Condition 0 carry

The Glock owners will say that the striker is not fully cocked, unlike a 1911 in Condition Zero.

The 1911 user will rebutt with, "the 1911 has a grip safety."

Glock owner says, "it only blocks the trigger movement, it doesn't block the sear."

1911 owner retorts, "the hammer has a 1/2 cock safety notch."

Glock owner says, "The Glock has a firing pin block/safety"

1911 owner may respond, "My Series 80 1911 does, too. Or, "My Kimber has the Schwartz safety."


But, yeah, in essence, it's pretty much the same.

I beleive that only Colt pistols have the "Schwartz" safety . The newer firing pin blocks are raised by the grip safety.

With a properly functioning 1911, chances of an AD due to anything other than an errant "booger hook" are pretty slim. I wouldn't carry in condition zero just because "Cocked and Locked" is how its taught.

----Added-----
The only reason I point out the difference between the firing pin safeties in the Colt series 80 and the newer types like the Kimber, is that, it seems to me they are functionally different. The Schwartz safety was activated by the trigger, making it arguably closer to Glock's 2 part trigger. The reason Kimber went with the new "firing pin block" was because there was so much disatifaction with the feel of the the series 80 trigger, due to the Schwarts safties (according to what I've read).

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To clear up some firing pin safety confusion...

It is actually "Swartz" (not "Schwartz") and Colt no longer uses this style of firing pin safety (not since the 1930's).

Kimber does use the Swartz style firing pin safety that is deactivated when the grip safety is engaged. S&W uses a similar style firing pin safety though not specifically "Swartz".

Colt uses the Series 80 firing pin safety that is deactivated when the trigger is pulled.

Yes I think that a loaded, cocked glock is like a 1911 cocked without the safety on.

Glocks need to be secured in a proper holster which completely covers the trigger guard.

Yes I think that a loaded, cocked Glock is like a 1911 cocked without the safety on.

Click to expand...

One major difference - the Glock (or other striker-fired gun, the XD would be a closer analogue to the 1911) has a longer trigger pull, while the 1911 has a short and light trigger pull.
Both are perfectly safe designs, and a quality holster is a must for any handgun you carry out into the wild or in public ... but the 1911 would be a bit closer to a ND while re-holstering if some piece of clothing was caught in the trigger guard.
I seem to remember reading that the Army demanded a thumb safety for added safety while re-holstering a loaded & cocked pistol ... JMB didn't include one in his earlier designs.

Why would you carry a 1911 cocked without the thumb safety engaged?

I used to rabbit hunt in conditon zero. Until I got a tree banch on my single action Remington 870 410 trigger and the thing went boom into the air. I used safetys nowadays.

A 1911 fitted with an appropriate thumb safety and a practiced user will not slow down the first shot in the slightest, no matter how fast you are. Given this fact, why would you not utilize the thumb safety ?

Ditto trigger differences, cocked 1911 trigger coud be as light as 2lb's, standard Glock 5.5 lb's. Trigger travel and length of pull could be very different from 1911 to 1911, to carry cocked and not locked is not recommended... at least by me.

you're swartz is bigger than mine

Carry without safety engaged?

Asking to be the next Darwin candidate.

I love this argument, and until now I have always trusted #1 My Internal Safety in my Brain and #2 the mechanical safety on my guns. But.... recently I picked up a Norinco
L213 and it is a great shooter and nice carry gun but I do not trust the mechanical safety on it. Should I?

Leroy

Spartan452, the biggest risk is re-holstering under stress. You could probably safely carry a 1911 with the safety off, the trigger under light tension and the grip safety engaged all day ... at the range under controlled conditions with no distractions.
But for those who take a moment to consider the realities of a possible SD event, some safety devices and design features become desirable, along with a good holster that allows smooth one-handed re-holstering. Personally, I prefer passive safeties (like long trigger pulls, two-part triggers and grip safeties) to active safeties (like safety catches/levers, or carrying without a round in the chamber) ... but the 1911 was designed to be carried with that safety engaged, evidenced by the light trigger, and disengaging the safety lever is not hard to train to the point of muscle memory.

Jed Carter wrote,

cocked 1911 trigger coud be as light as 2lb's, standard Glock 5.5 lb's.

Click to expand...

I suppose this could be true, but my guess is the vast majority of factory production 1911's come with a trigger in 5+lb range, just like the Glock. For a few bucks and a couple of minutes you could turn the Glock trigger into a 3.5 lb trigger while getting a 1911 that low requires more effort. I'll give you the trigger travel is longer with a Glock, but I'm not willing to agree with the trigger pull-weight argument.

I do feel carrying a 1911 in Condition 0 (and putting it into Condition 2 for that matter), is like driving a car without a seat belt, riding a motorcycle without a helmet, riding on the highway in pickup bed, and running with scissors. Many people do those things all the time and never have an accident or injury. I don't think they should be illegal, but I won't do it because I don't have a need to, and there are safer ways of doing things.

The big deal about GLOCK's safeties is that:
1. the gun won't fire UNLESS the trigger is pulled
2. the safeties are all automatically removed when the trigger is pulled
3. the safeties are all automatically returned to safe when the trigger is released.

I'd rather be in a room with testers dropping loaded GLOCKS onto the floor then any other gun in condition 0. Or any revolver even with the hammer down.

Revolver = long travel, heavy double action pull
GLOCK = medium travel, light double action pull

So despite the GLOCK trigger completing striker cocking and the removing of 2 other safety mechanisms, it's being faulted for maintaining one of the best trigger pulls of any DAO (well, at least semi DAO) gun out there. There are plenty of people who pay for a light competition trigger on a GLOCK, and I've never heard of anyone even considering the removal any of the safeties to achieve this. That's a good thing! Drop in the NY trigger if you want it to be safer when ignoring gun safety rules, and the problem is solved!

double

I'd rather be in a room with testers dropping loaded GLOCKS onto the floor then any other gun in condition 0.

Click to expand...

If we're being given a choice, I'd take the XD for that test. Two passive safeties are better than one, right?

just remember the only safety you can ever depend on you were born with (your brain)

keep your muzzle in a safe direction

keep your finger off the trigger (until ready to fire)

the gun is to be treated like its always loaded

put reliable ammo in the gun!

90% of problems solved right there!

Two passive safeties are better than one, right?
I don't know how many internal passive safeties the XD is equipped with but I do know that the Glock trigger system includes 3 internal passive safeties.

In addition, like a cocked 1911 and unlike a chambered Glock, a chambered XD has enough energy stored in the springs to fire it.

Click to expand...

Well, to be precise, BOTH GLOCK and XD have a rather stupid trigger block safety which is defeated by pulling the trigger. Advantage: neither.

I believe the XD has a grip safety that releases the firing pin block (please correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the GLOCK's firing pin block is removed only when the trigger is pulled back.
Advantage: ??
Well, the XD system probably reduces ND's (such as occur during reholstering, as well as the Plexico type), but the GLOCK would technically be safer in terms of true AD's. For instance, if you tripped while holding your XD, and you hit the ground hard enough for the sear to break/release, then the gun would fire. Also, there's the rare possibility that the gun could land on something that hits the grip safety hard enough to trip it while jarring the sear loose.... unlikely as that may be, the grip safety IS less protected than the trigger. On the GLOCK, you'd have to pull the trigger for anything bad to happen. That said, I'm sure there are way more ND's than AD's, statistically speaking. So the ultimate advantage to "the masses" probably goes to XD.

The fact that the GLOCK is cocked by the trigger IS the third "safety." So you can't count that twice.