So, changes being implemented starting today with firearms transfers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
lsudave

lsudave

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
1,042
I'm putting this in Legal, since I'm commenting on the new laws going into effect.

I bought an upper and lower (AR-10 platform) online almost a month ago, didn't ship for a couple weeks. Came in Monday, shop was closed doing inhouse paperwork, wouldn't do the transfer for me when I called.
I come in today, fill out the 4473, get delayed. I've purchased a number of firearms, have gotten delayed about a third of the time, never a problem. The last two purchases, including a lower a month ago, got proceeded in minutes.

So I get delayed, and the guy at the counter tells me they now have to send all my personal information to the local and state police. He said that started today.

I guess I'm just curious, but assuming I get the proceed (as has always happened), what then becomes of this? Permanent list/database, I assume? Are they required to delete cleared folks?
 
The change was slipped in as part of the H.R.2471 - Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2022 omnibus bill. Here is an Orchid article on it.

https://orchidadvisors.com/nics-denial-notification-act-to-require-ffls-provide-buyer-addresses/

And the Omnibus bill.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2471

Strangely, if you search for NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022, the part of the Omnibus bill for the delay, you just find the Act page for the 2021 bill. Where it was never passed into law. "Nice" little back door gun control they slipped in as pork in a big bill package. The NICS delay starts on page 2207

https://rules.house.gov/sites/Democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117HR2471SA-RCP-117-35.pdf
 
Last edited:
This is BS. I was delayed 5 out of 6 times. Jumped through all the hoops to get the reason for the delays and never got an answer. Now they will be going through my under wear drawer if I get a delay?
 
lsudave said:
...So I get delayed, and the guy at the counter tells me they now have to send all my personal information to the local and state police. He said that started today.
Click to expand...
Thats NOT the new regulation change. Beginning 9/26 the NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022 requires the FBI NICS to collect the address of persons who are denied OR DELAYED. FBI NICS or for those who live in a POC state (point of contact) , a state agency will report that buyers information to a local law enforcement agency.

The gun dealer or "guy at the counter" doesn't send anything to local and state police. The FBI NICS will do that electronically. Now.....it may be yor state law requires a dealer to report dispositions to local and state police, but that is not what this new federal law requires.

I guess I'm just curious, but assuming I get the proceed (as has always happened), what then becomes of this? Permanent list/database, I assume? Are they required to delete cleared folks?
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anything in this law that mentions that. Once its transmitted to local law enforcement, I'm quite sure they will save that info. FBI NICS is required by law to delete a delay status at the end of the business day when it changed to a proceed.
 
unspellable said:
This is BS. I was delayed 5 out of 6 times. Jumped through all the hoops to get the reason for the delays and never got an answer. Now they will be going through my under wear drawer if I get a delay?
Click to expand...
Did you call or requests the reason in writing?
The FBI NICS has never accepted challenges to delayed transactions, only denied transactions.
See: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/n...inal-background-check-system-nics-appeals-vaf

I Was Denied a Firearm—What Happens Now?
Firearm-Related Challenge
If you believe you have been wrongfully denied a firearm, you can request a firearm-related challenge (appeal). You may only challenge a denied firearm transaction, not a delayed one.

This process will provide you:

the reason your background check was denied, and
the opportunity to challenge your denied background check online – including a Nuclear Regulatory Commission background check.
Click to expand...
 
dogtown tom said:
Thats NOT the new regulation change. Beginning 9/26 the NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022 requires the FBI NICS to collect the address of persons who are denied OR DELAYED. FBI NICS or for those who live in a POC state (point of contact) , a state agency will report that buyers information to a local law enforcement agency.

The gun dealer or "guy at the counter" doesn't send anything to local and state police. The FBI NICS will do that electronically. Now.....it may be yor state law requires a dealer to report dispositions to local and state police, but that is not what this new federal law requires.
Click to expand...
perhaps it was his wording. I filled out the paper form, the girl at a computer entered stuff and hit submit, rechecked a few times, and in a few minutes called the guy (manager) over. He told me that since there was a delay, now all of my info is being sent to local law enforcement. He was clearly opposed to it, vented a few choice words and said 'what a violation of privacy this crap is'. They apparently had submitted a limited-info form online, and now had to type everything in as it matched on my license. I freely admit I don't know all the specifics of how things are submitted. I'm getting the impression not all personal details originally are entered and sent, only once it gets delayed.

The guy has known me for over a decade, from several shops and a range. I bought (with an instant proceed) a lower last month. He's transferred or sold several firearms to me over the years. We chatted awhile, he speculated that every purchase or transfer would be delayed that day, maybe for awhile, to build up a good database.
 
lsudave said:
perhaps it was his wording. I filled out the paper form, the girl at a computer entered stuff and hit submit, rechecked a few times, and in a few minutes called the guy (manager) over. He told me that since there was a delay, now all of my info is being sent to local law enforcement. He was clearly opposed to it, vented a few choice words and said 'what a violation of privacy this crap is'. They apparently had submitted a limited-info form online, and now had to type everything in as it matched on my license. I freely admit I don't know all the specifics of how things are submitted. I'm getting the impression not all personal details originally are entered and sent, only once it gets delayed.

