Warren
Member
Professionals love 'em! (Especially the .40s)
What Makes Glocks So Special for LEO's
- Thread starter kd7nqb
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full metal
Member
Hey I'm leo and I dont own any glock's.
My wife do's and she's not a leo
My wife do's and she's not a leo
[email protected]
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Until I got my G-17, I overlooked how light they are. They are much lighter than 1911s, BHPs, Berettas ect. When you have 40lbs of gear hanging from your belt, a gun that doesn't weigh a ton is a big help.
I have been bitten by the Glock bug just in the past couple of months. They are very good guns if you only look at preformance. They work well.
They may not be made as well as a SIG or a Beretta but they work almost as well in every catagory. They may not be as accurate as a SIG or as Reliable as a Beretta but they are a well up there in both catagories as well as other catagories.
I think what I am saying is, they are not the best at anything but they are really good at everything. Great all around gun for depts that have to arm tall, skinny, fat, short, women and men. A Glock will not fit anyone like a glove but most people can shoot them well.
The fat grip is the biggest drawback to Glocks. The fact that they won't change the grip to a ergonomic one is the reason I have stayed away for the past 20 years. I finally gave in a bought a G-17. It is quickly growing on me.
I have been bitten by the Glock bug just in the past couple of months. They are very good guns if you only look at preformance. They work well.
They may not be made as well as a SIG or a Beretta but they work almost as well in every catagory. They may not be as accurate as a SIG or as Reliable as a Beretta but they are a well up there in both catagories as well as other catagories.
I think what I am saying is, they are not the best at anything but they are really good at everything. Great all around gun for depts that have to arm tall, skinny, fat, short, women and men. A Glock will not fit anyone like a glove but most people can shoot them well.
The fat grip is the biggest drawback to Glocks. The fact that they won't change the grip to a ergonomic one is the reason I have stayed away for the past 20 years. I finally gave in a bought a G-17. It is quickly growing on me.
Deaf Smith
Member
Simplicity. To field strip a glock is very simple. To swap out parts, ANY PART, is simple. To operate the weapon is simple. It's so simple.... even a caveman can do it!
Strong. Yes strong. Rain, mud, dust, salt, you name it, it won't hurt. Drop it and the frame does not even have a dent!
Light. Except for the newist polymer wonders out, it's still the lightest for is size and power.
Not expensive. No where near a 1911 except for the most basic GI versions (and you have to customize them to bring them up to a Glock!) No were near the cost of a Sig! Or Kimber!
Holds lots and lots of shots .vs. it's competitors (if the cal. is the same for both.)
Quite accurate. Not a match gun but just as good in the accuracy department compaired to Smiths, Rugers, Colts, HKs, all except maybe the Sig (yea the Sig's I own shoot like a rifle.)
Reliable. I do mean reliable. My Glock 17 I use in competition has gone over 100,000 rounds of factory ammo! Still a'shooting!
So yea they are popular. Very popular in IDPA to!
So join the dark side... get a Glock. 'Works every time'.
Strong. Yes strong. Rain, mud, dust, salt, you name it, it won't hurt. Drop it and the frame does not even have a dent!
Light. Except for the newist polymer wonders out, it's still the lightest for is size and power.
Not expensive. No where near a 1911 except for the most basic GI versions (and you have to customize them to bring them up to a Glock!) No were near the cost of a Sig! Or Kimber!
Holds lots and lots of shots .vs. it's competitors (if the cal. is the same for both.)
Quite accurate. Not a match gun but just as good in the accuracy department compaired to Smiths, Rugers, Colts, HKs, all except maybe the Sig (yea the Sig's I own shoot like a rifle.)
Reliable. I do mean reliable. My Glock 17 I use in competition has gone over 100,000 rounds of factory ammo! Still a'shooting!
So yea they are popular. Very popular in IDPA to!
So join the dark side... get a Glock. 'Works every time'.
I saw an article by Peter Kokalis who relates his experineces with a Glock 17 he put 70,000 rounds through over a period of time. Zero malfunctions, parts breakage, or cleaning. A lot of the ammo he used was Wolf FMJ (not the cleanest of ammo). I don't think there any many other autos that could do this or we would have heard about it by now.
