38+p / 357 Mid-size All-Rounder

My first thought when I read your op Jackal1 was....Colt. But I since your considerations are S&W I thought best not to weigh in. But now that you mentioned it in your post further down....

I like the SP101 suggestion as well...but while I hesitate to think heirloom, you never know. Look what has happened to Ruger's Six Series. Things change.

If I was in the beginning phase of my life and money was not tight I would look long and hard at the Kimber.

Having said all that I have much affection for the S&W K frame.

Here's my M66 I bought probably in the late 80's : S&W M66-3.JPG
 
Wow, lots of great suggestions to think about, thanks everyone! I tallied up the answers and the K66 is being recommended the most, by far.

So, do you think the K66-8's prominent snout (2-piece barrel) is not a significant negative for passing down?
 
Wow, lots of great suggestions to think about, thanks everyone! I tallied up the answers and the K66 is being recommended the most, by far.

So, do you think the K66-8's prominent snout (2-piece barrel) is not a significant negative for passing down?

Like I mentioned earlier, I see the current production 66 as a purely utilitarian gun. Due to that, aesthetics can be overlooked a bit as long as the gun functions correctly and shoots well.

If looks are that important, I’d seek out a pre lock 66. Or get the 686 you have on your list.
 
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I just purchased a Model 19 Classic to take the beatings from .357 mag that I don’t want to put my grandfather’s handed down 19-3 through. I also have had a Ruger sp101, and still have a security six 6” and A new make Colt King Cobra 3” I just got off the phone with colt to get an RMA for, due to multiple quality issues they’ll need to rectify that are causing it not to hit POA.

Here are my points for you, in my perceived order of importance given your priorities:

-the best trigger is in Grandpa’s old k frame 19-3, by far. Second best trigger is absolutely the new king cobra, IF you don’t mind the full length reset stroke. (And I’m not kidding, I’m fast fire you’ll lock up the action briefly if you don’t learn to let that trigger 100% forward). But it is smoooth right from the factory. The skinny trigger is not my preference, either. I’m curious if the old colts DA triggers are the same with the reset, I’ve never had an issue with any Ruger or S&W DA’s.
Of note, the trigger on the new 19-9 is the worst of all the guns mentioned above, particularly in double action. A powerful, precise pull in DA, as if firing in anger, lends to the best accuracy here. There is no slow precise double pull as there is a heavy wall right at the start of the action if you start the DA pull slowly. It is my main disappointment. You cannot reliably stage the DA pull, as overcoming this ‘jump’ at the start of the pull will frequently result in pulling straight through to completion. The SA is OK, except for a defined 1mm-ish creep + audible stop prior to the breaking wall. I’m in my 30’s and have over 30,000 rounds on my trigger finger, and it’s gotten a little spoiled, admittedly. But, I expected better for a $900 firearm.


-the finish quality is perfect on the new king cobra and the old k frame. The bluing on the new model 19-9 is not the quality as the my grandfather’s 19-3. The 19-3 is freaking gorgeous, diamond like. The finish is slightly different on the barrel outer, versus the frame. Frame is shinier. The glass bead finish applied to the top strap was done unevenly and ‘bleeds’ down into the frame. I’ll be sending it in at some point to have them repair this as well as work on the trigger.

-any of them with a 3” barrel would be perfectly comfy to carry all day. My colt has a 3”, my smiths have a 4” and 4.25” barrel. I can comfortable conceal them on my 6’2” 200lb self just fine. Appendix, 2:30,3:00,3:30. Of course, I also appendix carry a double stack 4.25” 2011 (Prodigy, mine’s been 100% reliable) all day with no issue, and some might scoff at that. I also have spent thousands of dollars on holsters and good belts over the years, and that IS what makes the difference, for myself at least.

For the k frames, I love a good high ride owb, like the galco fletch (conceals great), and use that as well as a MASC paddle (when concealment isn’t needed). For IWB I hesitate to recommend a specific holster, but lately I’ve been using a cheap “dazzling holsters” leather holster from Amazon at 2:30 with ease. I might change the clip on it, but I probably won’t bother once I get my leather working area set up in the new basement.

I also just remembered that the chambers are chamfered in the old k frame. I’ll need to spend extra money now to have the chambers in the new one machined. :(
 
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FWIW, I really like my 3" King Cobra. When I bought it last year, I'd narrowed my choices to the King Cobra, S&W 66, or Kimber K6S. They all seem to be fit the OP criteria, but I've never for a second regretted buying the Colt.

