Why Not Glock

easyg said:

Unless your opinion of a real pistol is a revolver, then this is simply nonsense.

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Oh, "nonsense"?......Real combat/defense pistols/revolvers use to only be made of steel.......Toy guns were made of plastic, hence the idea of not appearing real.

Glock and every other polymer for that matter IMO, looks like a toy, feels like toy, sounds like a toy when cycling the action......Of course we all know when they go bang they're not toys but I digress.

Don't mind easyg. He's one of those fellows riding his bicycle around the neighborhood in black trousers and a white shirt spreading the message of Glock love to anyone who will hear it.

Just slam the door on them a few times and they go away.

Seems that LE has moved toward the plastic guns but for a myriad reasons.

The most relevant to me is ease of use.

I don't think that some thing that is deadly dangerous should be easy to use. LE should be trained to highest level of competence with weapons they employ.

Revolvers are pretty straight forward while 1911's would probably be on the end of the spectrum.

Glocks are good guns, just not my cup of tea since I can't group with one at all. I always hit the paper. I know its me, so I don't need to be told, again, since I know my limitations I use a 1911 with a trigger break that I can squeeze instead of pull.

I group very well with a 1911.

Oh, "nonsense"?......Real combat/defense pistols/revolvers use to only be made of steel.......Toy guns were made of plastic, hence the idea of not appearing real.

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Okay....but that was about 25 years ago.
Get with the times old man.

Don't mind easyg. He's one of those fellows riding his bicycle around the neighborhood in black trousers and a white shirt spreading the message of Glock love to anyone who will hear it.

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Yep!
And I'm getting more and more converts everyday.
The cult...eh...I mean the family is getting bigger and bigger.

I group very well with a 1911.

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As do I.
But I'll bet you would also group very well with a Glock.
Most competent shooters can, which is one of the reasons that Glocks are so popular.

Geez.. Glocks are great guns. So are the 1911's, the Sig's, the S&W's, etc..

I agree that there are a number of Glock preachers out there, and a great number of them are one-gun or new gun owners. I have to be honest, it does put me off a little.. (ever talked to the Saturn car crowd??)

With some of those new gun owners, they have told me the virtues of Glock over (for example here) a 1911, and I have always asked "Have you shot a 1911?" and most of the time they say "no".

So how is it that they are an expert? I'm not bashing anyone at THR, it's just an observation of mine.

THEY ARE BOTH GREAT GUNS!! They both (ducking) do the same thing, and they both have their following..

I have owned several Glocks, I have owned several 1911's.. Right now, I have been shooting more revolvers. Maybe next week, I'll get bored with the revolvers and shoot something else..

The 1911 and Glock argument is pointless. Both win.

Now- back to my question on page 3.....

9mm or .45?

easyg said:

Okay....but that was about 25 years ago.
Get with the times old man.

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LOL ...... True and they are fine if that's what you like. My biggest beef with Glock is not so much the gun at all. Different strokes for different folks.

I don't ever recall the high animosity level amongst the semi auto/revolver guys. It's the ignorant, loud mouthed, newbie gun owners preaching the gospel of Glock and disparaging the classic platforms as if they have a clue about them. That is what turns away old timers who may take a little longer to warm up to new ideas.

When the old timers were brought up on the classic platforms that have work wonderfully for 2-3 generations and saved our ass many times through out history, hear these ignorant, newbies ridicules comments it turns people off. ........ Not only from their inexperienced, exaggerated claims but also from the platform they so choose to use.

While, on the whole, I agree with easyg's reply to Boats, I am compelled to make one correction:

After all, Belgium couldn't even defeat the Austrians, Italians, and Germans.

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When the Austrians were here (beginning 18th century), Belgium didn't even exist yet - we were still Dutch then. And most Italians only arrived after WWII, to work in our coal mines.

It's the ignorant, loud mouthed, newbie gun owners preaching the gospel of Glock and disparaging the classic platforms as if they have a clue about them. That is what turns away old timers who may take a little longer to warm up to new ideas.

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I certainly get what you're saying, and I agree to some extent.
But the blade cuts both ways....

For every newbie who bashes the classic platforms even though they have never even shot a 1911 or a BHP, there seem to be just as many folks who bash Glocks and other polymer-framed pistols even though they have never even shot one.
Countless times I have heard remarks such as "I've never shot a Glock and I never will....real guns are made of steel" or "I have no interest in even trying a Glock because I hate plastic guns"....etc...

I kinda pity those folks because they really don't know what they're missing.
Just too closed minded I guess.

Can I play?

