The Anti-Gun Mentality

They certainly see RKBA as a privilege, not a right.

I think those categories are about right, with one addition: those with ulterior motives. Take Josh Sugermann of the VPC, for example. I've read and re-read much of what's on their site in an attempt to understand the anti-gun crowd and their positions. The nice thing about the VPC site is that they don't seem to ever take anything down, they just add to it as they go. You can pull up "studies" and press releases that they put out back in the mid 80s.

I honestly think Josh Sugermann knows exactly what he's talking about. He uses distortions and half truths in his "studies" and "reports", but I've come to the conclusion that he does know what he's talking about and what the implications are. Hence, I can't help but come to the conclusion that he's trying to create the conditions for a totalitarian government to take hold.

My impression of the anti-crowd's thought process is that they don't desire to discuss the issue, they only want to hear an affirmation of their opinions. I've tried the experiment several times in anti-gun forums, trying to engage those there in actual discussion of the debate, rather than a complete "yes, we're right and you're full of it" attitude. I have actually had a few try to debate their views for a short time, and generally the administrators delete any argument I put in, and rescind my right to post within days. And I make it a point to avoid the game of responding in kind to the insults sent my way. Simply making a pro-gun comment puts the management of the sites into shock it seems. Yet, I see a constant parade of anti's invade pro gun sites, and they're not restricted from posting their views.

It's kind of the same thing we see in political debate these days. Those supporting each and every thing Obama is doing were quite vocal during the prior administration in their displeasure, and any criticism of their outlandish comments was answered with cries of attempts to silence them, political discourse was "patriotic" then. And we let them speak their piece. Because most of us on the more traditional side of politics actually served in the military to assure the right of every American to say what they want to, regardless of whether we agree with their point of view or not. Yet now, offer even one small criticism of the present administration, and immediately you hear the cry of "racist", as if anyone who dares to object to what's going on does so simply because of Obama's race.

^

If you disagree with anything the left is going for you are labeled either: racist, bigot, sexist, homophobe. The list goes on, they can't debate objectively, they have to name call.

Most people on that side want nothing more than an affirmation of their views.

The anti-gun mentality largely stems from a simple notion: People, by and large, can't be trusted.

Firearms are tools. Humans are tool-using animals. It is one of two major things (the other being the ability to reason) that sets us apart from monkeys and the rest of the animal kingdom.

The idea behind gun control is that the government knows what's best for you, and will keep you from hurting yourself with powerful, potentially dangerous tools like firearms.

If you disagree with anything the left is going for you are labeled either: racist, bigot, sexist, homophobe.

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So what happens if you're a pro-gun black lesbian?

So what happens if you're a pro-gun black lesbian?

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You will make someone's head explode!

Don't forget the brainwashed masses as a group who want our guns gone. They take to heart what the brady's and the media want them to think about guns and believe the emotional based "facts" that guns are evil and we would all be safe without them.

In my years of studying about the issue of RKBA I have come to the conclusion that one of the main reasons some oppose RKBA is because of old fashion bigotry. Some believe that anyone outside the military or law enforcement who likes guns must be morally and emotionally that they need the "power" that comes from owing guns to prop up their egos.

The anti-gun mentality largely stems from a simple notion: People, by and large, can't be trusted.

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Just to throw a wrench in the debate, isn't that the same reason you carry?

Just to throw a wrench in the debate, isn't that the same reason you carry?

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Nope! People by and large can be trusted, there are just a few that can't -- and I have no idea when or where they will appear.

Nope! People by and large can be trusted, there are just a few that can't -- and I have no idea when or where they will appear.

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It used to be from behind in an alley near a bad bar.

These days, it can be anywhere.

The one unifying thread of all "movement" anti-gun "thought" and its advocates is dishonesty.

I've been discussing a LOT of subjects for more than twenty years, first on BBSes, then in FidoNet, then usenet, now on message boards. And in all of that time, the ONLY people I've seen who were more dishonest than anti-gunners were Holocaust deniers and not by much.

It's not a matter of not knowing. They have not just a contempt for the truth, but a blind hatred for it.

Just to throw a wrench in the debate, isn't that the same reason you carry?

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Not at all. 99+% of people are generally upstanding citizens, or at the very least don't wish to do harm to others unprovoked. Carrying a sidearm is for the <1% who do wish to do harm to others for their own benefit.

As an avid shooter whose wife is completely anti, I can tell you the mentality (but not the person) is simple: guns are the problem, not those using them. Or, perhaps more accurate, both are. AFAIK, there is no arguing with this position. Believe me, I've tried. When I remind her and others I discuss the topic with about the Japanese man who killed eight people in a crowd with a knife before he was finally subdued, I just get blank stares. My experience is antis are very clear on how they feel about guns, but know very little.

The mentality that, "Guns are bad." usually stems from lack of knowledge, which in turn breeds fear, which in turn breeds self-preservation. Why would someone believe they're preserving themselves by giving up their abilities to defend themselves you say? Lack of education which in turn breeds lack of knowledge. . . see where I'm going with this?

