HK MR556 VS Colt 6920?
- Thread starter mopar92
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C-grunt
Member
You kind of are comparing apples and oranges here.
The HK is a piston rifle and has a railed forend. It also has a non chrome lined "match grade barrel" instead of the Colt's standard chrome lined barrel.
Having held one I can tell you that it is a heavy rifle. The thing is almost 9 pounds bare. Also the thing cost literally 3 times as much as a 6920.
All that being said the MR556 is supposedly a really good rifle. I can attest that the fit and finish is superb and it appears to be a solid system.
The HK is a piston rifle and has a railed forend. It also has a non chrome lined "match grade barrel" instead of the Colt's standard chrome lined barrel.
Having held one I can tell you that it is a heavy rifle. The thing is almost 9 pounds bare. Also the thing cost literally 3 times as much as a 6920.
All that being said the MR556 is supposedly a really good rifle. I can attest that the fit and finish is superb and it appears to be a solid system.
Quiet
Member
mopar92 said:
It has H&K stamped on the side of it.
IMO...
If you are looking for a gas-piston AR type rifle, the LWRC M6A2 is far better and less expensive than the H&K MR556A1.
If I was in the market for a gas-piston 5.56x45mm rifle, I'd get a FN SCAR-16S than the H&K MR-556A1.
C-grunt
Member
Please dont shoot your gun when it's full of water, no matter what the HK comercial shows. You have a very good chance of blowing your gun up that way.
Comparing the HK MR556/416 to a Colt 6920/M4 is like comparing a Mustang GT to a Mustang Cobra. They are very similar but there are many things different about each.
mopar92, please don't feel that the HK could be fired under water where the Colt could not. If you look at that video again, you will see that the barrel tip of the HK was out of the water and then I believe pointed downward once out of the water to let any that got in drain. The Colt was fully submerged and not allowed to drain. Any barrel shot full of water is asking for trouble from any AR system out there.
FlyinBryan
Member
isnt the hk also allowed exactly twice the drain time as the ar in that video?
time it
i would prefer the colt.
time it
i would prefer the colt.
HorseSoldier
Member
On the actual HK416s some of our ODAs ran while I was still active, the main difference between that and a Colt made M4A1 was that the 416 was significantly less accurate -- group sizes were double what an M4A1 would do at 100 meters. With green tip that translated into about 5 MOA.
Oh, and it has H-und-K stamped on it. After the chicks-dig-it factor wore off, a lot of those guys went back to stock M4A1s or shorter barreled direct-gas uppers from various sources.
Not unlike the response to the H-und-K wunder-magazines that most everyone tossed after some actual experience, and SOCOM eventually deselected for use.
Oh, and it has H-und-K stamped on it. After the chicks-dig-it factor wore off, a lot of those guys went back to stock M4A1s or shorter barreled direct-gas uppers from various sources.
Not unlike the response to the H-und-K wunder-magazines that most everyone tossed after some actual experience, and SOCOM eventually deselected for use.
What HorseSoldier said.
With regard to firing from the water...
The tiny bore diameter of any .22 caliber weapon causes enough water surface tension at the muzzle end to preclude rapid draining of a locked rifle barrel upon egress from the water.
A simple slight fractional pull of the bolt to the rear (opening the chamber just a hair) breaks that tension and has been SOP with ARs for about...oh...50+ years.
The "water trick" is contrived example of HK marketing department smoke and mirrors. I'll bet I can get an HK to blow up in the water. I'll bet I can get a Colt 6920 ( or S&W, Ruger, BC, DPMS, Noveske, etc.) to reliably fire coming out of the water.
If you are so high speed that you need to immediately fire when rising from the depths...there are several other weapon systems (including one from HK) designed specifically for that job (diver / sentry / crew removal).
Or you could just transition to a bone stock 1911 .45 or .357 revolver and fire that puppy from under water...with reliably lethal effect.
The 416 is a quality build but vastly over weight and not especially accurate. It provides a piston system of dubious advantage unless you happen to be running a 10.5" barrel or a can on a full-auto weapon. It commands the price it does (in the USA as the MR556A1) due to both HK marketing hype and a disadvantageous Dollar / Euro exchange rate.
The Teutons could over-engineer a toothpick.
