357 load development and casual observations

AJC1 · Feb 16, 2022

Bearded Phil said:
Not really, haha. That's why I set it down and went back to using the 800X that I had/have. I still have most of 2 lbs of the Heavy Pistol and will probably return to it to see if I still have the same results now that I'm more versed in handloading. I don't think that I was doing anything wrong back then that would be corrected now but you never know.

Like you with 2400, though, my interested is tied up with IMR 4227 right now which I still have to get out and test. I had plans to go out last Sunday but my plans shifted and ended up not going out. (Short story: my brother had some passes to the WMPO and we went Saturday when I was going to do weekend chores so that shifted to Sunday. Saw live pro golf for the first time though and a hole-in-one at the 16th green, my brother was peeing and missed it, he was salty, haha. He's the one that actually likes golf.)

Side note: 800X was the only powder locally that I found data for with .357 when I started loading last year so I bought 2 lbs from my LGS. I still have 1-1/3 Lbs left. I found a decent load at 8.6gr with it, around 1488 FPS 158gr XTP but I'm torn between using up the rest or saving it. I know it won't last forever but with 800x being discontinued I figure maybe I can make a good trade with it to someone who REALLY wants some more or save it and it maybe it will become a collector piece some day.

Use it up and just buy a little extra 4227. I like both a lot and they both cross over well into lead in rifle. I havent seen 2400 in two years for sale.

GeoDudeFlorida · Feb 16, 2022

AJC1 said:
Use it up and just buy a little extra 4227. I like both a lot and they both cross over well into lead in rifle. I havent seen 2400 in two years for sale.

Next time I see it I'll shoot you a PM.

2400, No.9, 4100, and IMR 4227 are maybe the most interesting powders for .357Mag. IMR 4227 in particular. I don't think you can actually get enough IMR 4227 into a .357Mag case topped with a cast bullet to exceed SAAMI pressures. Maybe you can but, it would have to be a VERY compressed load. Downright crunchy.

I would include N340 but it's boringly stable in the mid-range like Unique, just maybe a little bit "cleaner." I don't load Blue Dot in .357Mag anymore. It's not polite.

Bearded Phil · Feb 16, 2022

ooph, that's rough. Keep an eye out and pounce when you get the chance!

I have most of 8lbs of 4227 at the moment. I've really been itching to try out the test ladders I loaded for .357 with it and see if I like what I see. If I do, next time I see another 8lber I'll snatch it up. Everyone seems to say that I will like it which has made me even more eager to get to the range.

AJC1 · Feb 16, 2022

GeoDudeFlorida said:
Next time I see it I'll shoot you a PM.

2400, No.9, 4100, and IMR 4227 are maybe the most interesting powders for .357Mag. IMR 4227 in particular. I don't think you can actually get enough IMR 4227 into a .357Mag case topped with a cast bullet to exceed SAAMI pressures. Maybe you can but, it would have to be a VERY compressed load. Downright crunchy.

I would include N340 but it's boringly stable in the mid-range like Unique, just maybe a little bit "cleaner." I don't load Blue Dot in .357Mag anymore. It's not polite.

Blue dot is one I really wanted to try. It seems the most efficient by the numbers. I'm to infer it gets cranky up top?

Seedy Character · Feb 16, 2022

Used a lot of Blue Dot on both .357 and magnum 12 ga.

It was dirty and left a lot of crud behind. Performed well, though.

GeoDudeFlorida · Feb 16, 2022

AJC1 said:
Blue dot is one I really wanted to try. It seems the most efficient by the numbers. I'm to infer it gets cranky up top?

More like it wallows in its own filth down low. Flaming Dirt is an apt description. But, yes, it does give good accuracy and even consistency even when loaded low. It just flames and spits and sputters and gets all rude in your barrel is all.

AJC1 · Feb 16, 2022

GeoDudeFlorida said:
More like it wallows in its own filth down low. Flaming Dirt is an apt description. But, yes, it does give good accuracy and even consistency even when loaded low. It just flames and spits and sputters and gets all rude in your barrel is all.

