Monastery raided by ATF, firearms confiscation

Was this in Ohio? I was reading about that last night.

I thought it was the local police who seized about 70 firearms from an abbot (?) for no specific reason other than he was acting strangely and voluntarily checked in for psychiatric evaluation.

Is it a raid when you voluntarily call for help? I don't think so.

Two different issues.

One: The crisis intervention with the resident/employee. No facts given, but he went in for a psych eval.

Two: The next day the fire and health inspectors waded through the "clutter" to look for fire alarm violations, health violations, etc. and didn't find too much.

Two different issues.

Now they've found 150 more guns on a farm. Again, with the guy's permission. John

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/02/community_leaders_call_for_abb.html

"Community leaders call for Abbot John Henry to take leave from St. Herman's "

"But, with Henry's consent, police last month confiscated 80 guns and hundreds of boxes of ammunition from a home near St. Herman's. On Friday, another 150 guns and tens of thousands more rounds of ammunition were recovered, again with Henry's cooperation, from a Trumbull County farm the shelter owns, Cleveland Safety Director Martin Flask confirmed. "
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"After you check out the sensationalized "news" article "

Your post is more sensationalized than the article or the story. Oh, and the monks and the shelter are NOT affiliated with ANY church.

this was in the clevland plain dealer today and i hoped someone would have posted this already. the article said that he has not been charged with anything and he has fully cooperated with leo's in the investigation. he has worked at st. hermans since the 80's and was asked to take a leave of absence. it seems so far he is only guilty of is owning too many firearms and too much ammo, which isn't illegal. police found 230 firearms and 10's of thousands of rounds between the two locations. i hope they have to give all this back to him, when this is over. cleveland is one of the big cities in ohio that tried to ban any mag. over 20 rounds, but thankfully was overturned by the ohio supreme court. so they are not 2a friendly, at least not to me. i think this will end up being another example of the goverment over stepping its boundries. i have heard two different people say "why did they need that many firarms", i said what if they had 230 tv sets would the tv's get confiscated and the owner taken to get a psych evaluation? this whole thing is verry sad to me.

I wonder just what the "consent" was for. That doesn't seem to be spelled out in any legal form and personally I don't trust when authorities say they had "consent".

"Someone told me, 'Guns are legal.' Of course they are," Cimperman said. "But 200 guns and thousands of rounds of ammo for a homeless shelter? That doesn't pass the smell test."

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Blah..blah...blah...and just what does pass the "smell" test. I did not know that the 2A said...the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, but just dont have too many or I might sniff them out.

What a crock of 'fecal matter'.

Now, if the guy had some form of mental breakdown, then yes, I think something should be done, but what right do they have confiscating his legally owned firearms at this time. And what a crock of bullcrap that the councilman is asking for him to step down simply because he owned 'too many guns'

To an Anti, I am sure the amount of firearms I own would not pass their "smell" test...and I would say, keep you nose out of my area and my constitutional rights.

ATF knock and talk "with permission" is usually as many Local "Itchy Trigger Finger" Police they can muster, along with a goon squad in full tactical regalia...

When 20+ show up armed to the teeth, most people are going to give permission...

first link...second picture in gallery

anyone else notice the sweet stainless Thompson/ Center SBR?

maybe i missed something..... why were the guns taken in the first place ?

crisis intervention doesn't make sense. what am i missing ?

I know if I were a gun collector and some badge-wearing thugs stuffed all of my guns into garbage cans for "safe keeping" I would be freakin' outraged!

I hope the owner of the guns gets them returned promptly.

Is it a raid when you voluntarily call for help? I don't think so.

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Think again. If you call the police to report anything, even a minor fender bender that is clearly not your fault the first thing they do is run your tag and drivers license fishing for outstanding warrents and unpaid parking tickets. The police have a financial stake in finding something to charge you with and will use any oppertunity to do so. I know a guy who was arrested after reporting a robbery when the police came in to investigate and found what they claimed was drug paraphanalia. It turned out to be a part to an old radio rather than a crack pipe like they thought.

crisis intervention doesn't make sense. what am i missing ?

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Sounds like a 72 hour hold for psych reasons. They don't need warrants to do that, and they don't technically arrest anyone. And of course getting consent to a property search from someone in that state presents few difficulties, so they're off to the races. No arrests, no charges, no warrant. But you're in custody and your firearms are all seized. For your own protection of course.

