Need opinions on a varmint rifle

Post #22 sums it up nicely.

Need opinions on a varmint rifle

I always consider cartridge to the game I am hunting, When I think varmint I think small fast bullets at ranges well exceeding 200 yards. Cartridges like the 22-250 or any of the 1/4 inchers like 257 Weatherby. I guess it also depends on how we define a varmint.

Ron

Jim Watson said:

We live in prosperous times and it is feasible to have a golf bag full of specialty rifles.
But once upon a time, one good rifle was about it

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“Once upon a time,” really seems to have been a long time ago, and largely prior to the advent of the sporting arms industry as we know it in the last ~4-5 generations. The “one gun” paradigm is well documented in the sustenance hunting era from the Declaration clear up through the Civil War to the uncivilized frontier era of the late 1800’s, and naturally the Great War limited availability, which largely didn’t have much time to rebound through the Depression, pigtailing right into WWII - so we hear and read the same stories about sustenance hunting, limited availability, and inability to afford multiple firearms throughout pre-WWII America. But post-WWII era, 1950’s and beyond saw a huge boom in sport hunting and the corresponding firearms and cartridges.

Obviously, not every hunter could afford a multi-gun battery in the 1950’s, nor can they today. But my great-grandpa and his brothers, my grandpas and their brothers, and my wife’s grandpa, and the sons of these generations, bought multigun batteries in the 1950’s through 1970’s. Since the largest game we can really hunt in Kansas is deer, these men typically built a 4-5 gun battery, a 22 Rimfire rifle, a 22 or 24 cal centerfire (220 swift, 22-250, or 222 rem, or 243win or 6rem), a long action deer rifle (270win, 30-06, 300wm), and since we’re American Cattlemen, a 20 or 12ga shotgun, and decisively cowboys, a smattering of 22 Rimfire, 44mag, or 30-30 leverguns mixed in.

Pausing here to point towards the multigun batteries common to sport hunters of the turn of the 1900’s. Teddy Roosevelt’s multigun sporting arm battery is exceptionally well documented, spanning the years on either side of 1910. So it wasn’t an unknown paradigm even ~40yrs earlier than I’m describing, but I’ll acknowledge here the difference between the acquisition abilities of an Average Joe and an American Icon and former President.

Those ~50 years post Industrial Revolution through the post-WWII era, in which the US grew from a struggling new country to the world leading super-power, and the country shifted from sustenance hunting to sporting, and the average American home shifted from transportation on horseback to having at least one car in the garage, also signaled the shift in paradigm where a multigun sporting arm battery became familiar in the US by the 1950’s and certainly a common paradigm among sportsmen by the 60’s.

Recognizing that for those of us born in years which start with “19,” WWII and Korea don’t seem so very long ago, but it HAS been ~64yrs since the ‘50s…

Yes, consumerism is growing. Yes, “one gun hunters” still exist en masse. But hunters and sportsmen have been aligning game size to cartridge size for longer than we’ve been driving cars.

Jim Watson said:

I have been reading about varmint rifles since my first Gun Digest of 1957 and it wasn't new then.
I don't think it is a conspiracy comparable to "assault weapon."

Now when they start calling them "sniper rifles" it is time to get worried.

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I get that "varmint rifle" has taken on a specific meaning through long use. "Varmint" is still incorrect as a word. It's a corruption of "vermin."

The root of the problem is that language is a powerful weapon in the arsenal of the antigunners. Since you mention "assault weapons" and "sniper rifles," "varmint rifles" are in the same category. To the uninitiated, all these terms are disparaging to gun owners. And, ironically, all of them originated in the gun community. The antigunners opportunistically grabbed them when they saw them.

On the other hand, the belated attempt to counter the "assault weapon" terminology by calling the AR-15 a "modern sporting rifle" is unconvincing and laughable.

I really think that gun activists are tone-deaf when it comes to stuff like this.

I recall owning just one centerfire rifle. A 30-06. My brother-in-law even loaded varmint rounds as light as 110 gr bullets in 30-06. Back then it was hard for many people to afford more than one centerfire where I lived. I think I lived on an annual income of what I get a month now. I bought 3 new cars for under $4000.

AlexanderA said:

"Varmint" is still incorrect as a word.

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You are behind the times, it crept into the language in the 18th century.
varment; the chiefly American English dialectal form varmint is attested from 1829; colloquial variant of vermin. Meaning "objectionable or troublesome person" is recorded from 1773.

AlexanderA said:

"Varmint" is still incorrect as a word. It's a corruption of "vermin."

