Help Needed in Taking the AR-15 Plunge

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PR-NJ

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I've pretty much narrowed down the manufacturer to Daniel Defense. (I realize there are less expensive ARs that many believe are just as good, and no, I don't want to build one.) My conundrum is which model?

  • Carbine length or mid-length? (The “M4 Profile” (V2) and the “Govt Profile” (V3) both appear to have 16” barrels, but the former is considered carbine length, and the latter mid-length.)
  • Standard or lightweight barrel?
  • Standard rail, extended rail or hand guard?
https://danieldefense.com/rifles.html

I want a good “all around” rifle—something I can shoot right out of the box. I like the idea of iron sights, at least as a back-up.

I don’t plan to own more than one AR-15 nor do I plan to overload the gun with optics, lights, etc. (but a few select add-ons is not out of the question).

Any advice will be appreciated.
 
I like mid lengths for a variety of reasons. You get a bit more handguard real estate, a longer sight radius and nicer looks. allegedly they are supposed to be smoother shooting and easier on moving parts but that remains to be seen.
 
Here's my little summary. Hope it helps!

  • Mid length is just a longer handguard vs the shorter carbine handguard on the M4 style. The M4 barrel also has a grenade launcher barrel cutout (good luck getting one of those! :D) whereas the GOVT. profile barrel is smooth the whole length of the barrel. It's pretty much just a preference issue there.
  • A lightwight barrel will heat up faster, but a standard barrel is a little heavier. Again, it's a preference issue there.
  • Lastly, rails do have some use other that going "tacticool." If your only going with one AR, you may want a grip. If it's going to double as a HD rifle, you may want to throw a light on there. Rails add flexability, but weight comes with it.

For an all around rifle given your options, I would go with a mid length upper with a standard barrel and standard rail. No need for extra weight, but plenty of flexibility. Good luck and let us know what you go with!
 
I don’t plan to own more than one AR-15

Well I am not a big AR fan but rather prefer the AK. I bought my first AR just so I could do a range comparison, now own over a dozen.

What I have found is both the AR and AK are like Lays potato chips *You just can't have one*

Start with the one that you find most appealing and I am sure if it suits you there will be more in the future.
 
An M4 bbl. is just a government profile with an extra area turned down in front of the front sight base to facilitate mounting an M79 grenade launcher. Between the DD M4 V2 & V3 just pick the gas system & handguard length you prefer. I've owned AR-15s from most of the top tier makers, and you won't be disappointed with DD.


Side Information:
I went with the DD V1 to get rifle length rails on a 16" bbl, plus the capability to mount a light on the top rail forward of the front sight base. Gunsmith Ned Christiansen's ILM description explains the benefits of this light mount position - http://www.m-guns.com/tool_new.php?product=ilm.
 
I have a v1. If I were buying now (and may get a second) I'd get a V5, or the V7 (not on the website but they are offering it ... Basically a v5 with the modular rail). I'd get a lightweight barrel.

IMO if you are going to stick with a 16" barrel, might as well get the midlength gas system.

I like the longer rails, primarily because I like to grip the gun far out on the rail. On my v1, I mount a white light in front of the fsb.

IMO LW barrel is the way to go for a carbine. Gov't profile does not make a lot of sense to me.

I have the V1 with the gov't profile because I bought it in early 2009, and that was all they offered at the time. I'm very happy with the gun overall, and DD customer service is top notch.
 
If I were shopping for a complete DR rifle, it would be a DDM4V5 (which I wish they offered with an FSP handguard, or their new-ish slick handguard). I like gov/med contour barrels, long handguards, midlength gas, and fixed FSBs.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
 
rock river arms predetor

:Di love my ar it's got a 20 in bull barrel stainless all the hogue grips are awesome i put a leupold 2.5 x 10 on it and it rocks:
 
Mid length is just a longer handguard vs the shorter carbine handguard on the M4 style.

Just to clarify, the midlength also has a longer gas system which gives a subjectively different feel to the recoil and a few extra microseconds of time for the bolt to unlock and cycle (it is closer to the original design times of the 20" rifle than the carbine is).

The longer handguard is also nice if you prefer a more forward grip or like the greater sight radius.
 
Gas length on ALL AR's classed as rifles is 5-7" from the MUZZLE. When you shorten the barrel, you shorten the distance from the chamber to port - distance from port to muzzle stays the same if optimum reliability is needed.