I'd buy the Colt.
With regard to firing from the water...
The tiny bore diameter of any .22 caliber weapon causes enough water surface tension at the muzzle end to preclude rapid draining of a locked rifle barrel upon egress from the water.
A simple slight fractional pull of the bolt to the rear (opening the chamber just a hair) breaks that tension and has been SOP with ARs for about...oh...50+ years.
The "water trick" is contrived example of HK marketing department smoke and mirrors. I'll bet I can get an HK to blow up in the water. I'll bet I can get a Colt 6920 ( or S&W, Ruger, BC, DPMS, Noveske, etc.) to reliably fire coming out of the water.
If you are so high speed that you need to immediately fire when rising from the depths...there are several other weapon systems (including one from HK) designed specifically for that job (diver / sentry / crew removal).
Or you could just transition to a bone stock 1911 .45 or .357 revolver and fire that puppy from under water...with reliably lethal effect.
The 416 is a quality build but vastly over weight and not especially accurate. It provides a piston system of dubious advantage unless you happen to be running a 10.5" barrel or a can on a full-auto weapon. It commands the price it does (in the USA as the MR556A1) due to both HK marketing hype and a disadvantageous Dollar / Euro exchange rate.
The Teutons could over-engineer a toothpick.
I'd buy the Colt.
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Well...that's what were're trying to tell you.
Less performance for more money. You are quite simply paying for the HK brand name.
It's not that it's a bad weapon...it's just over-hyped and over-priced in comparison to some better (and less costly) makes.
I would not consider it to be better than the Colt...just more expensive.
Less performance for more money. You are quite simply paying for the HK brand name.
It's not that it's a bad weapon...it's just over-hyped and over-priced in comparison to some better (and less costly) makes.
I would not consider it to be better than the Colt...just more expensive.
Sam Cade
Member
Rubber_Duck
Member
I vote strongly against the HK. I have nothing personal against HK but I feel the standard AR-15 does everything the HK will do at a fraction of the price, and the Colt is a great rifle of known quality that meets all the minimum specs for quality control and testing. It is still the gold standard and the HK is simply an over-hyped and overweight porker of a gas piston gun with a grossly inflated price tag befitting of a pre-ban HK.
I feel LMT and LWRC offer the best piston ARs on the market right now, if you HAVE to have a piston in your AR. I would take a Knight's or Noveske any day over those, and any others in that price range of AR-pattern rifles. If I wanted a gas-piston I would look at non-AR platforms. The SCAR-16S is a successful platform and is reasonably affordable these days and would be my first choice.
I feel LMT and LWRC offer the best piston ARs on the market right now, if you HAVE to have a piston in your AR. I would take a Knight's or Noveske any day over those, and any others in that price range of AR-pattern rifles. If I wanted a gas-piston I would look at non-AR platforms. The SCAR-16S is a successful platform and is reasonably affordable these days and would be my first choice.
boricua9mm
Member
You'd be wise to stick with the Pony. Many things keep me away from the Mr. 556, and I'm even an HK fan!
- Heavy profile barrel with zero with no chrome lining and, according to HK, no barrel surface treatment that would be an appropriate substitute for chrome.
- From reports I've seen, as well as a shooter at my gun clob, accuracy is not on par with a Match rifle, which HK claims this is.
- Straight cut magwell limits magazine compatability
- Incompatable with HK416 bolt carrier
- Incompatible with normal AR15 trigger groups
- Firing pin safety...***?
- Silly takedown pins that require a tool
- Piston setup offers very few advantages over Direct Impingement for a semi-auto 16" carbine
- Silly plastic dust cover...***?
- Silly plastic changing handle latch...***?
- Billboard safety warning on the front of the magwell
- The $2500 price tag equates to a fully equipped, top of the line Direct Impingement carbine with optics, BUIS, rail system, light, and 1k rounds of ammo.
Sustainability of a rifle platform is important to me. HK has gone out of their way to make sure that this will NOT be even remotely close to the AR family in terms of cross-compatability, and therefore, sustainability.
- Heavy profile barrel with zero with no chrome lining and, according to HK, no barrel surface treatment that would be an appropriate substitute for chrome.
