Successful Muzzleloader Deer Hunt

[Dave Markowitz]

Pennsylvania's early muzzleloader antlerless deer season was last week. PA was one of the first states to have a muzzleloader-only season but for decades this started the day after Christmas and was flintlock-only. That season is still available and is for antlered or antlerless deer, but the early antlerless-only season is a more recent addition. In the early season, any .44 caliber or larger muzzleloader is legal, so a lot of guys use percussion or inline rifles.

My friend N. owns about 65 acres in Tioga County, which is in north central PA, just south of NY. We went up there last week to catch the tail end of the early antlerless season.

Late Friday, he took a shot at a doe but it was a clean miss. He shot high because the sights on his rifle are difficult to see especially in the wrong light. (He has plans to fix this.)

Yesterday morning we got on stand. At 8:05 AM I heard a shot from the direction where he posted up and when I got to him, saw that he'd bagged a button buck. The .440 round ball from his Euroarms Kentuckian Carbine flintlock had passed through both lungs and must have hit a major blood vessel, because the deer bled out almost immediately and collapsed after running 15 feet.

I went and got my truck while N. field dressed it. We loaded it into the back of my Xterra and took it up to the campsite where we skinned and quartered it, and put it on ice. We had that done by lunchtime.

After eating lunch, then relaxing for awhile with a Guiness and a cigar each, we headed back out to a different part of the property at about 3:00 PM (closing time was 6:49 PM). He came with me to help with dressing and dragging out a deer if I got lucky.

At about 5:40 PM I had to stand up and stretch. I noticed a doe grazing in the field in front of us, about 60 or 70 yards out. I sat back down and a second doe appeared. I signaled to N. that we had a couple deer in sight.

Both of the deer were large. There's a cornfield and a couple pear trees across the street from N.'s land so they've been feeding well.

For a few minutes I'd peer over the burlap blind as the deer slowly worked their way towards us. At one point both were broadside but one was behind the other and I didn't want to risk wounding it if I shot the one closest to me.

Eventually, I had a clear broadside shot presented to me and I stood up to clear the blind, placed my front sight bead behind her shoulder and touched off the shot. The .490 round ball from my Cabela's (Investarm) Hawken caplock hit right where I aimed.

Strangely, the other deer didn't immediately bolt. Rather, it stomped and snorted at us, and even advanced a little towards us before turning and running. If N. hadn't already tagged out that morning he probably could have shot this one.

As we eventually discovered, the ball didn't exit and because it was a high lung shot the blood trail was poor, but we tracked it down in about 15 minutes. We decided not to wait before tracking it because we were running short on daylight. Normally we'd wait 30 minutes to allow the deer to lay down and expire.

Something we noticed on these deer was that they both had large quantities of fat reserves under their skin. I saved a gallon Ziploc bag of fat to be rendered down into deer tallow, which will make good patch lube.

N. texted me this morning. In order to get the legs into his meat bins after he got home, he had to debone them because they wouldn't fit into them. Between the two deer it's about 80 pounds of deboned meat with the fat trimmed off. I'll be going over to his house next weekend to help finish processing them.

We always try to learn lessons and do better. N. is going to put better sights on his rifle. I'm planning to experiment with a heavier powder charge in my rifle to improve the chances of a complete pass through if I shoot another large deer with it. (I was shooting 70 grains of 3Fg Olde Eynsford BP. I'll try 80 grains.)

 

[4v50 Gary]

Well done and good for you to render the fat.

 

[hawg]

I had the same rifle for years. I used 90 grains and still didn't always get an exit wound.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I had the same rifle for years. I used 90 grains and still didn't always get an exit wound.

I think in addition to a heavier powder charge than I used I will also try conicals. I have a box of Hornady Great Plains bullets that I've been meaning to try for years, and may also pick up some Maxi balls. I really didn't like the poor blood trail. My concern is with the larger deer we see in northern PA or shots past 50 yards. The deer in SE PA tend to be smaller. My friend has shot 2 now at 30 yards or under with a .440 patched ball and gotten complete penetration on both.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I think that more velocity with a round ball can mostly produce more expansion, rather than penetration. "Diminishing returns". So yeah, see if she shoots a slug.

I shoot that "Great Plains" bullet in my .50", it's a bad boy and I expect would go through both sides of anything. It's a 385 grain bullet, as you know. I haven't shot that rifle for a while, but I think it liked 85 grains under that bullet.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

After eating lunch, then relaxing for awhile with a Guiness and a cigar each,

Cigars. Don't leave home without them.

 

[alsaqr]

Congrats on the big doe.