What confuses the situation is BATF legal M4 clones with carbine gas and 16" barrels. It was originally sold that way to placate the masses. As time went on, the makers had problems with the excessive port to muzzle length battering the action. MILSPEC guns aren't that long, they are 14.5", and it does make a difference. Enough the makers invented midlength to cut down on Customer Service returns.

The real question that needs to be answered first, before which gun, is What distances will the gun be shot, at what targets? A long range paper target gun won't be the optimum short range live target gun. It may not even be best to use 5.56, as all the hunters going alternate calibers will attest. Some can't use 5.56 hunting simply because it's not legal in their jurisdiction to hunt with one.

For general plinking, 5.56 is inexpensive, and works on smaller live game. 16" for 300 yards and less, 20" for 500 yards and less. Milspec barrels are fine, the new standard on the M4 is NO M203 cuts on the barrel. There's a lot of them still out there, and I seriously doubt they will keep being made, it's a weak point when the gun overheats. Barrel profile is no guarantee of accuracy. The HBAR is a pound heavier, but most don't report it better than 1MOA. Stainless precision barrels are generally accurate - for long range shooting or varminting. On deer and hogs, a 16" carbon barrel does fine. Goes to the question, what range, what target?

If you want more lethality or range, other calibers are available, and none are cheap. They are all commercial priced cartridges just like .30-30 or .30-06. If shooting hundreds of rounds a year and not reloading is part of your shooting style, don't get them. Stick with cheap military surplus or reject ammo.

From there, the A3 flattop is the best upper, you can mount nearly any optic to the rail. Furniture is base lined by the fixed stock, A1 for a slightly shorter length of pull, A2 for longer. The adjustable stock is next, for extra cost, and most people set it on one length, but claim they "need" the collapsible feature. Apparently they have small trunks in their car.

It's up to you to decide if a $200-350 free float quad rail is necessary. A light can be mounted to the AR without it, and the money saved will buy 1000 rounds of PMC or a turret press reloading kit. What the free float cannot do is make the barrel any more accurate that your skill and it's natural group make it. Most commercial M4's run 1-2 MOA, about a 2" group at 100 yards. That's military specification shooting issue ammo. It doesn't suddenly start shooting 1/2MOA just because a free float is on it - a stainless precision barrel is almost mandatory first. Don't get the cart before the horse.

Triggers are a huge fad now, with fanboys dropping $250 for target triggers with 2 pound pulls. Goes back to what range, what target? On a stainless precision rifle, sure. A field gun for deer, the stock GI does fine, just add an adjustable take up screw and save $200. It gives most of what the adjustable target trigger does, have a short reset and short travel. Since the sear doesn't slide over as long a distance, most of the grittiness will be eliminated, just like the common bolt action hunting rifle on the rack.

Saved money on the freefloat and trigger gives you $400 to buy the red dot or scope you want. An S&W with Aimpoint Patrol could be had for about $1000 - for example. No problem with DD as a choice.

Ask What range, What target? and narrow down what you will want to the gun to do well most of the time you shoot it, and it won't be compromised by options that work at cross purposes. That avoids the M4 with bipod and target scope syndrome that gets posted up on so many forums, a cross breed that can't excel at anything and frustrates the owner.
 
Well, you chose a good brand. DD makes good stuff and shouldn't disappoint.

I'd go with the 16" mid length gas system. They shoot a bit smoother with a bit less wear and tear on the rifle. I'd also go with the government profile barrel, rather than the lightweight. Both are the same diameter (if I remember right) under the handguard, with the only difference being from the gas block forward, so there isn't much of a difference in weight.

If saving ounces is important to you, then go with the lightweight barrel. There isn't going to be much difference in heating up or cooling down between the two.

As for the handguard, unless I'm trying to build something that will be shot from a bipod or rest, I generally tend to stick with MOE guards. More specifically, the rifle length.
 
You can get a brand new Colt 6920 or 6720 for under a grand. Put on whatever rail you like (Troy TRX is my favorite) and it's still significantly less and a true milspec rifle minus select fire.
 
