What We Have Been Needing

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kleanbore

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
17,482
"I carry wherever it is legal. I am trained and competent in gun handling. I know enough about the laws in my jurisdiction to avoid willfully threatening or using deadly force unlawfully."

Great! But that's not all I need, by a long shot.

When I head out on an errand, I am not going to a defensive training class, and I am not expecting to draw my firearm. My attention will be focussed on other things. A threat may materialize, but I will surely not expect it. It will not be instantly recognizable by its target frame and the berm behind it. I will not have been prepared for the situation by a class instructor. And if I fail to recognize it timely and react instantly and appropriately, nothing else will matter.

I've been thinking about this for a long time, and today I learned of a training class that address just those issues. I have watched the trailer, and I have ordered the material.

It is what I have been waiting for.

https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/class/dynamic-threat-assessment-situational-awareness/
 
Do you remember the old Pink Panther movies?

Inspector Cleseau would have Cato randomly attack him. That's how you learn situational awareness.


Kleanbore said:
When I head out on an errand, I am not going to a defensive training class, and I am not expecting to draw my firearm. My attention will be focussed on other things. A threat may materialize, but I will surely not expect it.
Click to expand...

If you're not expecting a threat every time you walk out your door you haven't been paying attention to the news for the last year or so.

I'm not trying to say this to sound like a badass because I'm not but I live in the town that I used to work in.

Right after I retired there was two or three weeks where every single night there was a news report of a shooting or a robbery or a body found or a fight or a fire caused by a "homeless warming fire" and every single one of them was a place where I had a security check and about half of them occurred in the time frame that I would have been there.

There are very few places in my town that I can go where I don't have some kind of war story.

It does a pretty good job of keeping me on my toes
 
Last edited:
Night Rider said:
If you're not expecting a threat every time you walk out your door you haven't been paying attention to the news for the last year or so.
Click to expand...
Always "expecting a threat" would be a very irrational reaction to news reports about violent crime. It would be extremely unrealistic, an entirely unacceptable mindset, and a useless strategy for self preservation.
 
It’s very difficult (and tiring) to live your life in the “yellow zone”. It’s much easier when there are obvious dangers (sketchy neighborhood, etc.) but infinitely harder when you’re in relatively safe environments. That doesn’t mean, however, that a thug won’t try something at your local Lowe’s - a place you’ve been to hundreds of times.

I try to stay vigilant, but I know I let my guard down. Sometimes I’ll be shaken awake by realizing that there’s someone in my “safe zone” that I didn’t see coming, or a car behind me that I never saw approaching. Those instances help me to refocus, but ultimately it’s just too hard (at least for me) to always be as vigilant as I should.

That said, I’m probably better off than 90% of people who just wander through life, oblivious to what’s around them. If I’m going to be a target, I hope I’m not an easy one!!
 
Kleanbore said:
Always "expecting a threat" would be a very irrational reaction to news reports about violent crime. It would be extremely unrealistic, an entirely unacceptable mindset, and a useless strategy for self preservation.
Click to expand...

Let me say this a different way.

I used to work on a city site that bordered the Field Training Area of an Army Post. Range Row was about a mile from my office.

One night I walked out of the office and someone over on range row opened up with an M2 Browning.

I didn't stop and consider implications. I didn't do a threat assessment. I hit the dirt. I took cover behind a car and then realized what was happening.

I wasn't in any "heightened sense of alert". I never considered that any one would ever shoot at me with a machine gun again that would have been an irrational fear. But the conditioned response was still in there.

Kleanbore said:
Always "expecting a threat" would be a very irrational reaction to news reports about violent crime.
Click to expand...

You might be right but always expecting a threat because your job has conditioned you to always expect a threat wouldn't be.

I said it in my first post but I drive around this town with my wife and almost everywhere we go is someplace where I got in a fight with some tweaker or at least it's in the area.

So, unlike you, When I head out on an errand, even if I am not going to a defensive training class, and I very aware that I may very well have to draw my firearm.

My life experience has taught me that there are no safe neighborhoods and there really aren't any safe places.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that my life experiences have framed my worldview and I don't think this class would be of any value to me because I've already learned it just living my life
 
Last edited:
Night Rider said:
So, unlike you, When I head out on an errand, even if I am not going to a defensive training class, and I very aware that I may very well have to draw my firearm.
Click to expand...
That is not unlike me. what I said was, I am not expecting to draw. The class is about how to recognize when the need might occur.

Strutting around believing that one is in "Condition Yellow" does not facilitate that at all.

