Muzzleloader vs modern cartridge hunting

I am a 30-30 fan. I use it very similar to a muzzleloader. I'm not a huge ML fan, but I ain't a hi pressure long range fan either. I'm an inbetweener I reckon.

In my experience .54 caliber Hawken, patched round ball, 90 grains of powder. 75 yard heart/lung shot. Bang, flop. May try to get back up but wont make it. 30-06, 57 grains of IMR 4350, 165 grain BTBT. 75 yard heart/lung shot. Bang, flop. Wont try to get back up. Both leave an exit wound but you get more ruined meat with the 30-06. 150 yards, nods go to the 30-06 in making a dead right there kill.

The advantage of a cartridge arm isn't the ballistics, it's the rapid reload. The first deer I shot with a thirty thirty, I hit her twice before she went behind some cedars. I wasn't sure of the first shot, though it was fine, turns out. I could have killed the other two deer that was accompanying the doe I shot, if I'd needed the meat.

Lnf Crzr said:

Compairison
Seems like the 54 wouldn’t be far off the killing power of the 30/06.

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At short ranges it's just as deadly. Kinda funny but at even shorter ranges say 30 yards the 30-06 kills them just as dead but the 165 grain BTBT leaves a smaller exit wound than the entrance wound. My guess is the bullet fragments when it hits. I don't know if you can see it in this pic but the exit wound is a little round hole in the right shoulder.



I enlarged it so maybe you can se it ok.

I have hunted using muzzleloaders for the past 30+ years. I have been using modern muzzleloaders for the past 20. I do not in any way feel under-gunned using a modern inline muzzle-loader. They are extremely effective. My longest shot was just inside of 250 yards. Most of my shots are typically 100 to 125 yard shots.

Inside 100 yards, the ML gives up nothing to the 30-06 based on my experience. Somewhere past that, ballistics take over. When I go elk hunting in late rifle season and shots may be 300 yards or more, I don't take my round ball guns.

Modern center fire rounds give the hunter the same advantage they give to the military: flatter trajectory and better probability of hitting the target, particularly at extended ranges.

The effectiveness of the projectile, if placed properly, is significantly closer between these two weapon systems than most think.

YMMV,
Dave

Most .54 muzzle loaders shooting a round ball are quite deadly out to 150 yards if you know your trajectory but the big difference is with sighting capabilities. Most modern guns have scopes, where as traditional muzzle loaders use iron sights. At 150 yards, the iron sights are at a big disadvantage, but inside of 100 yards a traditional muzzle loader .54 with iron sights can hold its own.

Heres my thoughts. Im a TC Triumph/7mm mag guy.

7mm load is 140gns ~2950 chronoed. I always go double lung, never a bang flop but never run more than 30yards. The TC, I use 120gns for Blackhorn over a 45 300gn Hornady Bonded. Most get knocked right over and I have had 3x double's using that bullet when they are lined up under 20 yards. I like to think of it as an economical solution.

I have an anecdotal comparison after today. I shot a cull buck with my "new to me" CVA Wolf, 50 cal, 250gr power belt and 120gr of Pyrodex RS, chronographed at +1800fps.
Heart shot with no exit, but the ballistic tip was lodged under the skin. He ran about 40yds and crashed.
Year before last, I made an almost identical shot with my 30-06 using Hornady Precision Hunter. Heart shot with no exit from about 40yds . He also ran about 40yds and crashed.
However, the damage done by the Power Belt was much more massive. I would go so far to say that concerning lethality and heart shots, the ML is superior at close ranges , I.E.100yds or less.
I suspect the 30-06 would be superior with a shoulder shot, maybe I'll be fortunate enough to try one with the ML before this season ends.

I didn't know Robert Redford was left handed. I wonder how easy that was to find out there on the frontier. Looks like he did it though.

chickasaw_hunter said:

I didn't know Robert Redford was left handed. I wonder how easy that was to find out there on the frontier. Looks like he did it though.

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You could have had one built provided you could afford it.

"bullets don't get any smaller" equally short wide bullets don't penetrate as well as long narrow bullets.
Blowing a bigger hole is always preferable in terms of causing quick incapacitation.
Velocity shock is also a real thing in my experience.
Bullet selection and expected resistance/impact velocity maters also, perhaps more than cal.


I've shot a lot of 40-60lb animals and one 120lb animal with 240gr xtp mags at 1900 from my inline muzzleloader. I have shot a couple 600-800lb animals with a .458 Socom, 405gr Remington bullets at 1650.....not a muzzle loader but that's pretty close to a top end load for a .50 cal

I've shot the same size animals with everything from .223s to a .375 Ruger.

On animals under 100lbs especially tough little suckers like the feral goats, the muzzle loaders do not open as large a hole or kill as quickly as faster small bore bullets (giving similar impacts). On the 120lb deer I hit both shoulders and stoned it. Damage was not as impressive as it's would have been if hit with the type of rounds I usually use (fast heavy for cal 7mms) but was crippling and the deer was dead by the time I reloaded and walked the 100-120yds over to it.
On the two feral cows i shot with the .458 SOCOM the rounds out penetrated the 7s I'd used upto this point and one shot broke both shoulder. Both animals went down like a ton of bricks.

The other feral cows I've shot have taken 1-7rounds from magnum 7mms to put down, the only other cal I've used on them was a 6.5 and that took 1 Round.

In MY experience I'd be comfortable shooting anything I hunt inside of 150yds with my muzzleloader, but I'd be more likely to have to tailor bullets, or shot placement for lighter animals. Equally below 160gr class 7mm I have to tailor my bullet choices for heavier animals the same way.
Thus my conclusion is used within their limits (velocity/trajectory/penetration) "traditional" black powder muzzle loaders are as effective as a single round from a more "modern" small bore design.
The small bores are simply better at bending the rules, and once you get into hunting very large dangerous game the medium and large bore smokeless cartridges arms have a significant advantage.

LoonWulf said:

.458 Sodom

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Getting Biblical on their posteriors?

brewer12345 said:

Getting Biblical on their posteriors?

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It appears my tablet believes I should have! Lol

Il go fix it