Great info thanks

GeoDudeFlorida · Feb 16, 2022

AJC1 said:
Great info thanks

Let us know when you start doing some serious work on .44Spl loads. Blue Dot at the very high end - almost compressed - with a 10-12BHN cast 200-210gr. LSWC is a gem of a load that will hunt, put pretty holes in targets and doesn't try to tear your arm off.

AJC1 · Feb 16, 2022

GeoDudeFlorida said:
Let us know when you start doing some serious work on .44Spl loads. Blue Dot at the very high end - almost compressed - with a 10-12BHN cast 200-210gr. LSWC is a gem of a load that will hunt, put pretty holes in targets and doesn't try to tear your arm off.

I go from 35 to 45 caliber with nothing in the middle. Based on being garbage at low pressure I guess it would not be great in 45c.

GeoDudeFlorida · Feb 16, 2022

AJC1 said:
I go from 35 to 45 caliber with nothing in the middle. Based on being garbage at low pressure I guess it would not be great in 45c.

Works well, especially in a carbine, but at low pressures in a revolver BD just doesn't burn as efficiently as it could. It's still plenty accurate, just not polite.

I use it with a 240gr. Sierra JHC in .45AR for a HD revolver load in ol' Big Ugly (S&W 1917). I figger if I don't hit them with the bullet, I'll set them on fire with the Blue Dot.

Or at least blind and deafen them for a full minute. :neener:

Like this here...

I don't see why it wouldn't work in a .45Colt but there are better powders, IMO.

Seedy Character · Feb 16, 2022

It works in .45C, but black powder is cleaner

AJC1 · Feb 16, 2022

Seedy Character said:
It works in .45C, but black powder is cleaner

That's not exactly a compliment.

.45Coltguy · Feb 17, 2022

AJC1, if you ever find/buy some 2400, try it with those 180's. 11.3-11.5 is outstanding in my Henry with 20" barrel.
Universal is aother very good powder with cast/coated 158 rnfp. Been enjoying these posts.

AJC1 · Feb 17, 2022

.45Coltguy said:
AJC1, if you ever find/buy some 2400, try it with those 180's. 11.3-11.5 is outstanding in my Henry with 20" barrel.
Universal is aother very good powder with cast/coated 158 rnfp. Been enjoying these posts.

I have some and love it. 8.9 grains with that 180 in a 38 case.is great so far. I had some tumblers with that 180 in the marlin microgrove today but zero issues with the same load in the colt pistol. The tumbler was 7.2 grains of true blue in a 357 case.

DMW1116 · Feb 17, 2022

Ok this (meaning me) is getting out of hand. My quest for faster 357 loads and slower 30-30 loads keeps leading me to the same powders. I don’t have any but I’m searching for IMR 4227 and 110 grain jacketed 357 bullets. Anyone tried that combo? I see a Hodgden gives velocity well over 1700 fps from a 10” test barrel.

Bearded Phil · Feb 18, 2022

DMW1116 said:
Ok this (meaning me) is getting out of hand. My quest for faster 357 loads and slower 30-30 loads keeps leading me to the same powders. I don’t have any but I’m searching for IMR 4227 and 110 grain jacketed 357 bullets. Anyone tried that combo? I see a Hodgden gives velocity well over 1700 fps from a 10” test barrel.

Haven't tried that combo but if you're looking for 4227 Midway still has 1lbers.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2185278142?pid=278142

GeoDudeFlorida · Feb 18, 2022

DMW1116 said:
Ok this (meaning me) is getting out of hand. My quest for faster 357 loads and slower 30-30 loads keeps leading me to the same powders. I don’t have any but I’m searching for IMR 4227 and 110 grain jacketed 357 bullets. Anyone tried that combo? I see a Hodgden gives velocity well over 1700 fps from a 10” test barrel.

No but I have a 10” Contender barrel in .357Mag, 110gr GDHP, IMR 4227 and a chronograph. I can give it a whirl and let you know.

