Best SHOTGUN EVER!

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Since this thread is going nowhere fast, for four pages now, I may as well go off on a random tangent, too.

It's okay for military, but for civilian use? Nah, especially not for a lefty shooter.
I get that an AK safety is less than ideal for a lefty, but what makes it "okay for military," yet poor for civilian use?
 
I get that an AK safety is less than ideal for a lefty, but what makes it "okay for military," yet poor for civilian use?
because that what he thinks. I happen to think the ak safety is pretty straight forward and easy to use. Not that safeties are rocket science. Also for some the saiga may fit well.
 
Yeah, well, I guess it'd depend, eh? In combat, I'd think I'd be diving for cover first, then have time to take it off safe OR chamber a round, even. Civilian, when a duck flies in, you need to be thumbing the safety off as the gun comes up. You'll miss a lot of birds if you aren't fast with the safety.

Those were my thoughts, anyway. The only experience I can draw on is the civilian hunting end of it. For that, the Saiga safety sux.
 
=allaroundhunter;7698824]"Best shotgun ever"...........not in my book

I think we all have agreed on this many times over in this thread. I have even suggested the OP Subject was a bit sophomoric in nature (IMHO).

Even for home defense, the safety is in a far less than optimal place and its reliability is often questioned..... (Remington 870 gets my nod)

If you have acclimated yourself to the AK, your set with the Saiga--If a nooby to the platform, agreed in that it will take a bit of user adjustment.

It's safe to say that I would only grab a Saiga for anything if it was one of my last options

Even for HD? Last option? I have to admit I have never heard anyone refer to the Saiga-12 as such for HD or tactical situations (for some not first, but last)?

That's why I like these forums though, different strokes for different folks.

-Cheers
 
because that what he thinks. I happen to think the ak safety is pretty straight forward and easy to use. Not that safeties are rocket science. Also for some the saiga may fit well.

Then, they're built like Orangutans. :rolleyes: The Saiga is a pistol gripped assault rifle with a "sporter" stock added. Length of trigger pull, to start off with, will be screwy. I've picked one up, before. Balance is way to the rear. Add one of those drum mags and, well, forget it.
 
I like the 20 gauge a lot. Even totally screwing up my reload I had 18 shots on target in 29 secs, the video before I dropped the mag and nailed the reload and had 18 shots on target in 17 secs. Only reason its not online is I curse VERY loudly during reload when I catch my thumb between the charging handle and receiver cover.. Which is the reason I tried the lefty reload which I'm not very good at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTfdO7XjecM

I have a Saiga 12 that to date has had two jams, both on my trash blasting reloads (promo hulls that don't crimp right). However I only have 5 round mags. And yes you can get grouse with it just fine.

this was the first bird dropped with my S-12.
40600007-1.jpg

Some do complain about saigas being unsporting. This one was particularly vocal.
Unsportingshotgun.jpg
 
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Also for some the saiga may fit well.

For doing what, clearing trenches w/buckshot, from the hip?.....That doesn't really require "skill set", balance or even a mediocre fit.....I'm not gonna argue with you that the Saiga has its uses but they don't require fit and skill set.

Maybe you fellows can hit a few clays (or a feeding goose or perched grouse, lol) but I promise ya, you'll never be top gun at the league shoot, with the rifle wannabee shotgun.

A drum or extended mag isn't gonna help you when these guys are on the wing, 2 shots and if you don't have a hit (forget about it) they're gone. :neener:

If they're not flying, they're not dieing.


Wood duck....Mother Natures fast food delicacy!
woodies-1.jpg
 
I hit flying grouse. And I have limited in an evening using a saiga. I find the pistol grip more comfortable for carrying.

I have side by side and a pile of single shots and pumps. And I'll use them from time to time as well. Saiga works fine as well, just takes some practice to get used to it, its functionally different then a traditional shotgun. Expecting a lifetime of practice with a pump or side by side to just transfer to a saiga is silly, it takes time.

Reminds me of this old carpenter, he hated nail guns. Said he bought one and tried it for a day and found his trusty hammer was just plain faster.. Well duh, he was fumbling the nail gun the whole time because he only just started using it.

Edit: Nice pile of duck. Around where I hunt, most duck are mallards and your only allowed 4 a day I think.
 
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Originally posted by PT92:
Even for HD? Last option?

Not my LAST option, per se. I need to be more thorough haha. It would be one of the last shotgun options that I would consider, but I would grab a Saiga over a double barrel/single shot.

And I have fired AK's on multiple occasions, but I have just never gotten used to the safety. I prefer not to have to change my firing grip to activate the safety on a weapon to be used for defensive purposes.

I kinda went off on a tangent earlier, and for that I apologize.

These "perfect gun" threads get me riled up (unless it's about a Glock, that's understandable ;)) <--Sarcasm
 
There are options that improve the AK safety. Its just a L bracket welded to the safety lever that brings it within reach..

Normally I just flick the safety off when bringing the firearm up from low ready. Many people adjust the safety lever by bending them out slightly, just to make them usable with one finger.

And I agree that there is no perfect gun. Guns are tools, you can force them to do different tasks, sometimes it works fine, othertimes not so much.
 
