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Old Model Blackhawk frame size question

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high country

high country

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Sep 20, 2007
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Location
St. Louis, MO
I have a strong hankerin' for an old model Blackhawk in .357. Before I go bidding on anything, I wanted to confirm something about frame sizes.

My understanding is that all old model (3 screw) .357s are built on the smaller cylinder frame, of a similar size to the SAA. The change from the flat top to the ears in the .357 was just that modification to the top strap and a change to the grip frame (XR3 to XR3-RED). The larger frame was used for the .44 and .45 cartridges.

That all changed with the changeover to the new model, but I am specifically interested in the old model.

I know we have some Blackhawk experts here, would someone mind confirming that or setting me straight if I am wrong on that? It would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks all for confirming that. I was 95%, but there is so much garbage on the interwebs I thought I would double check with a source I trust.

Thanks also for the great pictures!

The hunt is on for a decent shooter grade example that I can tune up and use for field carry. Even better would be a basket case one that I could bring back to life. I know things are a bit nuts at the moment, and it can range a lot, but what is a reasonable value for a decent example (doesn't need to be super nice, it'll get used)? I feel like if I could put my hands on a mechanically solid one with moderate finish wear one around five bills I would be content, not sure if that is high or low.
 
Man I wish you were local. I happen to have a three screw 357 I need t sell. Tagging because I want to know a value range as well.

And as you know, an unconverted 3 screw will be worth more than a converted one.
 
Just for imterest, I have a 3 screw (1968) model (unmodified :) ) with a REDesigned frame which seems to be atypical as I have yet to purchase grips for it that fit correctly. The gripes are all a bit large and need to be reduced at the front and shortened a tad. I'm guessing the fgrip frame ion this is smaller than if it were to spec.
 
Last edited:
high country said:
Thanks all for confirming that. I was 95%, but there is so much garbage on the interwebs I thought I would double check with a source I trust.
Click to expand...
Lord, you got that right!


high country said:
The hunt is on for a decent shooter grade example that I can tune up and use for field carry. Even better would be a basket case one that I could bring back to life. I know things are a bit nuts at the moment, and it can range a lot, but what is a reasonable value for a decent example (doesn't need to be super nice, it'll get used)? I feel like if I could put my hands on a mechanically solid one with moderate finish wear one around five bills I would be content, not sure if that is high or low.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of variation because some guns are more collectible than others. The 4 5/8" guns tend to be higher than the more common 6 1/2" guns. A real nice flat-top is going to be at least $600 and up. For example, I paid $750 for this 1958 model in near-new condition. I added the grips and color case hammer.

IMG_0095b.jpg

The top gun in this picture is a 1961 model that cost me $550 3yrs ago. It's probably a 95% gun.

The middle gun is something of an anomaly with regards to pricing. It is from the Jeff Quinn collection and it went to nearly $800, bidding against a known Ruger collector. The frame has been refinished, the grip frame is nickel plated and it wears custom mesquite grips.

The bottom gun is a more common "eared" Old Model from 1970. It was $300 but that was 16yrs ago.

IMG_0287b.jpg
 
greyling22 said:
And as you know, an unconverted 3 screw will be worth more than a converted one.
Click to expand...

Agreed, a conversion would be a deal breaker unless all of the original parts were included.

CraigC said:
There's a lot of variation because some guns are more collectible than others. The 4 5/8" guns tend to be higher than the more common 6 1/2" guns. A real nice flat-top is going to be at least $600 and up. For example, I paid $750 for this 1958 model in near-new condition. I added the grips and color case hammer.

View attachment 999035

The top gun in this picture is a 1961 model that cost me $550 3yrs ago. It's probably a 95% gun.

The middle gun is something of an anomaly with regards to pricing. It is from the Jeff Quinn collection and it went to nearly $800, bidding against a known Ruger collector. The frame has been refinished, the grip frame is nickel plated and it wears custom mesquite grips.

The bottom gun is a more common "eared" Old Model from 1970. It was $300 but that was 16yrs ago.

View attachment 999036
Click to expand...

CraigC, thanks for the summary there, that is a nice collection you have. I am guessing that the days of $300 old models may be behind us unless a person is luckier than I tend to be. But, that suggests that my initial guess isn't too far off that with a little legwork and waiting it should be possible to find a decent example for around $500 especially if I can live with a 6.5" barrel. I am not necessarily against that, although the shorter barrel looks a little more proportional and it seems like a 6.5" barrel would be a bit muzzle heavy without a .45" hole through there. As long as I start with something a little beat up without much collector value, the barrel length can be changed if push comes to shove.
 
Afraid so. The $300 guns are now $400 and $500 guns. Even when they shouldn't be. A lot of guys in gun shops know just enough to get in trouble. So many eared Old Models are thought to be collectible "flat-tops". For me, even for the base gun for a custom, it's sometimes better to pay a little more for a flat-top. Because it's $100-$150 to get a nice XR3 grip frame. Which is the reason I bought at least two of those four guns.
 
The frame size may be similar, but the Blackhawk has a thicker top strap, and probably some other areas were beefed up compared to the Colt SAA.

j7JRfbY.jpg
 
To be clear; are most 3 screw flat top .357s XR3 grip frame and the “eared” 3 screws XR3-RED? Is the XR3 smaller? I just handled a new model .357 and the grip felt blocky and huge to me. What grip frame does the new model have?
 
1KPerDay said:
To be clear; are most 3 screw flat top .357s XR3 grip frame and the “eared” 3 screws XR3-RED? Is the XR3 smaller? I just handled a new model .357 and the grip felt blocky and huge to me. What grip frame does the new model have?
Click to expand...
Correct, not most but all.The transition to the ears, XR3-RED and aluminum ejector housing was made at the same time in 1963. I don't like to characterize the XR3 as "smaller". The XR3-RED has more room behind the triggerguard. The grip was essentially stretched backward, before curving down. All the New Model Blackhawks, Vaqueros and short barreled Supers have the XR3-RED pattern. Only the New Model flat-tops and the New Vaquero have the steel version of the XR3, which wasn't introduced until 2005.
 
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