a good argument against raising the age for gun ownership to 21

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Purchase age versus possession age?
Can a parent or other family member gift a long gun to a young adult?
Under 21 but over 18.
 
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As the 1950s "Seduction of the Innocents" House Hearings painted all teenagers who read comic books as crime prone delinquents and a menace and scourge to the nation, the anti-gun crusaders warn that brains are not fully formed until 25 years of age and no one under the age of 21 should be allowed have a gun lest they turn into school shooters. It's Science and Politics!

My Dad first took me to shoot cans at the old home place on the mountain when I was 6, using the .22 rifle he grew up with. I was caught up that time in the Walt Dusny Davy Crockett fad. I also target practiced with my uncles over the years. I was gifted a .22 rifle for Xmas when I was 15. On visits to the mountain I hunted squirrel with my uncle, and back home Dad and I skinned and gutted the squirrels and he made squirrel dumplings. In the public library I studied astronomy, microscopy, and military history in particular guerilla warfare. I also looked up Firearms Legislation in the Readers Guide to Periodical Literature and read every available article in the extensive shelves of periodicals and took notes. When I turned 18 (1966), graduated HS, had my first job, I bought my first rifle on my own at Sears.

The Clinton administration National Survey on Private Ownership and use of Firearms NSPOF (sample: uninstitutionalized adults in homes with phones) found that the majority of adult firearms owners had been introduced to firearmsas children by adult relatives . Breaking that link is the key to gun control, at least among the law abiding population, by setting minimum ages, raising them, and making violations federal firearms felonies.
 
As the 1950s "Seduction of the Innocents" House Hearings painted all teenagers who read comic books as crime prone delinquents and a menace and scourge to the nation, the anti-gun crusaders warn that brains are not fully formed until 25 years of age and no one under the age of 21 should be allowed have a gun lest they turn into school shooters. It's Science and Politics!

My Dad first took me to shoot cans at the old home place on the mountain when I was 6, using the .22 rifle he grew up with. I was caught up that time in the Walt Dusny Davy Crockett fad. I also target practiced with my uncles over the years. I was gifted a .22 rifle for Xmas when I was 15. On visits to the mountain I hunted squirrel with my uncle, and back home Dad and I skinned and gutted the squirrels and he made squirrel dumplings. In the public library I studied astronomy, microscopy, and military history in particular guerilla warfare. I also looked up Firearms Legislation in the Readers Guide to Periodical Literature and read every available article in the extensive shelves of periodicals and took notes. When I turned 18 (1966), graduated HS, had my first job, I bought my first rifle on my own at Sears.

The Clinton administration National Survey on Private Ownership and use of Firearms NSPOF (sample: uninstitutionalized adults in homes with phones) found that the majority of adult firearms owners had been introduced to firearmsas children by adult relatives . Breaking that link is the key to gun control, at least among the law abiding population, by setting minimum ages, raising them, and making violations federal firearms felonies.
If they are also proposing preventing parents from taking their kids shooting, I haven't seen it.
 
the anti-gun crusaders warn that brains are not fully formed until 25 years of age...

And anyone who has worked with adolescents and/or studied adolescent psychology knows that this is pretty much true.


...the majority of adult firearms owners had been introduced to firearms as children by adult relatives . Breaking that link is the key to gun control,

While I've yet to see a proposed bill that would prohibit parents from taking their kids to a gun range, getting young people to support gun control and dislike firearms is a significant step toward future gun control. And it's working. When this current generation of teens finally begins to vote-probably within the next 8-10 years, you guys are going to be in for a serious upset. We need some sort of water-tight Supreme Court precedence soon to protect the 2nd Amendment for the long term.
 
Purchase age versus possession age?
Can a parent or other family member gift a long gun a young adult?
Under 21 but over 18.

Under current laws yes they can. Also under current law, a person between the ages of 18 and 20 can legally posses a handgun, they just can't buy from a FFL until they are 21 per federal law. As always check your state laws too.
 
I got my first 357 at 13.

That said, that was a choice made ultimately by my parents, not me.

We just have to remember to use the logic both ways. If 18 is old enough to possess a rifle to defend your Country or die doing so, kind of locks in the logic for me.

As far as I am concerned they could raise the age to 50 and it wouldn’t have any effect on me. However, if we are changing laws to accommodate the few, I would prefer them to raise the driving age. 40k+ are killed by automobiles every year.

If we are doing it “for the children” that’s a better place to start, as it kills more of them annually.
 
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Any number of <21 stalking & DV victims, and housebreak survivors, too. Rather a significant number will be female or a minority, or both. Such things are "against narrative" and will not be publicized.

What is out of the public mind will be far out of the political mind.

A far better "talking point" for the firearms community, to my mind, is just what is the difference between an 18 y/o military or police recruit, and any other 18 y/o? A few hours of being shouted at by Sergeants? Dressing alike? A rose is a Rose . . . pricked by a thorn, will they not bleed the same blood as I?
 
