Can the 1911 experts PLEASE explain this?

How does the thumb safety get to fire AND the grip safety get pressed, and trigger pulled while in a holster??

Not an expert, by far but I'll tell you my thoughts. First and foremost glad it was a scare and not a would or worse. Obviously don't carry it until it proves safe.

It takes the thumb safety being off, the grip safety depressed and a trigger pull to make that happen... in a 1911 that is working properly. That is to say, properly fitted sear/hammer engagement, thumb safety fitment, sear spring tension. The sear holds the hammer back generally with .020-025 inch of engagement. It really needs to be spot on.

I would be real careful to evaluate these relationships if you can do it yourself or get a 1911 pistol smith to do it. The 1911 safety checks involve testing for these things. The fact that you have a light strike in evidence suggests the trigger was not pulled but the hammer was let loose anyway. Which can happen if the safety is not fitted properly AND the sear/hammer is not fitted properly.

Be sure before risking life/limb

Man, I’m glad you’re ok first of all.

Other than that, I really don’t know. Following this thread in interest.

Also here is C&S checks page: https://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml

md7 said:

Other than that, I really don’t know. Following this thread in interest.

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Yeah, same man.

JMB must hold a grudge against you for such a freak accident.

First, thank goodness you’re safe, second, if you ever again notice that condition, immediately drop the mag and clear the chambered round.

The how can only be speculation. Is your plunger tube firmly staked so as to keep the detent’s pressure on the thumb safety? Is the detent a smart snick on and off when actuating the TS? Could it have inadvertently been switched off when holstering? Definitely run some checks after carefully clearing your pistol.

I am not a 1911 expert, but I did carry one for 2 tours in Nam. The pistol’s safety provisions seemed to make any accidental discharge impossible. Mud, dirt, sand, vegetation could not defeat the gun’s safety provisions. So my inexpert but experienced opinion is that your 1911 needs a checkup by a smith who knows thec1911 well.

I don't know what holster you use ontarget. But when i carry cocked and locked. I put the strap from mine over the hammer.

ontarget said:

. . . new to me Colt Commander . . .
. . . the safety was bumped off AND THE HAMMER WAS DOWN.

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So you have a previously owned pistol. Who knows what kind of mischief the previous owner got into while he was poking around inside the guts of this fine firearm.

Is the pistol a Series 80? If yes, then the firing pin safety mechanism prevented a negligent discharge but it needs to be tweaked to prevent any movement of the firing pin if this should happen again. The Series 80 firing pin safety should prevent any contact between the firing pin and the primer unless the trigger is pulled.

As @unclenunzie suggested, take it to a 'smith who knows 1911s ASAP. If the thumb safety has already been correctly fit, it can be tweaked to provide a a very positive on/off "snick" that will minimize the risk of it being accidentally swiped off. If it has not been correctly fit, ask the 'smith to replace it with a new one that he will correctly fit. He needs to inspect the grip safety to be sure its geometry is correct and that the sear spring is providing plenty of force to keep it pushed outward.

Ask the 'smith to examine the sear/hammer engagement surfaces for damage or poor geometry. Ask him to check for adequate trigger pre-travel (take up).

I'm not familiar with the holster company, could you identify which holster https://relentless-tactical.com/collections/holsters

Just throwing out an idea - if a slide holster (muzzle not covered), your movement pushed the gun up in the holster, and the soft leather sweat shield swept the thumb safety off. Further movement pushed the gun back down in the holster, where the leather got in the trigger guard (we've seen the Glock holster in the seated car), and the sweat shield bends over and disengages the grip safety.

I used to find the thumb safety off on my 1911's on a pretty regular basis, regardless of the holster type I was using. Its not unusual, especially if youre active.

You should always keep an eye on the grip safeties and vet them. Ive owned two, NIB 1911's in the past, and the grip safeties on both did not work out of the box. And, there is always the "perfect storm" sort of thing, where its never supposed to happen, but it does.

Whats strange about the hammer is, it made it past the half cock and the FP safety too. Not that the half cock is really meant as a safety.

Have you verified the FP safety is in fact there and working properly?

I think the key take-away is that what happened to you is impossible in a correctly functioning gun, as stated above.
Your gun has, I'm confident, a serious defect. Only a knowledgeable person can diagnose it, IMHO; this is not 'beginner' territory to learn on.

I had a Sig Nightmare that had the disconnector CRUMBLE after less than 500 rounds, so stuff happens.

Larry

The FP safety came about to eliminate the hammer striking the FP without the trigger being pulled. Ive carried both types of guns, and even with the TS off, and possibly the GS engaged, never had a hammer drop on either, unless the trigger was actually pulled.

If the hammer dropped without that interaction, then something is wrong with the gun.

How light is the trigger? Is it possible something is up there?

ontarget said:

The holster is the Defender.

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https://relentless-tactical.com/collections/holsters/products/defender-shield-glock-xd-sig

Whether my scenario actually happened, or not, that appears to be a soft leather holster, and I wouldn't use it.

See the soft, flexible leather working on this Glock trigger

https://www.itstactical.com/warcom/...her-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/

Holsters with a sweat shield, generally help protect the TS on guns like a 1911, but they still arent perfect. They do work a lot better than those without them though.

I went from leather to kydex when I was carrying 1911's, but for a different reason. I do believe kydex is the better choice too.

I also like the holster types that secure the gun to the belt so the holster doesnt move. That too eliminates possible problems.

The only way to figure this sort of thing out is by trying though. Most of us have a couple of boxes of holsters because of it too.

trackskippy said:

Holsters with a sweat shield, generally help protect the TS on guns like a 1911, but they still arent perfect. They do work a lot better than those without them though.

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There are a lot of exceptions, but in general, I disagree.

However finally determined, at present its safer to class the firearm as defective until proven otherwise.

It's used, therefore an earlier owner could have modified it. While someone may assume (accurately in many cases) the previous owner didn't monkey with it, there is no absolute guarantee and it's logically incorrect to insist they didn't. Let the evidence and forensic exam of the pistol by an expert confirm it. There have been many a post online where by all indications something "absolutely" did or did not happen - yet later it was proven the opposite. No discredit to anyone, it's just investigative procedure.

Once a qualified 1911 expert looks it over, then you have their expertise about what might have happened, and a course of action on how to fix it.

As a general note for us all, the 1911 is not a drop in parts on the kitchen table type of firearm. The exact circumstances of this particular malfunction show exactly how difficult they can be to get exactly right. While there is a big upsurge in building your own, it is nonetheless skilled gunsmith level work. Just assembling an AR or P320 - as many of us have done - won't cut the mustard putting together a 1911.

I would be sending Colt an email. Colt or a very qualified 1911 'smith needs to be looking at firearm.

JTQ said:

There are a lot of exceptions, but in general, I disagree.

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There are always exceptions, but Ive always found the sweat shields protect the gun better than those without them.

This is a Blade Tech IWB I carried for about a decade. At some point, a piece of the sweat shield broke off, and its a bit shorter, but you can see it still covers a good bit of the thumb safety.


Same gun and holster (right), and a spare (left), thats undamaged. Prior to breaking, the sweat shield completely covered that side of the gun, including the safety.