I've said it before, if you're having depression problems sort them out yourself, don't expose yourself to this kind of attack. Whatever problems you think you had that made you suicidal to begin with, they'll be a hundred fold worse after the cops get through with you. Look at this fellow. Not accused or convicted of any crime, but the community and the whole world now knows he has some kind of major personal problems and a "scary" arsenal. Which is no longer his, and he's going to have a fun time trying to get it back. All of which will be reported in the papers, BTW. And if he's unlucky enough to get adjudicated mentally ill that's it for him. These laws in question don't draw a distinction between the merely depressed and the truly nuts. Oh yeah, and his career is likely finished and the shelter being scrutinized by every toad on the city payroll. Plus some feds for good measure. Keep your LIPS TOGETHER and sort your own mess out!

Unfortunately the law is what it is and there's not much that can be done about it.

I have an awful lot of firewood. Maybe I need a psychiatric evaluation for being a potential pyromaniac?

Owen Sparks said:

even a minor fender bender that is clearly not your fault the first thing they do is run your tag and drivers license fishing for outstanding warrents and unpaid parking tickets. .

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They are checking for their own safety. Your statement makes as much sense as an electrician using his Multimeter to check for electricity, so he can charge more.

All collectors, including those have have more than 1 of anything, should have their collections confiscated. Clearly they are deranged and do not pass the smell test.
/rant off


Hopefully he gets his stuff back. Also, hopefully, his mental issues get sorted out. But with that kind of collection (which means money), I would worry that the judge might get leaned on a bit to produce a favorable ruling for the PD, ie, mentally unfit.

The 2A says "Everyone" it does not exclude felons, drug users, or Mentally unfit.

"maybe i missed something..... why were the guns taken in the first place ?

crisis intervention doesn't make sense. what am i missing ? "


He loitered around a Wal-Mart from something like 10 p.m. until 2 a.m. and then tried to use the church to avoid sales tax on his gun purchase. The store reported a suspicious character.

The police saw guns in a car "in plain view" on the street. There were something like 50 or 80 guns plus ammo and the car was unlocked. In downtown Cleveland no less. This was last month. The Father gave them permission to take the guns. He volunteered to go for a psychiatric evaluation. This was last month.

Later on, days later iirc, the Father and his lawyer accompanied the authorities to a 70-acre parcel owned by the shelter and recovered - with the Father's permission - about another 200 guns plus ammo.

This month the health department and fire department inspected the shelter's multiple properties and did not find any glaring fire code or health code violations, but there was enough "clutter" that they couldn't completely finish the job.

The Father has resigned or taken a leave of absence or whatever while he sorts through his problems. Meanwhile, the people who have been funding this shelter (which is NOT affiliated with any church) are wondering where their money went.

The above was summarized from linked articles I posted somewhere today and I'm too tired of looking the stuff up for people who won't do it for themselves. www.google.com

John

The 2A says "Everyone" it does not exclude felons, drug users, or Mentally unfit.

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Everyone is entitled those rights unless taken away through the court. Been that way since the country was founded as I recall.

Actually though, when this country was founded some people didn't have any rights - women, indentured servants, slaves. Heck, some places even hanged Quakers for practicing their banned religion. Otherwise, I agree with you.

IF...it is found out that he purchased the firearms with money illegally obtained by embezzling the funds from his shelter....then I DO think his guns should go bye bye, be sold(to me if possible) and the proceeds from the money be given back to the shelter as restitution and he should go to jail for embezzlement.

I guess the thing that bothers me the most is maybe the articles slanted view from the councilman. It appears this councilman is using the idea that this guy had too many guns as a reason to step down.

If the councilman had simply said...this guy had a large gun collection, and there are questions as to how this valuable gun collection was funded....then I would be quite okay with him asking for the guy to step down.

After hearing a bit more of the story, this sounds like very shotty journalism, but that really doesnt surprise me in the least.

Here is the text of the whole news report you linked to unknwn:

"After 57 guns were confiscated from a Cleveland monastery , the city says there were no major code violations.
... SNIP ... No charges have been filed and the Cleveland Police Department is still investigating the issue.

[Copyrighted material redacted.]

Not once does it mention ATF, but it does mention the Cleveland Police twice.

How about reading for comprehension and being honest when posting in the future?

anyone else notice the sweet stainless Thompson/ Center SBR?

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Nice gun. Is that an NFA item or one of those pistol receivers? I don't see those on the TC website.