Night Rider said:
My life experience has taught me that there are no safe neighborhoods and there really aren't any safe places.
Click to expand...
Yep.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that my life experiences have framed my worldview and I don't think this class would be of any value to me because I've already learned it just living my life
Click to expand...
The value of the class class is not about a "world view", and I cannot see how anyone could assess its value without looking into it.

The only real prerequisite is an ability to think.
 
Please report back on the class.

My take away from my experience.
-Troubled people are generally obvious. You already know what they look like, and how they move.

-The less obvious come from concealment. A tree line next to a gas station. Behind the gas station. Inside a minivan. Any dark spots. These are extremely important to make a mental note of. That way you unconsciously are ready for movement from there, or to check each every once in a while.

-Your adversary can't/won't know how to use light. Only the lack thereof. If the setting sun is at your back, you have an advantage. Nobody has ever approached me from my blind spot in the sun. In multiple ghettos, in multiple hurricanes. Not even once.

-If your intuition is pinging. Don't ignore it. Even if it seems morally wrong.
 
Last edited:
No one can live in condition yellow 24/7. Condition yellow is what a solder outside the wire lives in. Situational awareness is that gray area (for lack of a better term) between condition white and yellow. You subconsciously note the things around and people around you and you raise your threatcon to yellow or higher if you see a threat indicator. You can learn to do this. It just takes time and practice. Police officers learn it. An officer can't interact with the public constantly in condition yellow. The public wouldn't accept that. I can go out, enjoy myself and still be situationally aware and not expect to have to draw my weapon. I don't go into condition yellow where I expect to have to draw until I perceive a possible threat. I've had a few people tell me I have "cop eyes". But they were very perceptive and paying a lot of attention to me.

I don't know how you would teach someone to reach that level of awareness. The best I can say is that it just comes with experience. I think the civilian tactical community pays too much attention to catch phrases like; "be nice to everyone you meet but have a plan to kill them". It's all about being aware of what's normal in the places you normally frequent. If you think about it you know what is normal in most restaurants, convenience stores and other places you frequent things that are out of the ordinary will jump out at you. Most of the time they will be nothing, but they will be worthy of paying a bit more attention and maybe going from gray to yellow and in most cases you will go right back to gray. If you expect to have to draw every time you leave the house you are going to end up with PTSD.

This is all about being observant and learning to "read the room". Practice it and it will become something you do subconsciously.
 
Work nights anywhere alone, in Memphis Tennessee. If you survive, you'll be better at it. Whatever ''condition yellow'' means, you'll have it mastered.

And your ''awareness'' should be stealthy. Head on a swivel is a nice way to become a mark.

I did my (bad neighborhood) storm time in New Orleans, Dothan, Miami, and West Palm beach, etc. Miami was the worst, because it looked the nicest and safest. Give or take Katrina.
 
Night Rider said:
Please define "condition yellow'
Click to expand...

There have been many interpretations of Cooper's color codes and they have been taught to the tactical community in many different ways. An internet search will bring up all of these variations.

I've found this explanation the most relevant to me. Your mileage may vary..................................................

https://www.breachbangclear.com/cooper-color-code/

Here is the Colonel himself explaining it:

 
Jeff White said:
No one can live in condition yellow 24/7. Condition yellow is what a solder outside the wire lives in. Situational awareness is that gray area (for lack of a better term) between condition white and yellow.
Click to expand...

I think you have a different understanding of Cooper's Color Code" than I do.

I was taught that Yellow is simply a general acknowledgment that the world is not a benign place and I might have to defend myself today. I can and do live my life like that.

Orange is when a specific situation that causes you to consider that you may have to defend yourself against that specific person today.

Red is a situation in which there's a very specific threat. and you're making shoot/don't shoot decisions "If that tweaker's hand comes out of his pocket with a weapon in it I'm going to shoot.

Black is what happens when the tweaker's hand comes out of his pocket with a gun in it
 
Night Rider said:
I think you have a different understanding of Cooper's Color Code" than I do.

I was taught that Yellow is simply a general acknowledgment that the world is not a benign place and I might have to defend myself today. I can and do live my life like that.

Orange is when a specific situation that causes you to consider that you may have to defend yourself against that specific person today.

Red is a situation in which there's a very specific threat. and you're making shoot/don't shoot decisions "If that tweaker's hand comes out of his pocket with a weapon in it I'm going to shoot.

Black is what happens when the tweaker's hand comes out of his pocket with a gun in it
Click to expand...


See this post:


https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/what-we-have-been-needing.904528/#post-12271556
 
Jeff White said:
No one can live in condition yellow 24/7. Condition yellow is what a solder outside the wire lives in.
Click to expand...

