.38 Special- light target loads. Poll........

What would you do???

  • Wouldnt worry about it, it is what it is.

    Votes: 16 43.2%

  • Increase W-231 Charge til it shot cleaner.

    Votes: 8 21.6%

  • Find a faster burning powder.

    Votes: 13 35.1%
  • Total voters
    37
Palladan44

Palladan44

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
1,904
The fastest burning powder I have is W-231. I'm loading Missouri Bullet Company's 125gr coated TCFP. I started at the published minimum of 3.8gr of W-231 and I loaded quite a few, more than I normally would at the beginning of a ladder......
They shot just fine, pretty accurately, no complaints.....but not the best I've seen, not by a long shot. Quiet and low recoil, which is what I'm looking for. A plinking load.......

They were dirty, quite a lot of gritties in the spent cases....... see image.
Part of me thinks:
As time goes on, I look more and more critically at my ammunition.....and see more and more what's wrong with it (as small of "thing" it might be) than what's right....
Is this a lot of grit, or am I being too critical? Help me out. 20230424_195032.jpg
 
You can read a fired case, the same way you read an exhaust pipe... by it's color. The optimal color should be gray to tan.
The black inside your cases is telling me your combustion pressures aren't high enough to burn the powder efficiently, and thus completely.

You can...
• Add more 231 to increase the pressure. Or,
• Change to a slightly faster powder. (I've had extremely good results with AA No.2 in 38.) Or,
• Change to a slightly heavier bullet. (The standard target bullet in 38 is the 148gr Wad Cutter. Try the coated 148 from MBC. )
.
 
I don't know what to tell you about a faster powder. WST I hear is kind of clean. Bullseye is a go to fo 38 special, but REALLY dirty no matter what. I think you can use N320 or N330, but I have no personal experience.
 
I can only tell you my experience with what has worked for me. My load is a 150 grain cast RNFP over 3.6 grains of 231 and it is a wonderful “lighter load” at 700 fps out of a 6” barrel and 9 fps deviation from high to low velocity when chronographed. Very accurate as well but I guess it is a bit dirty, never gave much thought to it honestly, it is what it is as you stated as an option in your poll selection. As rfwobbly already mention, maybe up the charge or the weight of the bullet a bit and see if that cleans things up.
 
Palladan44 said:
The fastest burning powder I have is W-231. I'm loading Missouri Bullet Company's 125gr coated TCFP. I started at the published minimum of 3.8gr of W-231 and I loaded quite a few, more than I normally would at the beginning of a ladder......
They shot just fine, pretty accurately, no complaints.....but not the best I've seen, not by a long shot. Quiet and low recoil, which is what I'm looking for. A plinking load.......

They were dirty, quite a lot of gritties in the spent cases....... see image.
Part of me thinks:
As time goes on, I look more and more critically at my ammunition.....and see more and more what's wrong with it (as small of "thing" it might be) than what's right....
Is this a lot of grit, or am I being too critical? Help me out.View attachment 1147792
Click to expand...
That bullet has a crimping groove. Are you roll crimping in the groove? How tightly? In order to get more nearly complete combustion in an expanding chamber, you can add fuel, increase ignition pressure/temperature, and/or delay expansion of the combustion chamber. Increase the roll crimp to delay combustion, use a small rifle primer to increase initial pressure and temperature, and increase the charge half a grain to add fuel.
 
Try a roll crimp on a few and see if that helps things. @GeoDudeFlorida is giving some good advice above. If the crimp does not do it, I would go ahead and shoot what you have and not worry about it. Only other thing I would add is when trying a new load, just do enough to test initially. That will be important if you decide to try this load with a small rifle primer since sometimes on a pistol/revolver there is not enough "umph" to set them off. I have one revolver that sets them off just fine and one that is hit or miss.
 
docbrown said:
Try a roll crimp on a few and see if that helps things. @GeoDudeFlorida is giving some good advice above. If the crimp does not do it, I would go ahead and shoot what you have and not worry about it. Only other thing I would add is when trying a new load, just do enough to test initially. That will be important if you decide to try this load with a small rifle primer since sometimes on a pistol/revolver there is not enough "umph" to set them off. I have one revolver that sets them off just fine and one that is hit or miss.
Click to expand...
Good point. I forgot to mention that. I also forgot to specify I was suggesting only one change at a time, not all at once.
 
Right now, getting a faster powder may not be all that easy.

Living with the grit does not sound hideous. You are shooting a pretty mild load. Quickload says under 10,000 psi. Trying a little more charge is also not a terrible idea.
 
Palladan44 said:
Is this a lot of grit, or am I being too critical? Help me out.
Click to expand...
You're experiencing incomplete burn of your powder...not enough pressure and the case isn't sealing well in the chamber.

Basically your charge is too light. I don't use 231 very often, but seem to remember my loaded for a 158gr plated RNFP was 4.5gr; seating in the cannelure
 
I tried 231 in 38 Special and never got it to burn clean enough to use in IDPA. There would be so much partial burnt powder in the cylinder it would cause issues loading the next speed loader.
 
No 231 for me, in 38 Spl. But, will be trying AA#2...Thanks
the original/Classic, 2.7 gr of Bullseye, under 148 Button nose WC. Crimped in crimp groove provided...
Shoots amazing in anything that will chamber a 38Spl, On our Farm!

BTW, If staying with 231 for the 38...certainly going quite a bit Hotter is Desired...It works extremely well with heavy boolits in 44 Mag!!!
I am still experimenting with "Light for Caliber" Loadings
 
Bullseye, clays and universal are not singe base but do well in low power target loads.
nitro100, titewad or titegroup I believe are single base and do great in reduced power target loads.
The VV powders like N310 are single base and are super clean but they cost more.
My go to single base clean power is a surplus powder called CBI, it's used to light up the main charge in 155mm guns.
 
Clays was the leading "clean" powder.
I don't know if the current Canadian manufacture is more or less clean than the Australian made.

I have tried this and that but come back to W231/HP38. I shot a lot of PPC and some IPSC and IDPA with it in .38 Specials and little trouble with unburnt granules. But I do point up to eject down and brush the chambers out between stages.

As FLG points out, Bullseye is dirty but it is soot, not grit. Strange, he went over to N310.
 
My .02;
Shoot it with what you want, and clean your gun and cases.
Back when I started loading .38 Spl., I didn't have a tumbler. I had to wipe down the sooty cases, then usually hit them with a couple turns around them with 0000 Steel wool.
 
I personally don't care about the "grit". Even the cleanest powders available still leave a gun dirty and in need of cleaning, and I haven't generally found that cleaning a gun fired with "clean" powder is significantly easier or quicker than cleaning one fired with "dirty" powder.

I don't, though, see the point in making or shooting rounds that aren't at least as accurate as the gun, or me. So on that count, in the OP's shoes I'd either bump up the charge, or find a different powder.
 
Just shot some 148 gr BBWC .38 reloads put up in 357 brass. Used 3.5-3.6 grs of W231. Normally use 3.0 gr Bullseye for this. Was using those Argentinian SPPs. Saw about the same 'grit' as you.

I like the magnum primer idea, but I'll continue using the SA SPPs until gone. Don't really think the grit is a problem. The guns seemed much less sooty than when using Bullseye.
Bob
 
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