I love my too except that the POI is all over the place. Colt said they’ll have a turnaround time of 2-3 weeks, which im more than happy with if that holds true. If it hits where it’s aimed once it gets back, I’m going to be thrilled. The finish and trigger are on par with the 19-3, unlike the new model 19 classic.
 
FWIW, I really like my 3" King Cobra. When I bought it last year, I'd narrowed my choices to the King Cobra, S&W 66, or Kimber K6S. They all seem to be fit the OP criteria, but I've never for a second regretted buying the Colt.

I have 4" Kimber and it is a quality firearm. I'd choose a Kimber again over the other 2 with the Colt being a close second. I also have a older S&W 66-2 so I guess that makes me less inclined to be interested in the new S&W's but I'm sure they good also.
 
Will mostly use 38+p but I desire tolerable felt recoil with 357. Also, seeking something which in 20yrs will be reasonably heirloom-ish for passing down, and I guess simplistically I'm looking at something like:
Your thoughts are appreciated and bonus points for inputs from grandpa's LoL
My 4" Ruger Security Six would "fill the bill" perfectly. However, Ruger quit building Security Sixes many years ago, and even quit stocking parts for them. And I'm not selling mine. :neener:
I am a grandpa (several times over) though, so do I still get the bonus points? ;)
Seriously, I'd been looking for a .357 for all of the exact same reasons you listed (except I don't care whether or not it's "heirloom-ish"), and I picked myself up a 2.25" Ruger SP101 just last week. Then I stopped by a public shooting range on our way home from church yesterday and ran about 30 rounds through my new revolver.
I think it's going to work for me as soon as I put some larger (maybe rubber Pachmayer) grips on it, and work up a medium, all-around, everyday load for it. Recoil with the full-house .357 Magnum loads I was using was kind of rough on my 75-year-old right wrist. And as far as the muzzle blast went - it's a 2.25" .357, so what can I say? :uhoh:
Nevertheless, someone had left what looked like a one-foot-long chunk of 4X4 lumber lying on the ground about 30 yards downrange. And after the first shot (which went high) I bounced that thing all over the place with the rest of the factory (158gr SP) ammo I'd brought. :thumbup:
 
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I'm a few days late but I'm throwing in another vote for the Kimber. A 6 shot 357 in the same package size as a 5 shot j-frame or sp101 is hard to beat, and the 3" barrel really helps tame the recoil of .357mag IMO. Here's mine (ignore the Taurus).

index.php
 
I'm a few days late but I'm throwing in another vote for the Kimber. A 6 shot 357 in the same package size as a 5 shot j-frame or sp101 is hard to beat, and the 3" barrel really helps tame the recoil of .357mag IMO. Here's mine (ignore the Taurus).

index.php
Nice looking Kimber!
I wouldn't throw the Taurus under the bus though :D
 
Ahem, ahem, ahem,

Jackal1,

What's this stuff about worrying over getting a gun to pass down
to heirs? The answer is simple. Get one of the older S&W K-frames
that you really fancy. Or two.

AND also get a current production (any flavor you like and find) shooter
for now. Or two.
 
Given the fun at the range criterion, I’d go with the L-frame.

...which was exactly my sentiment.

What's this stuff about worrying over getting a gun to pass down
to heirs?

While a "heirloom" is generally "old". it's not the fact it is old that makes it a heirloom. Nor does value. It becomes an heirloom by being passed down thru multiple generations. Thus after a few generations, it has become old. Buying an old object does not make it an "heirloom" and faster. Odds are, Great Grandma's china was new when she received it for a wedding present 4 generations ago. My fondest "heirloom guns are guns my grandpa bought new when he returned home from France after WWI. They were not expensive guns then, not are they worth a ton of money now....but they are family heirlooms that I will pass down to my kids. BTW....I still shoot them because even they they were not expensive, they were quality and were popular enough that parts are still available, even to they are over a century old. For most of us,an heirloom stays in the family and thus it does not have to have a lot of monetary value. The hope is our heirs will cherish them because of sentimental value.
 
Wow, lots of great suggestions to think about, thanks everyone! I tallied up the answers and the K66 is being recommended the most, by far.

So, do you think the K66-8's prominent snout (2-piece barrel) is not a significant negative for passing down?

It's a negative, you may not want to keep it for 20 years when you might come across something better. I bought my first .357mag in 1968, went into law enforcement after returning from Vietnam, we were issued Smith N and K frames, I was pleased and happy getting a new 19, it was very nice. Later on I would buy a 66 and carry it as a duty sidearm.