Mr. Cooper's definition of yellow is much closer to mine than yours. He even explicitly states you can live in condition yellow for the rest of your life.

Given I'm closer to what I'm listening to Mr. Cooper say than you are I'm going to continue on with my assessment
 
Night Rider said:
Mr. Cooper's definition of yellow is much closer to mine than yours. He even explicitly states you can live in condition yellow for the rest of your life.

Given I'm closer to what I'm listening to Mr. Cooper say than you are I'm going to continue on with my assessment
Click to expand...
You're free to do what you want. There is no right and wrong way. What works for me and kept me alive may not work for anyone else. All of our minds work somewhat differently. The color codes are simply a way of explaining a concept. It's not mathematics.
 
Night Rider said:
Perhaps you should have watched the video before trying to use it as a proof text.
Click to expand...

The video was to prove how many different interpretations of the color code are out there. I could literally fill a page with links of different ways it's been taught. There is nothing to argue about here. If it works for you, it works....that's what is important. I don't think it's smart to walk around expecting a gunfight every time you leave the house. You'll burn out at that level of readiness.
 
Zerodefect said:
Please report back on the class.
Click to expand...
It is about how the mind works.

Zerodefect said:
My take away from my experience....The less obvious come from concealment. A tree line next to a gas station. Behind the gas station. Inside a minivan. Any dark spots. These are extremely important to make a mental note of. That way you unconsciously are ready for movement from there, or to check each every once in a while....Your adversary can't/won't know how to use light. Only the lack thereof. If the setting sun is at your back, you have an advantage.
Click to expand...
Good stuff, but that's all about tactics. The class is about other things
 
Jeff White said:
The video was to prove how many different interpretations of the color code are out there. I could literally fill a page with links of different ways it's been taught. There is nothing to argue about here. If it works for you, it works....that's what is important. I don't think it's smart to walk around expecting a gunfight every time you leave the house. You'll burn out at that level of readiness.
Click to expand...

But Cooper is The Author. His interpretation is the definitive one.

I don't walk around expecting a gun fight every time I walk out my door I said "if you don't expect a threat every time you walk out the door you haven't been paying attention to the news."

Now that may be a little hyperbolic but you should never walk out your door unprepared for trouble. The World isn't a safe place anymore and it's becoming less safe every day. I don't need a class to teach me that.

That's what I was trying to say
 
I don't expect an attack as I go about my day, not at all. I and I stay aw
Jeff White said:
No one can live in condition yellow 24/7. Condition yellow is what a solder outside the wire lives in. Situational awareness is that gray area (for lack of a better term) between condition white and yellow. You subconsciously note the things around and people around you and you raise your threatcon to yellow or higher if you see a threat indicator. You can learn to do this. It just takes time and practice. Police officers learn it. An officer can't interact with the public constantly in condition yellow. The public wouldn't accept that. I can go out, enjoy myself and still be situationally aware and not expect to have to draw my weapon. I don't go into condition yellow where I expect to have to draw until I perceive a possible threat. I've had a few people tell me I have "cop eyes". But they were very perceptive and paying a lot of attention to me.

I don't know how you would teach someone to reach that level of awareness. The best I can say is that it just comes with experience. I think the civilian tactical community pays too much attention to catch phrases like; "be nice to everyone you meet but have a plan to kill them". It's all about being aware of what's normal in the places you normally frequent. If you think about it you know what is normal in most restaurants, convenience stores and other places you frequent things that are out of the ordinary will jump out at you. Most of the time they will be nothing, but they will be worthy of paying a bit more attention and maybe going from gray to yellow and in most cases you will go right back to gray. If you expect to have to draw every time you leave the house you are going to end up with PTSD.

This is all about being observant and learning to "read the room". Practice it and it will become something you do subconsciously.
Click to expand...

These thoughts are 100% on the money. People need to chill. One thing I've noticed is that people who have lived with trouble as part of their occupation are way more chill as they go about their lives than people who aren't. There really isn't any good way to learn how to read the envirornment other than experience.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
How Do You Decide What to Train For?
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
3K
John Joseph
John Joseph
M
  • Locked
Best training you have attended???
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
Legionnaire
Legionnaire
L
  • Locked
What would like to have in a defensive shooting class?
Replies
9
Views
248
smince
S
K
  • Locked
Rank Training Classes & What Worked
Replies
4
Views
348
possum
P
F
  • Locked
My thoughts on current combative firearms training - Dave Spaulding
2
Replies
34
Views
1K
AStone
A
Back
Top