AR22 9" into 16" barrel

Why not just junk the brace and keep it as an AR pistol?

I am not doing anything for at least another month. We still have time to see if the courts will get involved. We have plenty of time to wait this out and see what happens. As long as you file your form 1 before the 120 day dead line you are legal. Don't rush.

ETA: the 120 day timer has not even started. That does not start until the ruling is published on the Federal Register. Here -> https://www.federalregister.gov/agencies/alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-explosives-bureau

I like the long flash hider look! I also am debating about what to do with my ar pistols, and especially about my 22 ar rifle that uses a pistol brace! Not sure how that shakes out legally yet...

That looks pretty good. I am going to wait before doing anything to see what happens in the court room.

I like it. I used the announcement of the brace rule as an excuse to go ahead and register 2 lowers and sold the braces to recoup some of the funds.

Came out good! That said:

TonyAngel said:

I then welded the conduit to the A2 and cut it to an overall length of 7.5" and pinned and welded that to the barrel.

Click to expand...

Hopefully your barrel didn't have a normal .625 AR tenon length. If it did, a 9" barrel and 7.5" muzzle device brings you to 15.875".

Some .22 ARs have a more correct ~.400" rimfire tenon, but a lot follow the pattern of their 5.56mm bretheren.

MachIVshooter said:

Came out good! That said:



Hopefully your barrel didn't have a normal .625 AR tenon length. If it did, a 9" barrel and 7.5" muzzle device brings you to 15.875".

Some .22 ARs have a more correct ~.400" rimfire tenon, but a lot follow the pattern of their 5.56mm bretheren.

Click to expand...

I will second what he said.

Plus most 22LR barrels sit back further into the receiver than centerfire barrels do. So you not only need to double check the barrel length to make sure it is at least 16" long, but you also need to make damn sure the overall length is at least 26".

A 16" 22LR upper will actually have the same length as a 14.5" centerfire upper.

My AR-22 will be getting an amnesty stamp, but I’ve been building 14” uppers with krink brakes pinned and welded for the last month. I think I’ll be doing pin and weld jobs on pretty much all my uppers from now on.

If the waiving of the $200 tax in the first 120 days is indeed correct, I've got four I'll register!

wally said:

If the waiving of the $200 tax in the first 120 days is indeed correct, I've got four I'll register!

Click to expand...

Wonder if they'll stipulate for the amnesty stamp that it has to stay in that one configuration or if once you get the stamp you can just put a stock on it.

wally said:

If the waiving of the $200 tax in the first 120 days is indeed correct, I've got four I'll register!

Click to expand...

I would recommend not, at least not yet. There are a lot of issues in the rule itself, and it is unclear if ATF has the authority, even working with the AG, to waive taxes and marking requirements, as well as in any other case it being unlawful for a private citizen to possess an NFA weapon without an approved form 1/4/5 or SOT status.

Sit tight for a minute and let this play out, let others who jumped the gun for a "free" stamp be the guinea pigs.

mavracer said:

Wonder if they'll stipulate for the amnesty stamp that it has to stay in that one configuration or if once you get the stamp you can just put a stock on it.

Click to expand...

According to the publication, no, braces do not have to be retained.

This rule does not create a new firearm class. It makes braced pistols classified as SBR citing language in the actual statute ".....a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder,..."

MachIVshooter said:

Sit tight for a minute and let this play out, let others who jumped the gun for a "free" stamp be the guinea pigs.

Click to expand...

thats my plan. I will wait it out 90 days or so.

Once a braced pistol is registered as a SBR and the owner gets the approved Form 1 back, then the brace can be swapped for an actual stock.



This screen shot is from the Brace FAQ - https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

The FAQ answers quite a few questions.

I registered mine already because I think there is a really good chance this will get blocked in court so am I am hoping my forms get approved before that happens. I don’t want to go back to braces, my end goal was SBR’s to begin with, I just didn’t want to pay for it. If you have a problem with being on the registry, I agree, sit tight for a bit.

someguy2800 said:

If you have a problem with being on the registry, I agree, sit tight for a bit.

Click to expand...