AJC1 · Feb 18, 2022

DMW1116 said:
Ok this (meaning me) is getting out of hand. My quest for faster 357 loads and slower 30-30 loads keeps leading me to the same powders. I don’t have any but I’m searching for IMR 4227 and 110 grain jacketed 357 bullets. Anyone tried that combo? I see a Hodgden gives velocity well over 1700 fps from a 10” test barrel.

That load seems like a formula for top strap cutting. If your not shooting a revolver disregard.
I'm curious if your percentage of burn will increase speed. 4227 so far in my nonscientific shooting burns better with heavy bullets. In a contender it sounds exactly like a 300bo load that some guys hunt with.

BRatigan · Feb 18, 2022

Just to add more data. I am using 13.1 grains of Heavy Pistol under a Speer 158 grain jacketed hollow point. 7 shots out of ten in an inch size hole at 50 yards. There were three flyers all close to that group. Hey I'm using irons and have bad eyes. Thats with my M73 in 357 Magnum and the load is the max load off the bottle. About 1773 fps out of that 24 inch barrel.

AJC1 · Feb 18, 2022

BRatigan said:
Just to add more data. I am using 13.1 grains of Heavy Pistol under a Speer 158 grain jacketed hollow point. 7 shots out of ten in an inch size hole at 50 yards. There were three flyers all close to that group. Hey I'm using irons and have bad eyes. Thats with my M73 in 357 Magnum and the load is the max load off the bottle. About 1773 fps out of that 24 inch barrel.View attachment 1060513

If your shooting those no rest, I'd be happy to use that load for steel siholloette.

BRatigan · Feb 18, 2022

AJC1 said:
If your shooting those no rest, I'd be happy to use that load for steel siholloette.

Sadly, it's from the rest. My next expenditure is for Skinner peeps to see if I can eliminate the third item to line up. I failed to mention this distance was 50 yrds.

GeoDudeFlorida · Feb 18, 2022

BRatigan said:
Sadly, it's from the rest. My next expenditure is for Skinner peeps to see if I can eliminate the third item to line up. I failed to mention this distance was 50 yrds.

Sounds like me: I can see the target, front sight and rear sight - but not all at the same time. I have to pick a pair of glasses that let's me choose two...

Bearded Phil · Feb 18, 2022

BRatigan said:
Just to add more data. I am using 13.1 grains of Heavy Pistol under a Speer 158 grain jacketed hollow point. View attachment 1060513

Any signs of over-pressure with the 13.1gr charge?

2ndtimer · Feb 18, 2022

DMW1116 said:
Ok this (meaning me) is getting out of hand. My quest for faster 357 loads and slower 30-30 loads keeps leading me to the same powders. I don’t have any but I’m searching for IMR 4227 and 110 grain jacketed 357 bullets. Anyone tried that combo? I see a Hodgden gives velocity well over 1700 fps from a 10” test barrel.

Full disclosure, I have never tried IMR-4227, but everything I have read and heard over the past 40+ years is that max performance in the .357 Magnum is W-296/H-110 and more recently from personal experience Alliant Power Pro 300-MP. Again, no personal experience with barrels longer than 10”, so maybe IMR-4227 might be magic in a .357 Magnum rifle or carbine. And while 110 gr bullets may leave the muzzle at high velocity, they slow down almost as fast. Plus, the lighter the bullet and the more powder you put behind it, the harder it is on a revolver barrel and top strap. I have a bunch of potent 125 gr JHP handloads from years ago when I was younger (and dumber). I shoot them only occasionally, and at varmints (hopefully just the 4 legged kind). I won’t be buying any more, as I have gone to 140 gr and 158 gr weights in jacketed bullets exclusively. More accurate, takes less powder and easier on the gun. But, I am curious, so let us know how it works if you want to give flyweight bullets and IMR-4227 a go. I am guessing you won’t find your pot of gold under that particular rainbow.

DMW1116 · Feb 18, 2022

With things being how they are I’m mainly just looking for options. It is interesting the same powders work for my downloaded 30-30 and heavy 357 loads. IMR 4227 is available and would probably work fine with the heavier bullets too. I haven’t seen 110 gr XTPs in a long while so it’s likely a dead end.

357 load development and casual observations

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