- From reports I've seen, as well as a shooter at my gun clob, accuracy is not on par with a Match rifle, which HK claims this is.
- Straight cut magwell limits magazine compatability
- Incompatable with HK416 bolt carrier
- Incompatible with normal AR15 trigger groups
- Firing pin safety...***?
- Silly takedown pins that require a tool
- Piston setup offers very few advantages over Direct Impingement for a semi-auto 16" carbine
- Silly plastic dust cover...***?
- Silly plastic changing handle latch...***?
- Billboard safety warning on the front of the magwell
- The $2500 price tag equates to a fully equipped, top of the line Direct Impingement carbine with optics, BUIS, rail system, light, and 1k rounds of ammo.
Sustainability of a rifle platform is important to me. HK has gone out of their way to make sure that this will NOT be even remotely close to the AR family in terms of cross-compatability, and therefore, sustainability.
JustinJ
Member
Many people, myself included, believe the best thing about HK is they are the highest quality firearm out there. Rumor has it that the military version of the mr556, which is essentially the same gun except with a chrome line barrel and select fire, is a favorite of spec ops and was used in the Bin Laden raid. Their guns are expensive but they also put tons in reasearch and development as well as quality control. However, if i were going to spend that much i'd probably just do a HKG36 conversion. For a great mr556 review with parts pics check out the link below. There is a finish comparison pic with a colt:
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk...have-review-field-report-yet-dcdreamboat.html
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk...have-review-field-report-yet-dcdreamboat.html
HorseSoldier
Member
There are comments up thread from people who actually are in the SOF community. Basic upshot is that, marketing hype aside, the HK416 hasn't been a resounding success, and it's only caught on with a niche market within the special operations community. So it's not a "favorite of spec ops." It's a weapon used by certain end users who have requirements for a weapon that's marginal on accuracy but good to run with suppressors or very short barrels.
To be fair, it is more successful than HK's last SOF offering, the Mk 23, but that really isn't saying much.
Which explains why they put the safety on the MP5 and other weapons of that generation where no one without orangutan hands can manipulate it without breaking their grip. Or why the USP series of pistols has such a remarkably high bore line. Or why they seem to have deliberately designed the HK416/MR556 lower to not be compatible with PMAGs but to allow better use of the "non firing hand grips front of magwell" shooting technique that no one with any training had used for a few decades. Or why they used such cheap steel in their "improved" AR magazines that when my unit got them we were literally having misfeeds due to bent feedlips the first day we took them out onto the flat range (to say nothing of how the "non binding follower" on them would, well, bind more frequently than USGI aluminum mags in good condition).
I will say that I used to be an HK true believer when I had zero experience with their weapons. Some time on the range with MP5s, HK53s, and HK416s pretty quickly illustrated to me that while their stuff isn't bad, it doesn't live up to the claims of the HK propaganda machine nor justify the price tag.
What does that have to do with anything relevant to a fighting rifle? If they spent more money on quality barrels and consequent accuracy rather than trying to make their product look polished and pretty externally maybe they'd do better with serious shooters.
JustinJ
Member
"There are comments up thread from people who actually are in the SOF community. Basic upshot is that, marketing hype aside, the HK416 hasn't been a resounding success, and it's only caught on with a niche market within the special operations community. So it's not a "favorite of spec ops." It's a weapon used by certain end users who have requirements for a weapon that's marginal on accuracy but good to run with suppressors or very short barrels."
A few random people posting anonymously on message boards of their personal opinions is more credible than published articles that reference people actually in the SOF community? I'm not accusing anybody here of lying about their credentials but there is little question as to which source is more credible from the perspective of someone reading this board who has never met the people you refer to.
I'm not getting into a DI vs Piston debate but obviously enough believe the 416 has superior reliability.
"Which explains why they put the safety on the MP5 and other weapons of that generation where no one without orangutan hands can manipulate it without breaking their grip. Or why the USP series of pistols has such a remarkably high bore line."
Yet they still became a couple of the most commonly used military/LE weapons all over the world. Imperfect designs proves that HK doesn't invest heavily in R&D? Engineering is always a compromise in one thing or the other. HK has a long, undeniable history of innovation and quality.
"I will say that I used to be an HK true believer when I had zero experience with their weapons."