The guy has known me for over a decade, from several shops and a range. I bought (with an instant proceed) a lower last month. He's transferred or sold several firearms to me over the years. We chatted awhile, he speculated that every purchase or transfer would be delayed that day, maybe for awhile, to build up a good database.
Click to expand...
What state are you in?

I had one NICS check tonight on a customer that is nearly always delayed. Warned him of the new law.
He got an immediate proceed.:D
 
Got fed up with the delays. Sent in paper work with fingerprints. Three weeks later I am notified it's the wrong form. Get another form send it in with a second set of prints. Three weeks or so later I am informed they can't read the prints, send another set. (Three sets at $10 a pop.) Three weeks later I am informed they can't tell me the reason since they keep the record for only 72 hours. So I did get a PIN.
 
PS. The first delays were in Alabama, next in Missouri. Here in my state a carry permit bypasses NICS but when the bat flue hit my permit expired, permit office out for the count. They extended every body's permit, but the extended permit did not qualify for bypassing NICS. But this time around I had the PIN.
 
dogtown tom said:
Thats NOT the new regulation change. Beginning 9/26 the NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022 requires the FBI NICS to collect the address of persons who are denied OR DELAYED. FBI NICS or for those who live in a POC state (point of contact) , a state agency will report that buyers information to a local law enforcement agency.

The gun dealer or "guy at the counter" doesn't send anything to local and state police. The FBI NICS will do that electronically. Now.....it may be yor state law requires a dealer to report dispositions to local and state police, but that is not what this new federal law requires.


I haven't seen anything in this law that mentions that. Once its transmitted to local law enforcement, I'm quite sure they will save that info. FBI NICS is required by law to delete a delay status at the end of the business day when it changed to a proceed.
Click to expand...
What happens if you live in a state where if you have a carry permit no background check is required?
 
bearcreek said:
It's a NICS Denial Notification Act. If you're not denied or delayed, for whatever reason, including because a check wasn't required, nothing changes.
Click to expand...
Another good reason to live in one of these states:

Arizona Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Arkansas Concealed weapons permits issued on or after April 1, 1999 qualify. *
Georgia Georgia firearms licenses qualify.
Hawaii Permits to acquire and licenses to carry qualify.
Idaho Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Iowa Permits to acquire and permits to carry concealed weapons qualify.
Kansas Concealed handgun licenses issued on or after July 1, 2010 qualify as alternatives to the background check.
Kentucky Concealed Deadly Weapons License (CDW) and Judicial Special Status CDW issued on or after July 12, 2006 qualify.
Louisiana Concealed handgun permits issued on or after March 9, 2015 qualify. Lifetime Concealed Carry Permits qualify for the initial five-year period beginning on the original issuance date.
Michigan Licenses to Purchase a Pistol (LTP) are the only permits that qualify as a NICS alternative.
Mississippi License to carry concealed pistol or revolver issued to individuals under Miss. Stat. Ann. § 45-9-101 qualify. (NOTE: security guard permits issued under Miss. Stat. Ann. §97-37-7 do not qualify).
Montana Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Nebraska Concealed handgun permit qualifies as an alternative. Handgun purchase certificates qualify.
Nevada Concealed carry permit issued on or after July 1, 2011, qualify.
North Carolina Permits to purchase a handgun and concealed handgun permits qualify.
North Dakota Concealed weapons permits issued on or after December 1, 1999 qualify. *
Ohio Concealed weapons permits issued on or after March 23, 2015 qualify.
South Carolina Concealed weapons permits qualify.
South Dakota Gold Card Concealed Pistol Permits and Enhanced Permits to Carry a Concealed Pistol issued on or after January 1, 2017 qualify. Regular Concealed Carry Permits issued on or after July 1, 2018 qualify.
Texas Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Utah Concealed weapons permits qualify.
West Virginia Concealed handgun license issued on or after June 4, 2014 qualify.
Wyoming Concealed weapons permits qualify.
 
old lady new shooter said:
Another good reason to live in one of these states:

Arizona Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Arkansas Concealed weapons permits issued on or after April 1, 1999 qualify. *
Georgia Georgia firearms licenses qualify.
Hawaii Permits to acquire and licenses to carry qualify.
Idaho Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Iowa Permits to acquire and permits to carry concealed weapons qualify.
Kansas Concealed handgun licenses issued on or after July 1, 2010 qualify as alternatives to the background check.
Kentucky Concealed Deadly Weapons License (CDW) and Judicial Special Status CDW issued on or after July 12, 2006 qualify.
Louisiana Concealed handgun permits issued on or after March 9, 2015 qualify. Lifetime Concealed Carry Permits qualify for the initial five-year period beginning on the original issuance date.
Michigan Licenses to Purchase a Pistol (LTP) are the only permits that qualify as a NICS alternative.
Mississippi License to carry concealed pistol or revolver issued to individuals under Miss. Stat. Ann. § 45-9-101 qualify. (NOTE: security guard permits issued under Miss. Stat. Ann. §97-37-7 do not qualify).
Montana Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Nebraska Concealed handgun permit qualifies as an alternative. Handgun purchase certificates qualify.
Nevada Concealed carry permit issued on or after July 1, 2011, qualify.
North Carolina Permits to purchase a handgun and concealed handgun permits qualify.
North Dakota Concealed weapons permits issued on or after December 1, 1999 qualify. *
Ohio Concealed weapons permits issued on or after March 23, 2015 qualify.
South Carolina Concealed weapons permits qualify.
South Dakota Gold Card Concealed Pistol Permits and Enhanced Permits to Carry a Concealed Pistol issued on or after January 1, 2017 qualify. Regular Concealed Carry Permits issued on or after July 1, 2018 qualify.
Texas Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Utah Concealed weapons permits qualify.
West Virginia Concealed handgun license issued on or after June 4, 2014 qualify.
Wyoming Concealed weapons permits qualify.
Click to expand...
While Ohio is on the list you posted, some larger companys still prefer to run the NICS background checks. I believe it's because they don't want to risk an audit by the ATFE to find some 4473s not being filled out properly.
 
kcofohio said:
While Ohio is on the list you posted, some larger companys still prefer to run the NICS background checks. I believe it's because they don't want to risk an audit by the ATFE to find some 4473s not being filled out properly.
Click to expand...
True. I experienced that when I lived there. Very annoying and a good reason to go to the small guys whenever possible.
 
kcofohio said:
I agree, the small stores appreciate not having to get on the phone.
Click to expand...

Most small gun shops around me (Missouri) do the background check online. It is so much quicker. My NICS check is usually down by the time I finish filling out my 4473 and that is with having to use a UPIN. When calling in the NICS check, the dealer usually gets transferred to two or three different people since I have a UPIN.
 
Last edited:
old lady new shooter said:
Another good reason to live in one of these states:

Arizona Concealed weapons permits qualify.
etc.
Click to expand...

Alabama permits qualified for a short time, I bought one gun on the strength of mine.
But it came to the Feds' attention that one sheriff was not doing an acceptable background check for issue, so we lost that privilege.
 
bearcreek said:
True. I experienced that when I lived there. Very annoying and a good reason to go to the small guys whenever possible.
Click to expand...
This was also true in Michigan when a CPL was an acceptable substitute for a NICS check. The last handgun I bought was from a "big box" store and they ran a NICS check even though I had a valid CPL.

Michigan has since lost that privilege because Michigan refuses to deny a CPL to Medical Marijuana users.
 
12Bravo20 said:
Most small gun shops around me (Missouri) do the background check online. It is so much quicker. My NICS check is usually down by the time I finish filling out my 4473 and that is with having to use a UPIN. When calling in the NICS check, the dealer usually gets transferred to two or three different people since I have a UPIN.
Click to expand...
A dealer cannot even start the NICS check until the customers has completed and signed the Form 4473.
The last time I was transferred on an FBI NICS check was around 2016. The practice of immediately transferring you to a NICS Examiner ended back then. The CSR will just tell you "delayed".

I highly recommend the online NICS for people that consistently get delayed on the phone. The recent federal law requiring FBI NICS to report "delayed" and "denied" transactions to your local LE is why.
Using the online NICS Echeck, if the immediate status is not a "proceed", it will be "researching". That may change to "proceed" within minutes. If it never goes to delay, no reporting of that transaction to local LE.
 
dogtown tom said:
A dealer cannot even start the NICS check until the customers has completed and signed the Form 4473.
Click to expand...

My dealer starts filling out the information on the computer while I am filling out the 4473. They don't actually hit submit until I start signing the 4473 and after everything else is filled out. I would say that the 4473 is complete once I have everything filled out and I start signing it.
 
12Bravo20 said:
My dealer starts filling out the information on the computer while I am filling out the 4473. They don't actually hit submit until I start signing the 4473 and after everything else is filled out. I would say that the 4473 is complete once I have everything filled out and I start signing it.
Click to expand...
Its not complete until your dealer has reviewed the form and recorded your photo ID information and completed Part C. If he's clicking submit on the echeck before reviewing your form and completing Part C he's not compliant.

Understand that I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong, but if he's doing it exactly as you describe...he's doing it wrong.;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
NICS Ticks Me Off!
Replies
8
Views
885
F4GIB
F
W
  • Locked
Licensed to Carry, Denied Purchase...?
Replies
18
Views
2K
mgkdrgn
M
G
  • Locked
Interstate Familial Transfer/Straw Purchase Questio
Replies
3
Views
710
gbran
G
M
  • Locked
Am i barred from owning firearms, mental health.
Replies
2
Views
494
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
O
  • Locked
Responsibilities when completing FFL transfer paperwork
Replies
11
Views
1K
Elkins45
Elkins45
Back
Top