I was going to get a Glock 17, but after some time at the range where a friend of mine showed me his Ruger P85 Mk.2 and his G17, I opted for the Ruger. I've put over 20,000 rounds of some of the worst 9mm through it and it has not failed once.
There are plenty of guns as reliable as a Glock.
The reason for their predominance amongst LEO agencies are mainly weight, though that advantage is now basically nil, and insanely low unit cost. Though another factor is that they were one of the first makers outside of S&W to bring a .40S&W pistol to market when that round was the latest and greatest in "stopping power".
There are plenty of guns as reliable as a Glock.
The reason for their predominance amongst LEO agencies are mainly weight, though that advantage is now basically nil, and insanely low unit cost. Though another factor is that they were one of the first makers outside of S&W to bring a .40S&W pistol to market when that round was the latest and greatest in "stopping power".
kd7nqb
Member
Good points, I never realized the depth of Glocks marketing scheme. Also this thread seems to show that maybe glocks dont have as much as a hold on the LEO market as I thought.
They used to have a deeper hold. It seems to be loosening, as every other gun maker who aspires to be in the duty gun market has realized that they were in danger of being squeezed out.
S&W wrote the book on wooing police agencies. They then got lazy and started to produce some pistols that, while never once bad, were not innovative. Glock came along, stole their playbook, and marketed something revolutionary, the polymer hi-cap duty gun. They made inroads pretty rapidly.
S&W responded by...not really doing much. They lost more ground. They then decided to steal a page from Glock's design book. They not only got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, but the Sigma was an abortion of a pistol, to boot. They lost even more ground.
By this time S&W was not really looking so hot. Revolvers were not a growth market, and all of their LE offerings were looking seriously dated. I don't know what percentage of the LE market Glock had at its heyday, but it was 1. a lot and 2. much of it was stolen (fair and square) from S&W.
That brings us almost up to the present day. S&W is, seemingly, on the rebound with the M&P lineup, and other makers are reversing their losses as well. Glock is still a HUUUUGE player in the LE duty gun game, but they're losing ground, and have a lineup of pistols that, much like S&W gen3 autoloaders of fifteen years ago, still work just fine, but don't represent the latest developments in handgun design.
Mike
S&W wrote the book on wooing police agencies. They then got lazy and started to produce some pistols that, while never once bad, were not innovative. Glock came along, stole their playbook, and marketed something revolutionary, the polymer hi-cap duty gun. They made inroads pretty rapidly.
S&W responded by...not really doing much. They lost more ground. They then decided to steal a page from Glock's design book. They not only got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, but the Sigma was an abortion of a pistol, to boot. They lost even more ground.
By this time S&W was not really looking so hot. Revolvers were not a growth market, and all of their LE offerings were looking seriously dated. I don't know what percentage of the LE market Glock had at its heyday, but it was 1. a lot and 2. much of it was stolen (fair and square) from S&W.
That brings us almost up to the present day. S&W is, seemingly, on the rebound with the M&P lineup, and other makers are reversing their losses as well. Glock is still a HUUUUGE player in the LE duty gun game, but they're losing ground, and have a lineup of pistols that, much like S&W gen3 autoloaders of fifteen years ago, still work just fine, but don't represent the latest developments in handgun design.
Mike
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"There are plenty of guns as reliable as a Glock.
The reason for their predominance amongst LEO agencies are mainly weight"
Both true.
Ruger autos, S&W 3rd gen autos like the 5906, 6906 ect, Berettas and one or two other makes are just as reliable as Glocks. Glocks tend to be ultra reliable and so do some other guns. It is the weight that has the cops wanting them. Reliable and light weight is a no brainer.
My Beretta 92fs is ultra reliable but if I had to pick which one to CCW between my G-17 or mt 92fs, I would have to go with the G-17.
The reason for their predominance amongst LEO agencies are mainly weight"
Both true.
Ruger autos, S&W 3rd gen autos like the 5906, 6906 ect, Berettas and one or two other makes are just as reliable as Glocks. Glocks tend to be ultra reliable and so do some other guns. It is the weight that has the cops wanting them. Reliable and light weight is a no brainer.