I'm not making that recommendation for people who don't want to be on the NFA registry. Even if this new rule could be invalidated by the courts, which is doubtful, that will take years.

I'm recommendung that because ATF is actually breaking the law in waiving taxes and marking requirements. 26 USC and 27 CFR don't give the agency such discretion, nor is the AG able to do that unilaterally from what I can find. Still waiting for some of our resident attorneys to offer their take, but it seems like there are a lot of pitfalls in this "tax forbearance registration", and approved F1 applications absolutely can be and have been revoked.

Known in the small bore target shooting field as a "bloop tube."
This would be a viable option cheaper than a new barrel, I would offer it if I were a gunsmith.

One thing for those planning to SBR, "Hey, it's free, just some paperwork."
Bear in mind that you must have prior permission to take it across a state line.
That would be a non-starter for me, if I had such a thing, I am a regular at a range in the next state.

One of the options is just to remove and destroy the brace which would be the cheapest by far. Home made bloop tube and a stock would seem to be the second. Another thing is I didn't see is anything about stock length requirement but just overall rifle length. Would the brace and a tube long enough to make a slightly over minimum length gun be acceptable? Since there has been no fuss ever made about short stocks on kid guns it should be OK although I have a hard time believing anything sensible coming from the ATF.

mavracer said:

Wonder if they'll stipulate for the amnesty stamp that it has to stay in that one configuration or if once you get the stamp you can just put a stock on it.

Click to expand...

The law says it becomes an SBR, BECAUSE the ATF has caught onto our game where these braces ARE stocks… so yes… send in for your free stamp and upon receipt, IMMEDIATELY get rid of your brace and upgrade to the stock it should have been in the first place.

It’s really remarkable how I have seen multiple different perceived needs all end up creating - or recreating, rather - Bloop tubes…

doubleh said:

Would the brace and a tube long enough to make a slightly over minimum length gun be acceptable? Since there has been no fuss ever made about short stocks on kid guns it should be OK although I have a hard time believing anything sensible coming from the ATF.

Click to expand...

Yes a brace and tube would be 100% as long as the barrel is at least 16" and the overall length is at least 26". Both length requirements must be met. And most youth models are around 26 to 28 inches long with a 16" barrel so they meet both length requirements.

Also remember that the ATF measures adjustable stocks on rifles in the fully extended position. Some rifles are actually shorter than the minimum 26" OAL when the collapsable stock is fully retracted yet are still legal title 1 rifles since OAL is measured with the stock fully extended.

The Kel-Tec CMR30 is a prime example. It measures 23 5/8" with the stock fully collapsed yet is 30 3/8" long with the stock fully extended.

If it works it works.

TonyAngel said:

I am aware of the existence of bloop tunes and wasn't trying to create or recreate anything. All of the bloop tubes that I came across were made of aluminum and I don't have the equipment to weld aluminum. All I have is a flux core wire machine. I did think it was pretty nifty being able to solve a problem at the cost of about $10. I just thought I'd share.

Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing wrong with a quick, easy, and inexpensive fix that works.

The reason MachIVshooter and myself mentioned anything about barrel lengths and OAL lengths is that some do not realize that most 22LR barrels sit further into the upper receiver than centerfire barrels do. But as long as you meet both length requirements then you are good to go.

MachIVshooter said:

I'm not making that recommendation for people who don't want to be on the NFA registry. Even if this new rule could be invalidated by the courts, which is doubtful, that will take years.

I'm recommendung that because ATF is actually breaking the law in waiving taxes and marking requirements. 26 USC and 27 CFR don't give the agency such discretion, nor is the AG able to do that unilaterally from what I can find. Still waiting for some of our resident attorneys to offer their take, but it seems like there are a lot of pitfalls in this "tax forbearance registration", and approved F1 applications absolutely can be and have been revoked.

Click to expand...

I’m extremely doubtful that’s going to happen but it’s a risk I’m personally willing to take. If they are revoked, at worst I’ll be out the cost of 5 stripped lowers, which in total cost me about the same as 1.5 stamps. I already ordered 80’s to take their place. It will take a long time to sort out in court to its conclusion, but what I predict is going to happen is that a court will order injunctive relief before the 120 days is up. That happens instantly.