Court ruling on dealer handgun sales to 18-year-olds

Howland937 said:

I guess I was under the impression that handgun possession by anyone under age 21 was fully illegal.

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Many hold that notion.
Really, 18 USC 922 just forbids FFL, Licensed Dealers, from selling under 21. Several States have purchase or possession regulations for "under age" and that's a quilt requiring a map and footnotes/

This should be as simple as “age of Majority” vs the “age of Minority”. You are, or you are not. In the majority, all the rights and privilege thereof…should go to movie tickets, alcohol, etc.

This is good news. Since the age of adulthood is 18 years old that is when you should be able to purchase any firearm.




https://nypost.com/2021/07/13/appea...?utm_source=messages&utm_campaign=android_nyp









Split in the circuits also.

Well it makes for an interesting headline.

What these cases do is set it up so the Supreme Court has to hear the case.

If two Federal Appellant Courts reach two different decisions, somebody has to figure out which one is correct under the Constitution...

IIRC, back when Missouri still made you go get a pistol permit from your county sheriff, you had to be 21 to possess a handgun. That "Jim Crowe" law finally died around 2003-2004. Now it is perfectly legal for a person between 18 and 21 to possess/buy a handgun through private sale in Missouri.

And yes it depends on the state of residence on if a person that is at least 18 but under 21 can buy/possess a handgun. As already stated it is illegal for anyone under 21 to purchase a hand gun (or bare receiver) through a licensed dealer/FFL. Always check both federal AND state laws to stay legal.

In the law, a line must sometimes be drawn. But there must be a reason why constitutional rights cannot be enjoyed until a certain age. Our nation’s most cherished constitutional rights vest no later than 18.

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This begs the question to me, does it (Federal Law) say anywhere that an 18 year old is an adult.
If so this should apply to everything, alcohol and tobacco being the obvious. If not then isn’t his point moot, because it does say in the NFA, 21, a line IS drawn.

I’ll also ad just to muddy the waters more in AL a 18 year old is a minor, adulthood starts at 19.

DeepSouth said:

This begs the question to me, does it (Federal Law) say anywhere that an 18 year old is an adult.
If so this should apply to everything, alcohol and tobacco being the obvious. If not then isn’t his point moot, because it does say in the NFA, 21, a line IS drawn.

I’ll also ad just to muddy the waters more in AL a 18 year old is a minor, adulthood starts at 19.

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If that is the case then anyone under 21 should not be able to join the military. Either that or make it the same, IE if you are old enough to serve your country then you are old enough to own handguns and also buy alcohol and tobacco products. Too many double standards here.

Florida's New Gun Law Changes the Age to Purchase All Firearms to 21 - U.S. LawShield (uslawshield.com)

SB 7026 became law in Florida on March 9, 2018 when Governor Scott signed the bill. Since then we have received numerous questions regarding the effects of the new laws. Section 12 of the bill amends Florida Statute §790.065 to ban the sale of any firearm to a person under 21 years of age. The text of the new law creates a conflict with §790.17 and leaves unclear whether or not a person between 18 – 21 may purchase a firearm in a private sale.

I wonder if this ruling will help the NRA's fight to repeal SB7026?

12Bravo20 said:

If that is the case then anyone under 21 should not be able to join the military. Either that or make it the same, IE if you are old enough to serve your country then you are old enough to own handguns and also buy alcohol and tobacco products. Too many double standards here.

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I don’t disagree, but if no law says “this age is an adult” then other laws are free to have different restrictions for age limits. Not that they should, (that’s another debate) there would just be no legal reason for them to all have the same age.

DeepSouth said:

This begs the question to me, does it (Federal Law) say anywhere that an 18 year old is an adult.
If so this should apply to everything, alcohol and tobacco being the obvious. If not then isn’t his point moot, because it does say in the NFA, 21, a line IS drawn.

I’ll also ad just to muddy the waters more in AL a 18 year old is a minor, adulthood starts at 19.

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You already have the answer. The 10th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution gives the bulk of the day to day laws to the individual states. Which is why different states have different views on 'age of consent' and 'age of majority'. Constitutionally, the U. S. Government does not have the right to decree adulthood.

I know this is contrary and anathematic to the large central government types. We'll see how long the Constitution is used and when the nation slides fully into dictatorship.

Good ruling. If you are old enough to die for your country, you are entitled to all Constitutional Rights. I could not vote in the 1960 presidential election because I was 19 and voting age was 21. I had already served 14 months in the Corps. I recall feeling angry about being disenfranchised.

This is far from "over". The Justice Department will almost certainly ask the 4th Circuit for an en banc ruling -- which has a strong likelihood of going the opposite way (in which case, both the 4th and 5th Circuits will have agreed on the statue). If an en banc review overturns the panel, it will probably end there. If the en banc ruling matches the panel's - or if the Court declines an en banc review - then it is likely to make it to SCOTUS.