I really don't get the grip angle complaint....it just seems like a rather lame excuse to dislike Glocks.

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Over the years I’ve picked up a number of reasons to pass on Glocks, but grip angle is what originally killed my interest in owning one. First polymer gun I bought was a Sigma (NOW we can talk ‘bout some hatin’). Mebbe the Sigma can’t be buried in the ocean for a year, Yadda Yadda Yadda, but they go BOOM every time I pull the trigger, and they sure felt good in my hand. Grew up on DA revolvers, so I never had to have the crutch of a 3oz. trigger (think these new guys learned trigger control on video games?). At one time I owned a number of ‘em (they were darn near giving ‘em away with free range/duffle bags and rebates), but am now down to one. I’ve moved on to other guns (but I wouldn’t say better), but kept one of ‘em for my bed gun since it does the job.

Anywho…I have nothing against Glocks-it ain’t personal-it’s just a tool.

The above experience is from years ago-today my reasons for not owning a Glock would be:
1. Grip angle (still)
2. Prefer some type of safety on a gun (grip, thumb, etc). ‘Fer those that say a gun doesn’t need a safety, just ask Plaxico, and we recently had a retired PD detective (amazingly, he taught PD gun courses) have the same thing happen in a local restaurant-6 patrons treated for shrapnel etc.
3. Don’t care for the looks-I can’t for the life of me see how some folks think a Glock is attractive. Realizing you don’t (mainly) buy a gun for its appearance, if you have a choice and one is better looking than the other…?

When new shooters approach me for recommendations these days, I don’t tell ‘em to buy one, but rather tell ‘em when they shop, ask “why should I buy this instead of an XD?”

AFA the M&P line, I got all kinds of grief when I once stated it looked pretty much like a gussied up Sigma. Reasons why it was MUCH better were very few (I don’t need changeable backstraps, the Sigma fit me just fine). ‘Course, I did just pick up an M&P 357 SIG-one of the locals that likes to buy high, sell low traded one in after looking at it for 30 days-don’t think he fired a round through it. Don’t know that I’ll keep it-kinda got it to play with and see what all the fuss was about.

Anywho-I remember when Glocks first came out-some of the folks who ridiculed it because it was plastic (I was interested, since they’re pretty much just tools to me), turned into Glock nuts.

People is funny like that…

Grew up on DA revolvers, so I never had to have the crutch of a 3oz. trigger (think these new guys learned trigger control on video games?).

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Revolver shooters have been lightening the trigger of revolvers since revolvers have existed....the term "hair trigger" originated with revolvers.
And one of the greatest features of the legendary 1911 is its light trigger pull.
So I think that it's wrong to blame light triggers on "new guys" or video games or polymer-framed pistols.
It's not a "crutch" either.
There's no getting around the fact that a pistol with a lighter trigger is easier to shoot accurately for most folks than a pistol with a heavier trigger.

I agree with easyg. A light trigger pull is a staple of good shooting.

However, you can blame the new guys, video gamers and a certain infatuation with plastic laden striker subassemblies and whatnot, for claims that their sproingy triggers are "good," even when lightened, as if a short reset somehow makes up for an overall crappy trigger pull.

That's just ignorant.

Looks like I stepped on somebody's toes!

And one of the greatest features of the legendary 1911 is its light trigger pull.

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Which has both a thumb safety AND a grip safety-neither of which the Glock has.
Do you really want a “light trigger” on a gun (which is primarily marketed for SD) with no safeties?

A light trigger pull is a staple of good shooting.

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Au contraire…I’d say the exact opposite-a staple of good shooting is not having to rely on a light trigger pull.

Got a relative that’s a gunsmith-can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen folks show up and want a trigger pull lightened. He usually checks it out, asks them what they use the gun for, and if it’s for SD, advises them to leave it alone.

Normal Gun Buyer: Pick up guns, find one that fits/feels/shoots right. Buy it.

Glockaholic: Pick up glock, doesn't fit/feel/shoot right. Convince yourself that it can't be the gun, must be the shooter. Force themselves to "make" the glock work. If not possible, look into medical surgery to make the hand/fingers/eye adapt to the glock instead of finding a gun that works with the person.

Au contraire…I’d say the exact opposite-a staple of good shooting is not having to rely on a light trigger pull.

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Of course there are parameters. Given two 1911s, even for SD, I'd rather have one pulling at 4.25 pounds than 6.5 pounds. On a revolver's DA pull I'd much sooner have 10 pounds than 12.

Anyone running a 3.5 lb Glock trigger on a SD gun is a little crazy. If I could tolerate the things, I'd leave it stock.