My Beretta 92fs is ultra reliable but if I had to pick which one to CCW between my G-17 or mt 92fs, I would have to go with the G-17.
Scorpiusdeus
member
By CHP, do you mean California Highway Patrol? If so that's an interesting comment coming from a guy who works for a department that DIDN'T go with the lowest bid. In fact, somewhere there is an article about how the CHP pretty much fixed the bidding, if there actually was any true bidding, to insure S&W kept their business.
Baneblade
Member
Okay, let me clear some stuff up. The normal agency price for Glocks is around $360 depending on how many are purchased. The officer price (here in AZ) is $393.20 with three mags and standard sights. We get Glock night sights for $55 from the factory.
More than half of all police officers have never fired a gun prior to the police academy (if that scares you, try being the officer who trains them). There might be politics involved in huge agencies, but small to mid-sized agencies base much of their decision making on someone elses experiments. In other words, those agencies let larger agencies buy 10,000 Glocks and try them out.
When the larger agencies give the new glocks to experts and fools alike they get the full test. Someone will find every concievable way to break them. In the end, Glock was easier to use and easier to train a Noob to shoot. That is code word for cheaper. Cheaper gun. Cheaper training. Plus, more reliable. Nothing on the market has proven as reliable OVERALL. Put the gun in the hands of someone who does nothing to maintain their gun and then see how reliable it is.
Glock also has $ on their side when it comes to parts. LEO armorers can buy more than half of the parts in a Glock for $1 each. Excluding sights, there are only 6 parts that cost over $10. Glock has an extensive armorer training program where they come to a region to teach the course, which is only one day. Sig, Colt, others... 2+ days and they are not nearly as frequent as Glocks courses. Again, cheaper to train and maintain.
Law enforcement as a whole will never switch to XD's or M&P's for a couple of simple reasons. No substantial improvement over Glock. Certain debatable improvments, but nothing worth justifying $10,000's in replacement costs. Neither Springfield or S&W have armorer programs as readily available as Glock. Plus, their finish doesn't hold up as well, which is important when you have officers who won't maintain their guns.
To the person who said Glocks are $128... please tell me where my agency can get that price because we are getting ripped off at $360 each.
To the person who said XD's are less than Glocks, again, I 'd like to know where you get that deal at. We ordered an XD direct from Springfield to try out. We couldn't get them for the same price as Glocks, much less a lower price. AND... our SWAT team took the XD on a trial for a day. Not impressed. We sent it back and are no longer considering a switch.
In short, Glock dominates the LEO market because of their price, ease of maintenance, reliability, availability of inexpensive parts, armorer support, and corporate support.
Is Glock the "Best?" Probably not. But no other company offers a full package like Glock. We looked. We tried other guns. We tried to find someone else. In the end, Glock Rules, whether we like it or not.
More than half of all police officers have never fired a gun prior to the police academy (if that scares you, try being the officer who trains them). There might be politics involved in huge agencies, but small to mid-sized agencies base much of their decision making on someone elses experiments. In other words, those agencies let larger agencies buy 10,000 Glocks and try them out.
When the larger agencies give the new glocks to experts and fools alike they get the full test. Someone will find every concievable way to break them. In the end, Glock was easier to use and easier to train a Noob to shoot. That is code word for cheaper. Cheaper gun. Cheaper training. Plus, more reliable. Nothing on the market has proven as reliable OVERALL. Put the gun in the hands of someone who does nothing to maintain their gun and then see how reliable it is.
Glock also has $ on their side when it comes to parts. LEO armorers can buy more than half of the parts in a Glock for $1 each. Excluding sights, there are only 6 parts that cost over $10. Glock has an extensive armorer training program where they come to a region to teach the course, which is only one day. Sig, Colt, others... 2+ days and they are not nearly as frequent as Glocks courses. Again, cheaper to train and maintain.
Law enforcement as a whole will never switch to XD's or M&P's for a couple of simple reasons. No substantial improvement over Glock. Certain debatable improvments, but nothing worth justifying $10,000's in replacement costs. Neither Springfield or S&W have armorer programs as readily available as Glock. Plus, their finish doesn't hold up as well, which is important when you have officers who won't maintain their guns.
To the person who said Glocks are $128... please tell me where my agency can get that price because we are getting ripped off at $360 each.