States Rights vs the ongoing use of men aged 17 and older to defend the nation. With parental consent you could be thru Marine Basic and deployed as a machine gunner in combat yet still under 18. This isn't a Constitutional issue of when our founding fathers drew a line in the sand and included language to prohibit young men from serving their nation - it was a State issue as not delegated specifically to the Federal Government.

As such the 17 year old could return as an 18 year old combat veteran yet in some states still not able to vote, drink, or buy firearms. Not to forget unable to conceal carry due to some state laws, too, and when he reaches the legal age in his state, forced to take a class ($100) pay a license fee ($$$) and be told he's not capable of doing it right even tho he was clearing houses in Fallujah. But he could marry, have children, build a house, own land, all before age 21.

Most of the folks who make arguments about "must be 21" are forgetting the reality of life outside their controlled metros. Wedding presents may include firearms, it's legal to gift them. Therefore, the government already "approves" of the right to keep and bear arms as long as the kids don't have to pay for it or go thru NICS? If anything I think this argument would influence the governments favor, as they could then track ownership.

We're usually much better off not allowing government any say at all. It only perpetuates loss of our rights. Look at the Form 4999 Brace paperwork and sort out just how clear and concise the ATF makes things. Not. Yet some would allow them to enforce who can or can't purchase firearms. At the age of 15 I was shooting International .22 in matches sponsored by ROTC and my local school district. Armed thug on a rug. It's not a clear line in the sand.

I bought a MAK-90 at age 18, but had to wait until 21 to personally buy a Ruger Security-Six. Makes tons of sense...

Of course, I had free access to handguns starting at 13 or 14, so my perspective is a bit more libertarian than others.

18 year olds in 1950 are equivalent, regarding wisdom and emotional stability, to 25 year olds today.

All of the adulthood laws and rights such as voting, gun ownership, serving in the military, working in PD, etc should reflect the new 25 year old age.

The shift in age is the result of an easy life, mostly.

Ru4real said:

18 year olds in 1950 are equivalent, regarding wisdom and emotional stability, to 25 year olds today.

All of the adulthood laws and rights such as voting, gun ownership, serving in the military, working in PD, etc should reflect the new 25 year old age.

The shift in age is the result of an easy life, mostly.

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This is a disturbing opinion. What decade were you 18?

Has anyone found the actual ruling?
The text of that being germane (and required by the Legal Forum rules).

@CapnMac

Here's the full brief:

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...iYovjBKLn7j0xlPsjbDT8QYJ3Jsvasgnv6z1GFZz0ie7g

This being Legal, we really need the text of the ruling, lest we simple debate what ever the journalists have provided.

The age of Majority is not a solidly-defined thing, either now or in the time of the Founders.
In the late 1700s, Majority occurred at emancipation from family, or at 25 in the case of estates and land ownership.
Enfranchisement was keyed to land ownership, which generally was limited to >25.
The commonweal was expected to perform Militia service, which was, loosely, 16-45.

The notion of 21 as an age of majority formed early in the 20th Century (and was complicated by Trusts and Contracts being >25 as well).

Finding solid footing in History is complicated for Majority.

P5 Guy said:

Florida's New Gun Law Changes the Age to Purchase All Firearms to 21 - U.S. LawShield (uslawshield.com)

SB 7026 became law in Florida on March 9, 2018 when Governor Scott signed the bill. Since then we have received numerous questions regarding the effects of the new laws. Section 12 of the bill amends Florida Statute §790.065 to ban the sale of any firearm to a person under 21 years of age. The text of the new law creates a conflict with §790.17 and leaves unclear whether or not a person between 18 – 21 may purchase a firearm in a private sale.

I wonder if this ruling will help the NRA's fight to repeal SB7026?

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Isn't it great that they make laws so clear! They jammed this whole thing down our throats after the Parkland Shooting in a matter a several weeks.
Yet, the shooter still has not gone to trial and been convicted! I wrote one of our Senators after the ruling and he claimed it would not prevent a private sale only from FFLs?? But the way it is worded is indeed confusing!


https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2018/07026

.455_Hunter said:

This is a disturbing opinion. What decade were you 18?

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Which part is disturbing to you, and why so?

I’m a parent of kids coming of age currently. I was pretty dumb and naive when I was 18. There are reasons one political party is pushing to have voting age reduced to 16.

.455_Hunter said:

This is a disturbing opinion. What decade were you 18?

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In his defense, many if not most people in child development put adolescents as ending in their mid 20’s. This hasn’t always been the case, people in general are maturing slower than in times past. This is why Obama care leaves kids on their parents ins until twenty something.

Now should laws be changed to reflect that, well that’s a different discussion.
I will say, if more 18 year olds have guns I believe theirs will be negative societal consequences, which doesn’t necessarily it shouldn’t happen.