So the "bipartisan" (10 R's and 10 D's) gun bill that now passed the Senate thankfully does not include an "assault weapons" ban or raising the age of gun ownership to 21. It does have a provision whereby the juvenile records of prospective gun buyers under 21 will be opened for the background check. I personally was thinking about this issue when it was reported that the reason the Uvalde shooter was able to pass his background check is that he had just turned 18 and whatever he did prior to that was a closed book. So far I heard two comments about this, Dan Crenshaw said he thought it makes sense, Guns & Gadgets guy said it creates two classes of people. I don't think I agree with G&G guy, the law already creates two classes of people by sealing the records of criminal acts committed prior to the 18th birthday. What do you guys think?
 
Any number of <21 stalking & DV victims, and housebreak survivors, too. Rather a significant number will be female or a minority, or both. Such things are "against narrative" and will not be publicized.

What is out of the public mind will be far out of the political mind.

A far better "talking point" for the firearms community, to my mind, is just what is the difference between an 18 y/o military or police recruit, and any other 18 y/o? A few hours of being shouted at by Sergeants? Dressing alike? A rose is a Rose . . . pricked by a thorn, will they not bleed the same blood as I?
Yep, really sticks in my craw that an 18-year old who joins the military not only is trusted with weapons but is putting his life on the line for the rest of us, dreadful to forbid him to own a gun to defend his life.
 
How many of you have heard the expression "emancipated minor"? It is a situation where a person not yet legally an "adult" gets "divorced" from their parents for various reasons. Are these "laws" going to deny such a person the right to defend themselves in their own home because they are under 21?
What about those people who get married shortly after getting out of high school? Will they be told they can't defend their young families because they are under 21?
That is why these "laws" are as pleasant as that pile of fresh bovine excrement. :barf:
 
Hello, RAISING THE AGE FOR GUN OWNERSHIP TO 21 DID NOT MAKE IT INTO THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION.

Please see post #11 for what did make it in in connection with people under 21.
 
How many of you have heard the expression "emancipated minor"? It is a situation where a person not yet legally an "adult" gets "divorced" from their parents for various reasons. Are these "laws" going to deny such a person the right to defend themselves in their own home because they are under 21?
What about those people who get married shortly after getting out of high school? Will they be told they can't defend their young families because they are under 21?
That is why these "laws" are as pleasant as that pile of fresh bovine excrement. :barf:
An "emancipated minor" hasn't been able to legally buy a gun from a dealer since 1968.
 
I'm curious what age everyone thinks should be the minimum age to purchase a firearm? Or if there should be a minimum age?
 
I got my first 357 at 13.

That said, that was a choice made ultimately by my parents, not me.

We just have to remember to use the logic both ways. If 18 is old enough to possess a rifle to defend your Country or die doing so, kind of locks in the logic for me.

As far as I am concerned they could raise the age to 50 and it wouldn’t have any effect on me. However, if we are changing laws

If we are doing it “for the children” that’s a better place to start, as it kills more of them annually.
I got my first 357 at 13.

That said, that was a choice made ultimately by my parents, not me.

We just have to remember to use the logic both ways. If 18 is old enough to possess a rifle to defend your Country or die doing so, kind of locks in the logic for me.

As far as I am concerned they could raise the age to 50 and it wouldn’t have any effect on me. However, if we are changing laws to accommodate the few, I would prefer them to raise the driving age. 40k+ are killed by automobiles every year.

If we are doing it “for the children” that’s a better place to start, as it kills more of them annually.


"For the children"
24k children drown every year. Ban home swimming pools.
 
"For the children"
24k children drown every year. Ban home swimming pools.
We could have mandatory swimming lessons as well as mandatory pool safety training instead of banning all home swimming pools. Of course, home diving boards should be banned anyway - if children, or for that matter, anyone wants to dive, they should have to go to the YMCA, or a gym, or some other place where there's a pool and a certified diving instructor, as well as a lifeguard on duty. ;)
 
We just have to remember to use the logic both ways. If 18 is old enough to possess a rifle to defend your Country or die doing so, kind of locks in the logic for me.

I mean no offense, but I really hate that logic.

We do not simply take 18 year olds give them weapons and send them off to defend their country.
We take some (not just any) 18 year olds, send them to boot camp for weeks where they are required to meet certain standards. They are trained to be disciplined, work together for common goals. They are also heavily monitored by other trained and experienced men, under real threat of punishment for bad behavior. Then they may be sent off to defend the country.

Very few people would say those people don’t have the right to carry a weapon… the debate is about the other 98% of 18-21 year olds.

Those military 18-21 year old are (on average) much better citizens and more responsible than that other 98%. Any logic that lumps them all together is faulty, imo.
 
Is a 21 year old idiot any better than an 18 year old one or a 65 year old one for that matter?
Well no, but their is no mark on people to identify idiots, their is no idiot filter. Also statically the older a person is the less likely to be an idiot they are, and the more likely they’ll be to have a record to identify them as such if they are one.

That’s the problem with restrictions in general though.
Agreed!


You want the line, now where to put it…
Never said I want a line. I want a decent argument that will hold up under scrutiny.
 
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