 

[woodnbow]

I think that more velocity with a round ball can mostly produce more expansion, rather than penetration. "Diminishing returns". So yeah, see if she shoots a slug.

I shoot that "Great Plains" bullet in my .50", it's a bad boy and I expect would go through both sides of anything. It's a 385 grain bullet, as you know. I haven't shot that rifle for a while, but I think it liked 85 grains under that bullet.

Others have mentioned that they see better penetration at longer range and lower velocities. More expansion at closer range and higher velocities. Ball does shed velocity quickly and I’ve seen velocity and trajectory tables that indicate starting velocity doesn’t carry up very well at long range.
I believe that that low ballistic coefficient is part of the reason Ball and flat pointed bullets are so effective on game.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Others have mentioned that they see better penetration at longer range and lower velocities. More expansion at closer range and higher velocities. Ball does shed velocity quickly and I’ve seen velocity and trajectory tables that indicate starting velocity doesn’t carry up very well at long range.
I believe that that low ballistic coefficient is part of the reason Ball and flat pointed bullets are so effective on game.

And that is probably where the big calibers "shine", you don't have to, or it's not as important to start them fast. As long as you have a reasonable trajectory, the weight of the ball will carry it through. Smaller calibers you want to have a good muzzle velocity, as it's going to shed a lot of velocity being a sphere. ? Or not. Just thunk of that.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

And that is probably where the big calibers "shine", you don't have to, or it's not as important to start them fast. As long as you have a reasonable trajectory, the weight of the ball will carry it through. Smaller calibers you want to have a good muzzle velocity, as it's going to shed a lot of velocity being a sphere. ? Or not. Just thunk of that.

Certainly. The heavier balls have more momentum.

 

[woodnbow]

And that is probably where the big calibers "shine", you don't have to, or it's not as important to start them fast. As long as you have a reasonable trajectory, the weight of the ball will carry it through. Smaller calibers you want to have a good muzzle velocity, as it's going to shed a lot of velocity being a sphere. ? Or not. Just thunk of that.

The tables I’ve seen. (I’m old, can’t remember now where I saw them.) seemed to indicate that the trajectory of a medium velocity 58 and a high velocity .50 were almost identical from 0 to 200 yards.

 

[earlthegoat2]

She’s a good looking doe and well done on taking her with the round ball.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

The tables I’ve seen. (I’m old, can’t remember now where I saw them.) seemed to indicate that the trajectory of a medium velocity 58 and a high velocity .50 were almost identical from 0 to 200 yards.

That would be true, I would guess that a round ball(s) would slow down at about the same rate regardless of size, the bigger ball would just have more inertia/momentum. Does seem like velocity would make a bigger difference in trajectory. ??

At any rate, that .600" ball of mine has sure passed through everything, and I think ya'll seen the pic where it sheared off the top of a steel fence post.

I've never shot big game with my Bess, just turkeys and grouse, but I bet that .690" ball really keeps on going. !!!!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

But anyhow, to get more back on topic I think that if a round ball is not passing through, and that's what one wants, and I'm a patched round ball fan, it probably might make more sense to see if one can get a slug/bullet to shoot well, rather than just increasing the velocity of the ball. ??? I think/suspect that increasing the velocity of the ball might just increase expansion.

The PA Conical (Hornady) might be an option, it loads pretty easy and only weighs 240 grains. Nice short bullet, although it does not shoot well in my TC, but super well in my Plains Pistol. The Hornady 385 grain Great Plains bullet shoots well in my TC, and with 80-90 grains under it (85 in my rifle) I'm thinking it would pass through anything and everything. Just a thought.

 

[Frulk]

Dave…Much respect for going the old school rifle route to bag that deer with a side lock.

Is that a Williams sight you added?

 

[hawg]

I tried Great Plains and Maxi Balls in my .50. They were probably accurate enough to hunt with but round balls were better. I even tried (cough) sabots but they tumbled.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I tried Great Plains and Maxi Balls in my .50. They were probably accurate enough to hunt with but round balls were better. I even tried (cough) sabots but they tumbled.

Dang it Hawg...never thought you would even touch a sabot! Or even look at one. Shame-shame-shame! I break out in a rash just seeing one. Yes, I would not be surprised if a patched ball, all things considered, would ultimately give the best accuracy. Slugs can take some work, same with patched ball, and sometimes it seems all you can get is "hunting accuracy". I get "good hunting accuracy" with the Great Plains in my TC, and not so good with round ball. The box says: "1" groups at 100 yards", I'm not sure how they can make that claim. I don't doubt that they did, but it's kind of misleading to the customer. I do believe Dave said he had some, they would certainly be worth a try. It would certainly solve any pass-through problem. !!! With just 70 grains one would have a .50-70 buffalo gun. !