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Thousands of words have the same origin - a simple corruption of some other word. But documented use of “Varmint” predates the United States by a couple hundred years…

“Ammunition” was also a corrupted word. We should all be saying “munition,” as the French base was “la munition,” and somewhere along the way, English speakers assumed it was l’ amunition” and misappropriated the syllable.

Jim Watson said:

You are behind the times, it crept into the language in the 18th century.

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In study, it seems this 18th century utilization is referring to the use of “varmint” in the Yosemite Sam context, as using it in slang to refer to a nuisance person.

The origination of Varmint as an alternative to vermin dates to as early as 1530’s:

ColtPythonElite said:

I am another that doesn't think varmint and .308 go together well, but Remington has felt differently for a long time.

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My dad has one of those, but in 223. It has their 24" Regular profile barrel .605" at the muzzle. Sweet rifle.

Jim Watson said:

You are behind the times, it crept into the language in the 18th century.
varment; the chiefly American English dialectal form varmint is attested from 1829; colloquial variant of vermin. Meaning "objectionable or troublesome person" is recorded from 1773.

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sounds about right.

$700 for the CZ557 Varmint is a good deal, and the rifle will shoot small. I’d confirm barrel twist, but I assume in 308, it should be a 1:10” which is serviceable. Other than the really good pricing on this specific model, and acknowledgement of the cartridge and twist, in general, I would recommend against buying a “varmint rifle” if your intention is to shoot long range targets from a bench. 20yrs ago, as I outlined above, “varmint” was synonymous with “heavy barrel & decent trigger,” but today, better options are available.

But maybe not for $700. Not many rifles are available at that price, and definitely not many heavy barreled models, and definitely not blued and walnut like the CZ.

It swings both ways. We used to get a lot of posts about all purpose rifles although they seem to have died down by now. So do you let a handy hunting rifle kick you around for a long afternoon at the range, or do you hump a heavy target or varmint model in the woods?

Jim Watson said:

It swings both ways. We used to get a lot of posts about all purpose rifles although they seem to have died down by now. So do you let a handy hunting rifle kick you around for a long afternoon at the range, or do you hump a heavy target or varmint model in the woods?

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That's really what I was getting at when I said I would have no use for it. I don't want to sit and shoot a 308 at the bench or at varmints, and I wouldn't carry it hunting either because of the weight.

I definitely wouldn’t buy a 308 as a bench rifle. The ONLY advantage is ammo availability, but lots of cartridges are readily available - and I don’t count the availability of cheap surplus ammo to be any kind of advantage for a bench rifle.

I’d personally be shooting 223rem if my bench only reaches 800 yards, and 6.5 creed if it can reach past 1000.

Jim Watson said:

It swings both ways. We used to get a lot of posts about all purpose rifles although they seem to have died down by now. So do you let a handy hunting rifle kick you around for a long afternoon at the range, or do you hump a heavy target or varmint model in the woods?

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Now what we have are "hunting improvements" in rifles that are actually long range target improvements.
Many, many more multiples of coyotes have been taken with 22-24" sporter barrels and scopes of less than 10X than anything else. And those who actually live on the land know. Rem, Ruger, Savage, Win, sporters, whatever the gun shop had in stock cheap. But they know (know) where their gun hits with certainty.

The last few years, I would say it is certain that Ruger American rifles and Savage Axis rifles have killed more coyotes than anything else.
And what I am hearing right now from some guys who shoot a LOT of coyotes is that the Ruger American 204 is the rifle to have. I dont know if they are saying the regular or the predator.

I don't have a 557, but they reportedly shoot well. The 557 was the successor to the 550, but is a quite different gun. The 550 was a classic CRF Mauser action with a single set trigger that can be adjusted down into the single digit ounces (where I have all of my CZ SST's adjusted). I have three 550s and they are all very accurate. My 550 Varmint in .308 (top in the photo below) is the most accurate gun I've ever fired. It'll shoot Federal Gold Metal Match 168 SMK into .25" - .3" groups at 100 yards. Every factory load I've tried in it (a mix of hunting rounds and other stuff) shot under one MOA at 100 yards. Pretty amazing, IMO. The 557 is a push-feed action but should have the same quality barrel. The 557 also has a different trigger, but I understand that the trigger is also good. Assuming that the 557s shoot like the 550s (which is what I've read to be the case from people who had both), it should be a good shooter.

Reloadron said:

Need opinions on a varmint rifle

I always consider cartridge to the game I am hunting, When I think varmint I think small fast bullets at ranges well exceeding 200 yards. Cartridges like the 22-250 or any of the 1/4 inchers like 257 Weatherby. I guess it also depends on how we define a varmint.