Some people hate them because they are soulless icky, black plastic guns with durability that beats the pants off their traditional metal framed guns for half the price. They are also made by a sinister foreign company. I have a G17, 19 and 26 and wouldn't sell for anything.

even for SD, I'd rather have one pulling at 4.25 pounds than 6.5 pounds.

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Glass half full-glass half empty, eh?
What I see most often on the 'Net is "I'd rather have 3lbs than 4.25lbs".

And while I didn't get this from him (this was my belief long before I read his thoughts), I'll leave you with a little quote from Ayoob (I 'bout spewed Pepsi when I read it, knowing it was gonna tee some folks off!)-from page 53 of The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery:
"A light trigger pull is, more than anything else, a crutch for bad trigger technique".

Hey...ANYBODY GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?!
Take it up with Mas!

EDIT: Don't EVEN get me started on 'Net discussions 'bout "trigger reset" on a SD firearm!

I personally don't hate or like Glocks.

I personally think they are a good handgun but a bit boring to look at.

I prefer American made gun made by an American company. I know that most of the poly frame pistols out there now have some form of Glock heritage and Gaston Glock knew what he was going, but I still prefer American guns.

If you want a Glock then get a Glock.

So why not run around with a smooth and long 14 pound child proof DAO trigger pull and rely on good trigger technique instead of the crutch provided by a lighter trigger?

Because high effort triggers are retarded, that's why. Just fire a Nagant revolver or a HK VP-70 and get a taste of what not even great technique can overcome for long.

However, you can blame the new guys, video gamers and a certain infatuation with plastic laden striker subassemblies and whatnot, for claims that their sproingy triggers are "good," even when lightened, as if a short reset somehow makes up for an overall crappy trigger pull.

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I'm not sure what pistols you're referring to, but Glocks have great triggers.
Like any handgun, you just have to get used to it and practice with it.
The Glock trigger certainly beats the hell out of any heavy double-action revolver trigger that I have ever fired.
And I would much rather have the consistent Glock trigger rather than the infernal DA/SA trigger....the worse of both worlds IMO.

Do you really want a “light trigger” on a gun (which is primarily marketed for SD) with no safeties?

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Yep!
With trigger discipline, a good holster, and a reasonable amount of trigger travel and weight, there should be no problem.

Au contraire…I’d say the exact opposite-a staple of good shooting is not having to rely on a light trigger pull.

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Wrong.
Even the best shooter will shoot better with a lighter trigger than a heavier one in most instances.

Anyone running a 3.5 lb Glock trigger on a SD gun is a little crazy.

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"A light trigger pull is, more than anything else, a crutch for bad trigger technique".

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But we must remember that not everyone who takes up shooting as an adult has the time or money to get as proficient with a heavy trigger as some folks.
I grew up shooting revolvers, and over the years I have shot thousands of dollars in ammo.
I wouldn't expect a young family man with little money, in this recession and political climate with ammo prices skyrocketing, to quickly become as proficient as I am with a heavy double-action revolver.
If a lighter trigger pull lets him keep the lead on target better where's the harm in that?
This is one of the reasons the military was so successful at quickly teaching novices to shoot the 1911 accurately in Basic and Boot....it had a light trigger.
The military didn't have years to train them to shoot, they had just a few weeks.



Easy

Sorry just put protractor on them and the Glock is approx 6 degrees steeper that GM, Hey that's my first mistake ever. LOL

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Geez, I wouldn't think a protractor was necessary to confirm the difference in grip angles between the Glock and a 1911. If a cursory first glance didn't give the obvious difference away, the first time you gripped them both certainly would. To me, the interesting thing is that most people who don't like Glocks will say that maybe the biggest reason they don't like them is the raked grip angle; yet I kind of like the Glock grip, even though I'm no Glock fan. Go figure.

I like Glocks for their simplicity and their ruggedness. They are ugly but they work. Others don't. To each their own.

The glock grip angle is legit. it doesn't just point straight for some instinctively. I happen to be one who can adjust to it but am not a huge fan of it.

JOe

I'll give a legitimate dislike I have of it, which is the thickness of the grip. I swapped my SIGs (P225, P228) for a few with a guy who had a G21 and an M9, and instantly loved the way the M9 shot, but the Glock just didn't fit my hand. The owner even stated himself that it was too wide of a grip for him to carry. Granted, my P228 has the same issue, but makes up for it with the all-steel frame. I do own a polymer pistol (S&W Sigma) but the Glock just feels more "plastic" to me.