Taking a prohibited person shooting. Is it okay?

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Gun4Fun90

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
334
So I have an acquittance that is still in his early 20's and seems interested in firearm's and I thought it would be nice to invite him out to the range.

However when he was younger he did something stupid and has a felony on his record that prohibits him from owning firearms. He did not serve any jail time just probation but it will still be a number of years before he can apply to have his record expunged.

He is a nice hardworking young man and I am not worried about him doing anything unsafe or shady and I do trust him, but I am not sure if it is legal to bring a prohibited person shooting or allow him to handle my guns.

I am not talking about loaning him guns I would not do that, I am talking about bringing him with me to go shooting and letting try it out, the guns would be under my supervision and not be left with him alone.

Is this legal? Are there any specific law or rules I should be aware of if I do take him? This is unknow territory for me, I tend not to know many prohibited people thus I have never had to deal with something like this before.
 
Gun4Fun90 said:
I am not talking about loaning him guns I would not do that, I am talking about bringing him with me to go shooting and letting try it out, the guns would be under my supervision and not be left with him alone.

Is this legal? Are there any specific law or rules I should be aware of if I do take him? This is unknow territory for me, I tend not to know many prohibited people thus I have never had to deal with something like this before.
Click to expand...

@Frank Ettin or @Spats McGee can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the whole point of being "prohibited." It's illegal FEDERALLY.
 
Do felons lose other constitutional rights? Freedom of speech? If you are a woman felon, can you still vote? And so goes the 2nd, or at least should.

Will you get in trouble taking a felon? No. They are your guns in your possession.

Will the felon? Possibly.
 
Last edited:
Ru4real said:
Will you get in trouble taking a felon? No.
Click to expand...
That may vary by state. (assuming "take shooting" means allowing the person to actually handle the gun)
As an example, here is Louisiana's law: https://law.justia.com/codes/louisiana/2006/146/285164.html
"A. Illegally supplying a felon with a firearm is the intentional giving, selling, donating, providing, lending, delivering, or otherwise transferring a firearm to any person known by the offender to be a person convicted of a felony and prohibited from possessing a firearm as provided for in R.S. 14:95.1.
B. Whoever commits the crime of illegally supplying a felon with a firearm shall be imprisoned for not more than five years and may be fined not less than one thousand dollars nor more than five thousand dollars. At least one year of the sentence imposed shall be served without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence."

I'd check State and local law or buy some legal advice before risking it.
Ru4real said:
If you are a woman felon, can you still vote?
Click to expand...
In most states, no. Felons of either gender (or however many genders there are nowadays) cannot vote.
 
Last edited:
OP, your post sounds like the opening scene of a Reacher novel. Reacher ends up tearing up some podunk town so he can figure out how a nice guy, do-gooder ended up at the bottom of a quarry, victim of a double tap courtesy of the felon son of the local Uranium mine CEO. It doesn’t work out well for anyone but Reacher…
 
Gun4Fun90 said:
...Is this legal?...
Click to expand...
Absolutely NOT.

Doing what you plan to do can earn both you and your friend up to 10 years in federal prison (as well as a lifetime loss of gun rights). It is illegal under federal law for a felon or other person prohibited under 18 USC 922(g) to have possession of a gun or ammunition, and someone who has given him access to a gun or ammunition is subject, for aiding and abetting (18 USC 2), to the same penalties.

Please understand that under the law "possession" is not only actually, in-your-hands, possession. It also includes constructive possession, i. e., access. Ownership doesn't matter. See --

  1. U.S. v. Booth, 111 F.3d 1 (C.A.1 (Mass.), 1997, at 1):
    ...The law recognizes two kinds of possession, actual possession and constructive possession.... Even when a person does not actually possess an object, he may be in constructive possession of it. Constructive possession exists when a person knowingly has the power and the intention at a given time of exercising dominion and control over an object or over the area in which the object is located. The law recognizes no distinction between actual and constructive possession, either form of possession is sufficient. Possession of an object may be established by either direct evidence or by circumstantial evidence. It is not necessary to prove ownership of the object,...
    Click to expand...

  2. See U.S. v. Barron-Rivera, 922 F.2d 549 (C.A.9 (Wash.), 1991) in which Barron-Rivera's conviction for being an alien in possession of a firearm was affirmed without him even having had to touch a gun. Barron-Rivera's claimed reversible error in that the government failed to prove the necessary intent.