The true reality is that it really doesn't matter what the Brady Campaign, VPC, etc. say. The talking that matters is done in a courtroom, and at least for the time being, the court is on our side. Let Helmke and Sugarmann talk until they are blue in the face. Hasn't worked for them since the 90's, and we are on a good path right now to fight off their attacks and prove their claims wholly inconsistent with the "data" they base it on.

With each favorable law/decision for us, we further prove that the sky does not fall, and they lose credibility. Keep the fights in the courts... we are winning.

"Mass produced mayhem" and whatever other bologna they put out may give some people looking for support a leg to stand on (or so they feel), but IIRC, and I may not, no studies from Brady, VPC, or even the NRA, were used in the Heller rationale. Let them talk. Most of it falls on deaf ears.

If and when the time comes for challenging all sorts of individual laws like ccw, awb's, mag capacity, one handgun per month, etc. and the Court wants to look at studies for policy considerations, we will win again. Anybody with basic brain functions will see that their studies are flawed. Facts are facts. Crime does not go up (at the very least, statistically significant crime) when gun rights are expanded. We have the facts on our side, the law (more and more) on our side, and for the time being, the Court on our side.

Go ahead Helmke, have at it. Enjoy yourself.

EDIT: HERE IS A GREAT LINK FROM TODAY ABOUT THE MILITARY AND POLICE BEING THE ONLY ONES QUALIFIED TO HANDLE WEAPONS.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/18/government.guns/index.html

How many guns have you lost??

So what happens if you're a pro-gun black lesbian?

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I would probably buy you a beer and talk about women.

It has been my experience that the people who are most afraid of guns are also totally unfamiliar with them. Ignorance breeds fear.

Forgot where I saw the phrase.... but they think that "A 110 lb women has the right to fist fight a 210 lb man."

BLACKHAWKNJ said:

The recent news stories about Mayor Daley of Chicago showing contempt for safe gun handling and the story from Chicago of an 80 year old veteran defending himself and his wife with an illegal-under Chicago law-handgun has prompted to me to post a reminder of who the enemies of the RKBA are.............

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I think you've summed it up succinctly.

As an avid shooter whose wife is completely anti, I can tell you the mentality (but not the person) is simple: guns are the problem, not those using them.

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I share your pain.

Wife is basically same, and can't seem to understand the gravity of life these days.

When I question her about getting attacked, I get the 'I'll scratch their eyes with my keys instead" reply.

She does not understand that the hyped 160lb dope fiend will eat her for lunch, and her keys.

I carry with her and the kids, but I doubt that she will understand.

It is not from lack of education on my part, but she assumes good in everyone, and must believe that evil folks live in a secluded room somewhere.

I am at a loss here.

I think it usually stems from a basic lack of understanding. I have enough faith in humanity that I believe a lot of problems stem from ignorance and bad experiences. Education and experience are the best remedy.

One thing i have greatly underestimate in the past was the "brainwashing" (for lack of a better term) done by society.

Watch the movies and shows that have firearms in them and analyze the message broadcast. Some are subtle some are not. In absence of real life experience the message in the media takes hold.

Good example, I grew up in a very small town. I did not see my first person of color till I was 8 (seriously). When i did, I was petrified of him. I thought he was a gang banger (he was dressed normal not gang banger style), and was going to shoot me. On TV that is what they do.

When I got into firearms, I was amazed by the fear of them I had. I was literally ashamed (like I was doing something wrong by touching them), to hold a gun. Why? Because cops, and bad guys have them, not normal people.

Was watching "Enough" the other night. A movie about domestic violence. That movie could have ended in 25 minutes if she had gotten an emergency CCW and restraining order and a gun. When she does confront him, she takes and hides his guns and decides to do a hand to hand battle (with the intent of killing him). So it was right to beat this pile of garbage to death but they needed to get the guns out of there. Oh and again, the good person has no guns, the bad guy has multiple guns in his house.

I think a way to battle this mentality, knowledge and experience. If someone comes up to you about the evil of guns, offer to take them to the range (assuming you have the patience to deal with them), honestly talk to them, ask them where their opinion comes from? Confront them with facts, experience, etc. It won't win everyone over but it will win a lot.

Has worked for me a number of times and worked WITH me.

metalman8600 said:

Forgot where I saw the phrase.... but they think that "A 110 lb women has the right to fist fight a 210 lb man."

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It comes from the sig line a couple posts above yours, #11 to be exact. Courtesy of Deanimator.

General Geoff wrote: "Humans are tool-using animals. It is one of two major things (the other being the ability to reason) that sets us apart from monkeys and the rest of the animal kingdom."

Actually, there seem to be quite a number of tool using animals. There is even a bird or two that will bend a wire into a hook to retrieve food from the bottom of a glass tube.

Delete, repetitive.