Ron

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My buddy and I started varmint hunting with our .30-06s, as practice for hunting deer, etc. We got pretty good with our under-powered scopes, but the field terrain we hunted caused most shots to be under 250 yards. Eventually, we got .22-250s and it became a safer game, but we kept to our regular shooting angles to minimize danger to anyone, anywhere.

Picher said:

The .22-250 Remington was my first and only dedicated varmint cartridge...in a Rem 700 ADL. It shot dimes at 100 yards and gave a little "change" back. My buddy and I both got them, after using our hunting .30-06s for several years. The percentage of kills went down at first, because we couldn't "bounce" rounds into woodchucks with the frangible rounds. However, the little bullets did a great job.

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I used my .22-250 for turkey shoots, (where allowed). After a while, some shoots required deer-caliber rifles (.25 cal. and up) instead of varmint cartridges. Meanwhile, I really cleaned-up with my Rem 700 ADL, in .22-250.

A guy here got a Ruger 77V .220 Swift that was phenomenally accurate. Supposedly an early gun with Douglas barrel.
He won a good bit more than its cost while the gilt edge lasted.

.308 Yeah, for deer, elk, antelope, black bear, etc! For Varmints, NAH! Unless, you only want one rifle!

AlexanderA said:

I've always wondered about the use of the term "varmint" to describe certain animals that may be hunted, and the rifles used to hunt them. "Varmint" is not a word. It's an illiterate mispronunciation of "vermin." So, this is an effort to portray gun owners as rubes and rednecks. Why are we falling for this?

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The word "Varmint" has been around since before I started hunting woodchucks, as a teen, in the 1950s...with my .30-06, as practice for deer hunting/shooting. The word has been around for over 60 years, so I feel the term is beyond the snooty folks calling it a "mispronunciation of vermin". The term started out as a western term meaning a "bad-guy" in the Western movies of the time. We "died in the wool" hunters would never go "vermin" hunting because we've hunted "varmints" for 50 years or so.

Since this topic has wondered off the track about the word "Varmint" anyhow, here's another interesting twist: It's pretty well known among 20th century sporting cartridge students that back in the 1920's and early '30's a number of ambitious wildcatters and ballistic experimenters had tried necking the .250/3000 Savage down to .22 Caliber. Each of whom seems to have been convinced that he alone had independly created the alltime highest-velocity, and most accurate cartridge for killing woodchucks and sundry other varmints. One such ballistic tinker, J.E. Gebby, was so proud of his accomplihment, which he called the .22 Varminter, that he copywrited the name. Thus expecting that gunmakers or gunsmiths making rifles bearing his cartridge name would be obligated to pay him a royality. Which apparently caused some ill-will and caustic exchanges among other gunsmiths and tinkerers who felt that Gebby was encroching on their developments. In any event, it was assumed by all that Winchester's soon to be announced super high speed round would be based on the .250 case and they were perpared to claim credit. Which is why Winchester's .220 Swift, based on another case they had scarcely heard of, was met with resounding surprise and jealous resentment by those who had expected a payoff. Which I suspect is one of the reasons the superior Swift was met with so many undeserved criticisms.

I'm not a hunter but I'd go plunk down the cash for the CZ. Whether you used it for pests,deer or larger game you'll be getting a great rifle.
I've 5 CZ 527s and have a blast (no pun intended) with them.

Got a 527 in .233/5.56.
Why? - The rifle is beautiful, trigger is a dream. Ammo is ubiquitous and relatively inexpensive. These calibers are well suited to the job. I think the .308 will work fine bit is unnecessarily big.

BTW, was looking at the CZ website and they mentioned the same thing Tikka / Sako does. Cold hammer forged barrels. Apparently that refers to the method used for rifling the barrel, as Sako even mentioned it was different that either buttoned or cut barrels. Must be a european thing? Better? Worse? I know nothing about it.

When I started varmint hunting, around 1959 I didn't own a Varmint rifle, but used my excellent .30-06, as did my buddy. We and another friend handloaded ammo on the third guy's press, set for his rifle. Both of the other guys had Winchester Mod. 70s and had similar tight chambers, so sharing ammo wasn't a problem. My rifle had a longer chamber, so resized brass was a little small for it, causing a few misfires. After I got my own press, etc. the misfire problem disappeared because I sized cases for my chamber. The ammo I loaded fit the chamber better, so it shot better in my rifle. Eventually, my hunting buddy also got reloading equipment, so we were all doing fine!