To the person who said XD's are less than Glocks, again, I 'd like to know where you get that deal at. We ordered an XD direct from Springfield to try out. We couldn't get them for the same price as Glocks, much less a lower price. AND... our SWAT team took the XD on a trial for a day. Not impressed. We sent it back and are no longer considering a switch.
In short, Glock dominates the LEO market because of their price, ease of maintenance, reliability, availability of inexpensive parts, armorer support, and corporate support.
Is Glock the "Best?" Probably not. But no other company offers a full package like Glock. We looked. We tried other guns. We tried to find someone else. In the end, Glock Rules, whether we like it or not.
Last edited:
ccmdfd
Member
Coronach said:
Yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens in the LE market with all of the new models comming out. Will Glock be caught napping and loose a lot of market share? Or, will these new designs just be one hit wonders. I wouldn't want to bet either way.
cc
tinygnat219
Member
It's b/c they are TactiCool!
Jenrick
Member
An ancedote:
My department has SW auto's for usage by academy cadets who haven't yet purchased a duty weapon. Why S&W auto's you ask? Well because when the dept. went away from S&W wheel guns (the venerable 686), S&W offered them a deal on tradeins with the S&W autos for the old revolvers.
As our class gift to the academy when we graduated we looked at getting new pistols for the range, as the S&W were pretty ragged. The qoute I got for a large bulk purchase was around $400 for glocks, $600 for sigs, and $700 H&K's. That was a straight purchase with no trade in's etc.
I called our local law enforcement supply house to get the prices not the manufactures. Well about a week later I get a call from a sales rep from Glock who wants to talk about doing trade in's what kind of deal we can work etc. I did not tell the guy at the LE supply place that I wanted to talk to a manufacturer's rep or anything like that. Apparently Glock hunts for sales, and is very willing to go the extra mile to get them. It ended up being too expensive for us to do, even with the trade in. I didn't however ever get a call from Sig Arms of H&K.
From a personal standpoint on why as an LEO I carry a Glock?
1) I shoot my G34 as well as my P7M8, and if something happens to my G34 I'm out $400-$500 dollars rather then $1k-$1.5K
2) Functions well with little maintenance. Compared to most LEO's I'm a gun nut. However even I don't have time to pull maintenance on my weapon as often as I'd like. When you've just pulled an 16hr shift, and you have to be at work less then 8hrs later, weapon maintence falls behind getting some sleep and some food.
3) Reliable, no failures or stoppages in close to 10K in the last year.
4) Because I can't get a P7M13 with a light rail without getting another mortage.
-Jenrick
My department has SW auto's for usage by academy cadets who haven't yet purchased a duty weapon. Why S&W auto's you ask? Well because when the dept. went away from S&W wheel guns (the venerable 686), S&W offered them a deal on tradeins with the S&W autos for the old revolvers.
As our class gift to the academy when we graduated we looked at getting new pistols for the range, as the S&W were pretty ragged. The qoute I got for a large bulk purchase was around $400 for glocks, $600 for sigs, and $700 H&K's. That was a straight purchase with no trade in's etc.
I called our local law enforcement supply house to get the prices not the manufactures. Well about a week later I get a call from a sales rep from Glock who wants to talk about doing trade in's what kind of deal we can work etc. I did not tell the guy at the LE supply place that I wanted to talk to a manufacturer's rep or anything like that. Apparently Glock hunts for sales, and is very willing to go the extra mile to get them. It ended up being too expensive for us to do, even with the trade in. I didn't however ever get a call from Sig Arms of H&K.
From a personal standpoint on why as an LEO I carry a Glock?
1) I shoot my G34 as well as my P7M8, and if something happens to my G34 I'm out $400-$500 dollars rather then $1k-$1.5K
2) Functions well with little maintenance. Compared to most LEO's I'm a gun nut. However even I don't have time to pull maintenance on my weapon as often as I'd like. When you've just pulled an 16hr shift, and you have to be at work less then 8hrs later, weapon maintence falls behind getting some sleep and some food.
3) Reliable, no failures or stoppages in close to 10K in the last year.
4) Because I can't get a P7M13 with a light rail without getting another mortage.
-Jenrick
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