Permit less carry

lovehappiness22 said:

"Secondly, if you want to travel to another state, even if they have permitless concealed carry there, it may only be for residents of that state. Which you would not be."

Do you want permitless carry to be for everyone and not just for residents of a state?

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This is a fair question. And you're basing it on the assumption that I want permitless carry in the first place.

Honestly, I'd prefer permitted concealed carry. But I would want it to be a "shall issue" permit for all 50 states, legal and recognized in all 50 states, with minimum financial cost and testing. Basically, a driver's license for concealed carry.

"Do you know the basic laws and fundamental rules of driving/firearms handling? Take this simple written test to prove it."

"Can you show me that you can operate a vehicle/firearm in a safe manner by way of a basic practical test?"

"Looks like you have the basics down just fine. Here's your temporary permit. Your real one will be mailed to you within 2 to 4 weeks. Congratulations."

Not much different than a hunter's ed course really.

WrongHanded said:

Not much different than a hunter's ed course really.

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No difference at all IF you overlook the fact that neither hunting nor driving are Constitutionally protected civil liberties

Sounds to me like the OP is asking his question with an agenda.

Here in Virginia, we have permitless open carry. Concealed carry is with a permit, but the permit is relatively easy to obtain. Well and good.

The problem with the permit is that it's on the police online database, and it's tied to your car license tag number. That means that if you're pulled over for any reason, the police know, or think they know, that you might be carrying. This suspicion attaches not only to you (the permit holder) but also to anyone, such as your spouse, who might be driving your car. (Ironically, the state machine gun registry is not on the police online database.)

I'm sure 99% of cops are decent about this, but rogue cops are not unknown. This is a concern especially for ethnic minorities. We've all read the news articles.

These sorts of problems are good reasons for a state to go to permitless concealed carry. It removes the stigma.

Night Rider said:

No difference at all IF you overlook the fact that neither hunting nor driving are Constitutionally protected civil liberties

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I'm not suggesting a permit to keep arms. Nor to bear them. Only to bear them concealed.

Though I'm fairly confident that the right to travel is well established. So we'd only be arguing about the method, not the principle.

WrongHanded said:

I'm not suggesting a permit to keep arms. Nor to bear them. Only to bear them concealed.

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Show me that stipulation in the constitution.

WrongHanded said:

Though I'm fairly confident that the right to travel is well established. So we'd only be arguing about the method, not the principle.

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The right to travel DOESN'T include the right to tresspass on another person's (or personage) property The roads are OWNED by the government and they have every right to stipulate conditions for using their roads.

Just as I can Forbid you from carrying a weapon in my privately owned business

Night Rider said:

Show me that stipulation in the constitution

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So true. You will not find it. And checking the net, only 1 state of the 25 permit less requires you to be a Resident of that State

And only for CC. Open is obliged. .

Night Rider said:

Show me that stipulation in the constitution.



The right to travel DOESN'T include the right to tresspass on another person's (or personage) property The roads are OWNED by the government and they have every right to stipulate conditions for using their roads.

Just as I can Forbid you from carrying a weapon in my privately owned business

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Ah, I'm not going to follow you off into the weeds on this one. The OP made a presumption about my beliefs, I corrected it. You'll have to argue your case with someone else I'm afraid.

Permit less carry is fine but I would rather have the option of obtaining a permit. It could save you some time if stopped by the authorities. Rather than waiting to run your name through the database to see if you are a prohibited person, show your permit and go on your way.

Zygodactyl said:

Permit less carry is fine but I would rather have the option of obtaining a permit. It could save you some time if stopped by the authorities. Rather than waiting to run your name through the database to see if you are a prohibited person, show your permit and go on your way.

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They run your name every time they pull you over anyway

lovehappiness22 said:

A person needs to under go a background check when purchasing a firearm at a gun show or a gun shop. Does it mean I can strap on a gun without undergoing any other process? What it's mean if permitless carry was passed in my state and I carry? Does it mean I can burn my permit and go outside and still carry?

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Yes, but having a license means you can travel to other states that have reciprocity and some states don't require an NICS background check when purchasing firearms. There will be 25 states that have permitless carry. In 24 of them they permit non residents to carry permitless.

lovehappiness22 said:

A person needs to under go a background check when purchasing a firearm at a gun show or a gun shop. Does it mean I can strap on a gun without undergoing any other process? What it's mean if permitless carry was passed in my state and I carry? Does it mean I can burn my permit and go outside and still carry?

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Varies depending upon the State.
Some States require Open Carry to be in a holster. Some don't. Some States are POC, or have Waiting Periods, so, no, you can't just go tuck the gun in your belt and saunter off. (You are going to find scant few LGS that are going to let you load up your new possession right there in the shop, in the first place--and like to less-than zero big box stores.)
Ditching your permit is a personal decision if your State goes to Permitless.
In some non-POC States the Issued Permit can let you skip the NICS call-in process. In some States people with Permit have additional "privileges" that the non-permitted do not. Sometimes. The Permit is very useful in Permit-required States if they have reciprocity.

lovehappiness22 said:

Wronghanded,

You wrote "Honestly, I'd prefer permitted concealed carry. But I would want it to be a "shall issue" permit for all 50 states, legal and recognized in all 50 states, with minimum financial cost and testing. Basically, a driver's license for concealed carry."

I agree with you regarding shall issue permits for all 50 states and absolutely scrap permitless carrying.

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It needs to be attainable for the average person though. Jumping through a few hoops is fine (we do it all the time), but they can't be made into significant barriers. Education, competence, and a clean history of lawful living is all that should be needed.

Well then you don't really support the 2nd Amendment. Permitless carry works just fine in the states that have it.

I don't know how it works I guess I'll find out when ours takes effect in about a month.

No you actually don't. None of what you support has anything to do with the 2nd Amendment. Universal background checks would require a national registry and we already know we can't trust this most important right with the government.

Mandatory mental health checks twice yearly…nothing could go wrong there right? Same thing with red flag laws where you’ve put yourself at risk by speaking with or coming in contact with someone who has an agenda. The ability to abuse is upheld by the law itself.

Just wow, glad you're not in charge.

lovehappiness22 said:

I support the second amendment and a national gun registry

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Google 'non-sequitur'

And 'mandatory', while you're at it.

Larry

lovehappiness22 said:

Wronghanded,

I believe universal Background checks. Mental health check when you buy a firearm including a mental health check up two more times in a year. I believe a written test should be manitory to use a firearm including firearms training.

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Ah, well we disagree with a whole lot then. We probably also disagree on how to deal with repeat offenders and violent criminals.