    The court of appeal noted, at 551:
    ...Barron-Rivera argued that the gun was in his wife's residence at the time he re-entered the United States and moved back into that residence. Accepting that contention, the district court, nonetheless, found that Barron-Rivera's possession of the firearm was voluntary because he permitted the firearm to remain in the house after he acquired knowledge of its presence....
    Click to expand...

    In affirming the conviction, the court of appeal found, at 551 -- 552:
    ...In other words, by continuing to reside in the apartment in which the gun was located, he voluntarily and knowingly possessed the gun...
    Click to expand...

  3. See, also, United States v. Huet, 665 F.3d 588 (3rd Cir., 2012), in which the gun a prohibited person was charged with illegally possessing was not secured against the prohibited person's access, supporting both the prohibited person's conviction for unlawful possession of a gun and the indictment of his cohabitant. From the opinion (at pg. 593, emphasis added):
    ...on June 6, 2008, a valid search warrant (the “search warrant”) was executed on the couple‟s Clarion County home. Agents seized an SKS, Interordnance M59/66 rifle (“SKS rifle”) from an upstairs bedroom.

    Although Huet is legally permitted to possess a firearm, Hall was convicted in 1999 of possessing an unregistered firearm, in violation of 26 U.S.C. § 5861(d), and is therefore prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm. After being informed of the raid, Huet allegedly told investigators that the guns in the house belonged to her and that it was not illegal for her to purchase weapons. Despite Huet‟s assertions that she alone possessed the SKS rifle, the Government sought and obtained an indictment charging Hall with illegal possession of the weapon, and Huet with aiding and abetting Hall‟s possession....
    Click to expand...
    So the gun Hall, a convicted felon, was indicted for unlawfully possessing, belonged to his cohabitant, Huet. It appears to have been undisputed that Huet could lawfully possess firearms. Nonetheless, she was indicted for aiding and abetting Hall's unlawful possession of gun because Huet's gun wasn't secured against access by Hall.

Ru4real said:
...Will you get in trouble taking a felon? No. They are your guns in your possession.....
Click to expand...

What a completely useless and incorrect answer.
 
As has been cited, possession can be roughly translated to accessible. The fact that the person in question would have actual possession makes this one a complete and total no go. He needs to see if he can get his civil rights restored and then perhaps you can LEGALLY make a trip to the range.
 
Frank Ettin said:
Well, I'm not sure I'd call it enthusiastic -- emphatic, perhaps.

And I'm not sure that we're really all that happy about what the correct answer is, but we'd rather you stayed out of trouble.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's sad he is a nice kid. Who did something stupid when he was younger.
 
Spats and Frank hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head."

But it's also important to comment on the OP's statement that the acquaintance is looking forward to having his felony record expunged.

A lot of folks mistakenly believe that an expungement somehow "erases" a felony conviction, or "wipes the slate clean."

Neither is completely true. All that an expungement does is to limit some of the legal consequences resulting from the conviction.

The manner of how an expungement works is controlled by state law for state convictions. There is no expungement provision for federal felony convictions (with an exception for minor drug cases). California's expungement statute (refer to California Penal Code section 1203.4) specifically provides that an expungement does not relieve a person of their disability to possess firearms, and does not restore their ability to hold elected office.
 
Shooting at the range is really just a vehicle to facilitate the friendship. It is not essential or pivotal.
Hiking, cars, bicycles, motorcycles, camping, skiing, snowshoeing, and the aforementioned fishing all work.
The initial proposal sounds like a way to get you, the friend, and perhaps even bystanders in BIG trouble.
 
12Bravo20 said:
Again, you really need to check state laws were you live. In some states a felon cannot have access to any type of weapon to include muzzleloaders and archery equipment.
Click to expand...
Yep. Here in South Dakota it's illegal, with certain exceptions, for a felon to possess any firearm including muzzle loaders. (22-14-15.1 )
"For purposes of §§ 22-14-15 and 22-14-15.1, the term, firearm, includes any antique firearm as defined in subdivision 22-1-2(4) and any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, including muzzle loading weapons that are designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute and cannot use fixed ammunition. (22-14-15.3)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

twofewscrews
  • Locked
Bringing a Friends Firearm to a Gunsmith . . .
Replies
7
Views
747
12Bravo20
12Bravo20
M
  • Locked
Changing the definition of a "prohibited person"?
Replies
22
Views
1K
DMF
D
S
  • Locked
What law(s) prohibit possession of firearms by "prohibited persons"?
Replies
12
Views
920
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
M
  • Locked
Question about taking prior convicted felon shooting.
2 3
Replies
63
Views
3K
Sam1911
S
F
  • Locked
Handgun as gift?
Replies
8
Views
404
Eightball
E
Back
Top