, but you won't know unless you try.
 
I get that; I live in one of those places. My point is, when Trump was in office and everything was readily available, one email and BOOM, 1-2K of 9mm shows up with a few days from TargetSports to my door for cheap. Now, I have go scrounging around. Even at Academy, when they have ammo, your basic 9mm that was about $9 or $10/box in 2018 is now about $17 and I do not see it coming down any time soon. I am pretty set on handgun ammo and I really do not shoot rifle, BUT I DO shoot a LOT of shotgun so the disappearance of basic target loads has me baffled. I guess some folks figured even target loads will work in a pinch inside the home - doesn't mean I do not go out of my way each trip to check to see if some is around - in these times, it is what one has to do.
 
George P said:
I get that; I live in one of those places. My point is, when Trump was in office and everything was readily available, one email and BOOM, 1-2K of 9mm shows up with a few days from TargetSports to my door for cheap. Now, I have go scrounging around. Even at Academy, when they have ammo, your basic 9mm that was about $9 or $10/box in 2018 is now about $17 and I do not see it coming down any time soon. I am pretty set on handgun ammo and I really do not shoot rifle, BUT I DO shoot a LOT of shotgun so the disappearance of basic target loads has me baffled. I guess some folks figured even target loads will work in a pinch inside the home - doesn't mean I do not go out of my way each trip to check to see if some is around - in these times, it is what one has to do.
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Not just ammo -- its everything!!! If I wanted to collapse an economy and bring a nation to it knees this is exactly what they taught us in Intel school 40 years ago. Day one of training was the importance of the "dissemination of false information". That said I do see 9mm. 45acp, sks ammo and others on the once barren shelves at local Bi mart. The pistol cases are completely full of mostly CCW autos with
 
Reloadron said:
I tried to explain that to no avail many post ago. :)

Just got back from a small local grocery store and the low end ground beef (80% Lean) was up to $4.99 a Lb. Everything is up including fuel cost that gets things from Point A to Point B. Some people need to look beyond ammunition and how things work.

Today I'll try and get some practice ammo loaded for son and daughter-in-law.

Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to buy ammo from gougers of scalpers.

Ron
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Bottom line. Dunham's could have been charging 3 times and more for ammo. Just like the gun shops. But, they Do Not. They have held at their normal Prices. That I will remember. That is why they will be my first choice for anything firearms related.
 
Again, and because of their SIZE, they were able to, while your local mom and pop store cannot. And they will be your first choice until they're not; or bought out, or have an anti-gun person placed as CO like Dick's, and then what? Lots of folks were spoiled by the abnormally low prices. I remember pricing like this from the 80s when the paychecks were half what they are now (and the main reason I started reloading).
 
The wholesalers have the market by the balls. They have set contracts with the manufacturers but can charge what they want to the retailer. Plus the online ammo dealers also have contracts and can out bid local dealers.

The wholesalers and online dealers can buy by the truck load. Your local gun shop is lucky to afford a pallet at a time.
 
N9NWO said:
The wholesalers have the market by the balls. They have set contracts with the manufacturers but can charge what they want to the retailer. Plus the online ammo dealers also have contracts and can out bid local dealers.

The wholesalers and online dealers can buy by the truck load. Your local gun shop is lucky to afford a pallet at a time.
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More like a few cases at a time - IF he can get them at all. And with that sparse selection, he has to figure out a way to be able to provide a little for everyone all the while trying to keep the doors open
 
We are seeing more and more now that the manufacturers have caught up on contracts and now have access. Within a month or two they will be two months a head of contracts. In the meantime we will see more ammo on the spot market. My local Rural King is seeing a pallet or two weekly now. It looks like they will have their shelves fuller by hunting season in the fall. But many calibers might take until November 2022 to come back.

Right now the main lines and side lines are set up for the contracts. As they get a stockpile of a couple of months worth look for the side lines to switch over to the oddball calibers.
 
Right NOW, the lines are running all of the basic stuff - 9mm, 40, 45acp, 223, 308, some 300BO and 6.5CM.
Hopefully, they will soon start with more shotgun, rimfire and the next level of popular cartridges.
 
George P said:
And again, Dunham's is a large organization with greater buying power and buying in larger volumes.
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But 2 years ago the online vendors could undercut Dunham's. The question is who reaps the windfall when online prices go from $10 to $40? In the mean time big box retail has gone from $12 a box to $18. How can one vendor sell for $18 and make money and another vendor needs to sell for $40 because inflation?

Saying that Dunham's has greater buying power doesn't answer the question and is not a logical answer. During normal times their prices are higher than many online vendors.
 
reddog81 said:
But 2 years ago the online vendors could undercut Dunham's. The question is who reaps the windfall when online prices go from $10 to $40? In the mean time big box retail has gone from $12 a box to $18. How can one vendor sell for $18 and make money and another vendor needs to sell for $40 because inflation?

Saying that Dunham's has greater buying power doesn't answer the question and is not a logical answer. During normal times their prices are higher than many online vendors.
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Because online vendors do not have the costs and overhead of brick and mortar stores. This is about comparing local small mom and pop versus big box major company. I have seen very little available online, especially in the large quantities I used to buy. Local stores do not get the price breaks that the large guys get. They do not get placed at the top of the list for supplies when there are some going out the door. Small lGS live on thin overall margins, unlike Walmart or any other where they are able to survive one shortage by selling things not in short supply
 
George P said:
Because online vendors do not have the costs and overhead of brick and mortar stores. This is about comparing local small mom and pop versus big box major company. I have seen very little available online, especially in the large quantities I used to buy. Local stores do not get the price breaks that the large guys get. They do not get placed at the top of the list for supplies when there are some going out the door. Small lGS live on thin overall margins, unlike Walmart or any other where they are able to survive one shortage by selling things not in short supply
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That doesn't really make sense. If a big box store can sell for $18 a box and make a profit, clearly they are paying less than $18 a box. If a smaller store needs to sell at $40 a box just to make a profit something is seriously wrong.
 
George P said:
Because online vendors do not have the costs and overhead of brick and mortar stores. This is about comparing local small mom and pop versus big box major company. I have seen very little available online, especially in the large quantities I used to buy. Local stores do not get the price breaks that the large guys get. They do not get placed at the top of the list for supplies when there are some going out the door. Small lGS live on thin overall margins, unlike Walmart or any other where they are able to survive one shortage by selling things not in short supply
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I get emails everyday with 9mm for sale. My most recent one is from Palmetto State 2 hours ago - 200 rounds for $150 and no quantity restrictions. If they have no overhead why are they selling for more than the big box stores and LGS? Where does the extra $20+ per box go?
 
Of course it makes sense. If I am a big chain and I buy ammo by the truckload to send out to my stores, I get a much greater price break than the small store buying 20-50 boxes IF I can even get that much. Remember, those big box stores sell a whole lot more than the small store and sell a wide variety of "sporting goods" so a downturn in one area is offset with an upturn in another.
 
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