 

[hawg]

Dang it Hawg...never thought you would even touch a sabot! Or even look at one. Shame-shame-shame! I break out in a rash just seeing one. Yes, I would not be surprised if a patched ball, all things considered, would ultimately give the best accuracy. Slugs can take some work, same with patched ball, and sometimes it seems all you can get is "hunting accuracy". I get "good hunting accuracy" with the Great Plains in my TC, and not so good with round ball. The box says: "1" groups at 100 yards", I'm not sure how they can make that claim. I don't doubt that they did, but it's kind of misleading to the customer. I do believe Dave said he had some, they would certainly be worth a try. It would certainly solve any pass-through problem. !!! With just 70 grains one would have a .50-70 buffalo gun. !

Well in my defense that was in 1980 and I was intellectually impaired. I didn't know half the stuff I've forgotten since then. They may get 1 inch groups with a custom barrel. I sincerely doubt they do it with a 1:48 twist. Yeah they probably will. I was surprised at the damage a .58 minie will do with just 65 grains of powder. I never got to shoot a deer with one. I tried a few times but never saw anything. If I had it would have probably took off half the deer. I don't see how civil war soldiers survived after being shot with one.

 

[woodnbow]

That would be true, I would guess that a round ball(s) would slow down at about the same rate regardless of size, the bigger ball would just have more inertia/momentum. Does seem like velocity would make a bigger difference in trajectory. ??

At any rate, that .600" ball of mine has sure passed through everything, and I think ya'll seen the pic where it sheared off the top of a steel fence post.

I've never shot big game with my Bess, just turkeys and grouse, but I bet that .690" ball really keeps on going. !!!!!

Regarding the velocity difference or lack… think of a vehicle. Not particularly aerodynamic, it might require 45 horsepower to travel at 50 mph. Up the speed by 25 percent and the additional horsepower required might be on the order of 50 percent. Air pressure increases that much as a function of velocity. Just spitballing here lost too many brain cells and too lazy to do the real work anymore but the concept is sound.

 

[hawg]

Regarding the velocity difference or lack… think of a vehicle. Not particularly aerodynamic, it might require 45 horsepower to travel at 50 mph. Up the speed by 25 percent and the additional horsepower required might be on the order of 50 percent. Air pressure increases that much as a function of velocity. Just spitballing here lost too many brain cells and too lazy to do the real work anymore but the concept is sound.

That's over my head.

 

[woodnbow]

That's over my head.

Probably mine too for evening after a snort or two of Bourbon. Same thing this morning before coffee. Sorry for the poor explanation… Basically ball sucks at maintaining velocity. The reasons it sucks at that are the same reasons that make it effective on the terminal ballistics side of the equation. (Maybe…)

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Well in my defense that was in 1980 and I was intellectually impaired. I didn't know half the stuff I've forgotten since then. They may get 1 inch groups with a custom barrel. I sincerely doubt they do it with a 1:48 twist. Yeah they probably will. I was surprised at the damage a .58 minie will do with just 65 grains of powder. I never got to shoot a deer with one. I tried a few times but never saw anything. If I had it would have probably took off half the deer. I don't see how civil war soldiers survived after being shot with one.

Big, slow moving bullets cut pretty clean holes in bone and flesh.

 

[woodnbow]

Big, slow moving bullets cut pretty clean holes in bone and flesh.

Some years ago cci came out with a .22 long rifle cartridge using a 40 grain flat pointed bullet. Called it the SGB, small game bullet. That bullet produces large wound channels in small game, much larger than any hollow point I’ve ever seen.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Some years ago cci came out with a .22 long rifle cartridge using a 40 grain flat pointed bullet. Called it the SGB, small game bullet. That bullet produces large wound channels in small game, much larger than any hollow point I’ve ever seen.

That would not surprise me, and why I prefer (insist!) on a RN for small game. Hollow points aren't bad if they don't open up. The Winchester 36 grain .22 H.P. comes out of my AirLite at 940fps, does not open up and kills grouse cleanly. Three dead grouse will testify to that! That Winchester load is the most accurate out of a big variety of .22's, in that pistol. I wanted to use CCI "Quiets", but chose accuracy over quiet. !!! However, from a little stubby barrel all the .22's sound about the same, or at least no BIG difference.

I don't think a round nose .58" would cause much damage on a deer. (other than killing it!)

 

[hawg]

Some years ago cci came out with a .22 long rifle cartridge using a 40 grain flat pointed bullet. Called it the SGB, small game bullet. That bullet produces large wound channels in small game, much larger than any hollow point I’ve ever seen.

Never used them but Stingers made a freakin mess.