After having owned all the common configurations (carbines, mids, rifles, quads, float tubes, plastic handguards, various fixed and telescoping stocks, GI and match triggers, irons, scopes, illuminated scopes, and holo optics), this is what I would go with for a general AR that I wasn't going to shoot in rifle matches:

20" A1 or A2 barrel, A2 reciever with GI sight aperature, GI A2 plastic handguards, A1 stock, A2 grip, and two-stage trigger at 4-4.5 pounds.

If I wanted to shoot in occaisonal matches and still was only going to own just one AR, it would be like above but with a SS heavy barrel with 1:8 twist.
 
You can get a brand new Colt 6920 or 6720 for under a grand. Put on whatever rail you like (Troy TRX is my favorite) and it's still significantly less and a true milspec rifle minus select fire.
I can't buy a Colt and add an equivalent rail for significantly less than I can buy a DD. One of my local dealers sells the DDM4V1 for under $1200. Also, what about a DDM4 isn't Mil Spec, that is Mil Spec on a Colt?

Ohh, and if the DDM4V7 was out when I bought my V1, I would've bought the V7 instead. Here's a link to a dealer who has the V7 for just over $1100, and will ship it - http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-ddm4v7.html
 
I can't buy a Colt and add an equivalent rail for significantly less than I can buy a DD.

I was going by the DD web site pricing as posted in the OP but apparently they are available for less than shown there although the one pictured did lack any type of sights. My local GS has new Colt's for $950 so with a good rail the price is about the same.

Also, what about a DDM4 isn't Mil Spec, that is Mil Spec on a Colt?

The barrel for sure. What else? I don't know, which is why i prefer Colt. Thats not to say the rest of the DD isn't mil spec but with Colt i know it is 100%. The Colt will almost certainly better retain value also.
 
The barrel for sure.
DD, Like FN, exceeds Mil Spec and cold hammer forges their bbls. The steel is certified Mil-B-11595E, same as Colt. Other than a FA or Burst setting on the selector DD is just as Mil Spec as Colt. Keep in mind that DD makes the RIS II for the SOPMOD II program.
 
Oh brother. Here's the letter Armalite put out about milspec rifles. It clearly states why all M4s/M16s/AR-15s AREN'T milspec.

Milspec Rifles

Now that this is out of the way, DD is an excellent AR manufacturer. Just look at their torture test video! All of the little aesthetics are 99% of the time user preferences. The OP knows that he wants a DD AR-15, so answer the question instead of playing the "My AR is better than your AR" game!
 
The gun wears somewhat easier, has less bolt bounce and will be softer shooting with a mid-length gas system. also, the mid-length barrel is marginally lighter when you think about it (less barrel above under-handguards profile ahead of gas block).
 
It clearly states why all M4s/M16s/AR-15s AREN'T milspec.
Yes, but it also states:
ArmaLite® does not claim that its rifles are made to the full provisions of MIL-R-63997. All ArmaLite/Eagle Arms rifles, however, are manufactured to the written requirements set forth by MIL-R-63997.
That letter from Armalite is also 11 years old. The AR-15 civilian manufacturing & enthusiast community has also pieced the TDP together from all the bits that have been released. If you make a barrel according to the M4 TDP spec that's 16" instead of 14.5" long it isn't technically Mil-Spec, but it's still made to that standard. When we refer to a civilian AR as being Mil Spec, we just mean it's built & assembled to the TDP, minus legal considerations for the bbl length & fire control group. There are some companies who, despite the information being readily available, deviate from the TDP greatly in order to cut corners & lower costs.
 
Yes, but it also states:

That letter from Armalite is also 11 years old. The AR-15 civilian manufacturing & enthusiast community has also pieced the TDP together from all the bits that have been released. If you make a barrel according to the M4 TDP spec that's 16" instead of 14.5" long it isn't technically Mil-Spec, but it's still made to that standard. When we refer to a civilian AR as being Mil Spec, we just mean it's built & assembled to the TDP, minus legal considerations for the bbl length & fire control group. There are some companies who, despite the information being readily available, deviate from the TDP greatly in order to cut corners & lower costs.
Fair enough. My point was essentially what you got to though: some manufacturers cut corners (**cougholmpicyarmscough**) in the wrong places then use what was said in the letter as an excuse for what they do.

Just because something isn't milspec, doesn't mean it isn't better than milspec. (Yes, believe it or now our military doesn't have THE best rifle out there :D) Daniel Defense isn't milspec, but they are a heck lot better than it!
 
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