Shooting .357mag for training, personal defense/back country hiking, it's best to have a full length ejection rod, which means the shortest barrel a full length ejection rod will work is 3", Depending on .357mag ammunition being used, spent casings, still very hot can stick within a cylinder chamber; shorter barrels require using one's fingers to retrieve hot, stuck casings (potentially all) from the cylinder. Full length guide rods shorten times needed to eject and use speed loaders to load fresh ammunition...something to consider for personal defense.

Quality control at Smith is decreasing based upon personal experience and experiences of others. An example, a Performance Center N-frame designed for law enforcement lead penetrators on door entry teams, suffered from a loose shroud and front sight falling. It was returned to customer service and it returned with the same issues. Two 44mag N-frames, a 629 had a cylinder freeze up so the cylinder didn't rotate, and a 29 that simply broke inside, the same day I finished carrying it for winter in an area populated by large 4 legged predators. I like the L-frames, a lot, the three I have are 686Ps; 4"/5"/6", they are accurate and seem to have better triggers than the newer N-frames. The 4" has trigger hone and polish job done by the Performance Center, it's fantastic, can't do much gun smilthing on the surfaces of MIM parts.

I've been looking at and reading about the new Pythons, early hiccups, and I backed off for a while buying one. After reading positive reviews, post hiccup stage prices began falling to the point I bought one in January of this year, I liked it enough to buy a 3" Python a few weeks later. I only shoot the 357mag double action (single action for long distance shooting) and only with .357mag ammunition. Transitioning from the Smith trigger reset to the Colt trigger reset was easier than I anticipated. The ergos between the L-frame and Python are slightly different. For the first six months of this year, I only carried these two Pythons in an OWB Galco Combat Master.

I won't make a recommendation between the 686 and Pythons, the PC trigger job is fantastic in double action pull...each platform has its own rhythm and they both share the same double action grouping, the Python grips squeeze my fingers together...in rapid double action shooting I don't need to adjust my grip. The ergos of the grip on the 686P is slightly different, I found my fingers readjusting when firing the 686P.

357mag158Nosler-1458fps-535-121_2.jpg (1).JPG

This model 686P has earned the reputation of being one of the best for personal carry, it's Performance Center trigger job pulls less than a Glock 17, the very effective 158gr Nosler JHP has a stout muzzle velocity of 1458fps this has 748ft/lbs of energy for those who are into such things.

These are two Colt Pythons, one is a 3" and the other is a 4" model, these two Pythons have earned a place in the legacy of the Colt Python name recognition. I like both the 686P and Python, a number of people have held and fondled an empty one, a few have asked to shoot it...with their own ammunition and they have a very big smile after shooting it...this part of Arizona is big country with personal shooting ranges.

Colt Pythons 3in & 4in.JPG

The top vent strap, barrel and under lug are CNC'd are fit to the frame in one piece, the internal mechanization has be redesigned from earlier models and it now has fewer parts, all internal parts are machined from bar stock. These are beautiful models that shoot very well and they don't bust up one's hands (when using a magnum revolver grip) during a long range session. These two are fantastic carry models, probably the last two revolvers I'd keep after a sell of the other revolvers. :)

For legacy revolvers with a great history, find a heavy barrel model 13 3", one of the all-time best, I want one of those to with my 65/4"
 
Forgot I had this -- some measurements of K and L frames -- might be of interest:
.


Cylinder diameter – widest part

M69 ……. 1.575”

M66-8 …… 1.450”

M19-3 …… 1.459”



Cylinder length

M69 ……. 1.670”

M66-8 …… 1.670”

M19-3 …… 1.677”



Top strap width

M69 ……. .660”

M66-8 …… .665”

M19-3 …… .654”



Top strap depth (not incl sight base/mortise)

M69 ……. .211”

M66-8 …… .230”

M19-3 …… .218”



Frame – cyl window vertical

M69 ……. 1.558”

M66-8 …… 1.476”

M19-3 …… 1.474”



Frame – cyl window horiz

M69 ……. 1.827”

M66-8 …… 1.812”

M19-3 …… 1.814”



Barrel/frame junction - width

M69 ……. .880”

M66-8 …… .822”

M19-3 …… .826”



Front of frame – vertical – bottom of front to top of front

M69 ……. 2.370”

M66-8 …… 2.289”

M19-3 …… 2.289”
.
 
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