So then why were you a believer?
"Some time on the range with MP5s, HK53s, and HK416s pretty quickly illustrated to me that while their stuff isn't bad, it doesn't live up to the claims of the HK propaganda machine nor justify the price tag."
Again, their prevalance world wide says different.
"Quote:
There is a finish comparison pic with a colt:
What does that have to do with anything relevant to a fighting rifle? If they spent more money on quality barrels and consequent accuracy rather than trying to make their product look polished and pretty externally maybe they'd do better with serious shooters."
It's an indication of attention to detail which generally is an indication of quality. And what supposedly is wrong with HK barrels? A gas piston rifle's chrome lined barrel designed for a select fire weapon isn't meant for bench rest competition.
A few random people posting anonymously on message boards of their personal opinions is more credible than published articles that reference people actually in the SOF community? I'm not accusing anybody here of lying about their credentials but there is little question as to which source is more credible from the perspective of someone reading this board who has never met the people you refer to.
I'm not getting into a DI vs Piston debate but obviously enough believe the 416 has superior reliability.
"Which explains why they put the safety on the MP5 and other weapons of that generation where no one without orangutan hands can manipulate it without breaking their grip. Or why the USP series of pistols has such a remarkably high bore line."
Yet they still became a couple of the most commonly used military/LE weapons all over the world. Imperfect designs proves that HK doesn't invest heavily in R&D? Engineering is always a compromise in one thing or the other. HK has a long, undeniable history of innovation and quality.
"I will say that I used to be an HK true believer when I had zero experience with their weapons."
So then why were you a believer?
"Some time on the range with MP5s, HK53s, and HK416s pretty quickly illustrated to me that while their stuff isn't bad, it doesn't live up to the claims of the HK propaganda machine nor justify the price tag."
Again, their prevalance world wide says different.
"Quote:
There is a finish comparison pic with a colt:
What does that have to do with anything relevant to a fighting rifle? If they spent more money on quality barrels and consequent accuracy rather than trying to make their product look polished and pretty externally maybe they'd do better with serious shooters."
It's an indication of attention to detail which generally is an indication of quality. And what supposedly is wrong with HK barrels? A gas piston rifle's chrome lined barrel designed for a select fire weapon isn't meant for bench rest competition.
If you've already got the 6290 stick with that and enjoy it. I see no reason to switch to anything else unless you are looking for a different setup. The 6290 is built very well with good parts. I short of changing handguards or moving to a different barrel length/gas system length, I don't see much I would touch.
Sam Cade
Member
...and what first world nations use H&K rifles as their standard issue weapon?
Lets list them.
1.Germany
2.Spain
3.??
Rubber_Duck
Member
If you're going to bring that into the discussion might as well include both parties, so what countries use the AR-15/M-16/M4 as their PRIMARY infantry rifle?
I know the United States, Canada, and Israel are using them. IIRC there are several Asian countires that field the M16/M4 variants as their primary fighting rifle.
12131
Member
Based on?
Like who? I probably know them. If I don't know them, I'm pretty sure I know of them...or know their bosses. If they are currently on Active Duty...and in the community...they ain't talking to reporters. Most of the recent "sources" are Former Action Guys, Administration leakers, or military staff echelons speaking both speculatively and out of school. All of them looking for a warm and fuzzy belly rub from the press (or a paycheck).
In that respect, no more verifiable than the "anonymous" postings on this forum...nicht wahr?
Most of the open source press since Abbottabad is simple civilian gushing over an old weapon, acting as if the 416 is something new under the sun. At this point, the 416 simply provides grist for some writers to get paid for articles.
In comparison to the tens of millions of AKs & ARs out there, the military world is not exactly awash with HK products. If you doubt that, head to the sound of the guns almost anywhere in the world.
If you aren't doing the HAF/GAF thing downrange, you'll probably not appreciate the 416's actual niche in the US SOF pantheon of weapons.
For purposes of the OP's question, I'll reiterate: A stock Colt is a better weapon and a better buy. That's my considered and anonymous opinion.
YMMV.
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Sam Cade
Member
That's my considered and anonymous opinion.
YMMV.
The venerable Sgt. has spoken, heed ye now his words lest ye rouse his ire.
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