I love the saiga I don't think its the BEST at much but it does do a lot of things well. I also like the idea of using them out in the field because even with an artificially limited magazine as required by hunting laws you still get to use a "evil assault rifle" while this may piss off some of the fudd's it still advances gun rights.
 
I would have to say the Saiga 12 is pretty much the ultimate shot gun that's relatively easy to get your hands on. Not many people and find/get an AA12.

I do like the KSG but its still a pump and the recoil is nicer on the saiga
 
Hey glockside, it's the ultimate shotgun at what?....Playing mall ninja?

Enlighten us as to how many "ultimates" you see on the podium of professional clay sports or afield, amongst dedicated hunters.
 
I would have to say the Saiga 12 is pretty much the ultimate shot gun that's relatively easy to get your hands on

Easier than getting your hands on a 870, 500 or 1100? I doubt it.

Those hunting with 5 round magazines, do they make a two round one? In many areas, you would be facing some serious issues with 5, 10, 20 or more rounds
 
Just give me a an early Rem model 11






No really. Someone give me one please
 
Had a Saiga. I jammed like a sumbuck. I didn't feel like sending it to pay to have it slicked over, so I sold it and purchased a well used Ithaca 37 DSPS Featherlight from a friend.

Now THAT is a shotgun:) First one I'd pick for every conceivable shotgun application out of the ones I own.

I shalln't be messing around with a Saiga again anytime soon.
 
Yes its not the best at clay games, just like glocks are terrible for cowboy shooting matches.

Its one of the most modern shotguns that is practical for other purposes, and still legal for civilian ownership.

Many of the shotgun shooting matches are changing their setups to screw with saiga shotguns as its felt they are unfair.. So they add slug targets at several stages as the saiga is slow for that. Which if you stop to think of it, when would you swap shell types mid magazine? I doubt military or law enforcement practice swapping shell types in the field.

There are many less practical firearms in the world. Finely engraved firearms serve ZERO practical purpose, but I'd sure like to own one.
 
Many of the shotgun shooting matches are changing their setups to screw with saiga shotguns as its felt they are unfair.. So they add slug targets at several stages as the saiga is slow for that. Which if you stop to think of it, when would you swap shell types mid magazine? I doubt military or law enforcement practice swapping shell types in the field.

A tactical reload is a very viable option and one of main reasons shotguns that can be loaded from the breach or have the magazine topped off on the fly are popular with speed feed stocks. While its very, very unlikely, let's say you are out hunting fowl and are camping overnight. A pack of coyotes or aggressive two-legged animals raid your site. You're pump gun is loaded with appropriate shot to take ducks, not for self defense.

You have enough time to pop off a round or two of fowl shot to scatter them before you thumb in a round or two of double aught.

A more common use might be with police officers exchanging fire with a subject before he barricades himself behind a door. They can switch from buck to a breaching shell on the fly. Or perhaps from non-lethal to lethal if the situation has escalated.

That is a the drawback of detachable magazines, they must be removed to reloaded or topped off. One of the awesome things a tube fed shotgun has going for it is adaptability on the fly.
 
Eh, I've shot a Saiga 12 before, but I realized that in order to get any decent magazine capacity with that thing, you have to have a very large, unwieldy box on the thing. My semi-auto shotgun when I buy it is going to be a gun that has a lot in common with my current pump (a SuperNova): the Benelli M2.
 
I've picked one up, before. Balance is way to the rear.

Is that a way of saying it is front heavy? Because the sporter stocked guns are very front heavy. I think it is important to distinguish whether one is comenting about a sporter stocked gun or a PG converted gun because the balance, ergos, handling, etc are pretty dramatically different IMHO, and I've shot a fair number or rounds through various converted and stock guns. I would not be real interested in owning a own with the intention of keeping the sporter stock.

I doubt military or law enforcement practice swapping shell types in the field.

Really??? I slug change over is shotgun 101 stuff. It is one of the most basic skills sets taught when one learns to run a shotgun. If LEOs are carrying shotguns and not carbines I would certainly hope they are trained in slug change overs and practice them. Having slugs makes the weapon much more versatile and useful. One example of a time it might be used is an active shooter and a distance longer than say 30 yards. We had one here not long ago, guy on his 3rd floor balcony shooting at people passing by, the responding officer had a patrol rifle and used that to subdue the threat, if he only would have had a shotgun it would have been an instance a slug changeover (and I would think a double change over) would have been very appropriate and useful. Another might be an officer working a road block who faces the potential need to fire into a vehicle if it doesn't stop. For an LEO there are lots of times a slug changeover could be useful.

A S12 isn't that bad for slug changeovers. In the real world if I were going to do any slug change over I would likely prefer to a a double slug change over, load two slugs. For that a saiga is arguably as good or better than a lot of tube guns. Get a shot timer and run the drills, no need for conjecture really.

That is a the drawback of detachable magazines, they must be removed to reloaded or topped off. One of the awesome things a tube fed shotgun has going for it is adaptability on the fly.

A mag change is pretty fast. It might take some thinking through in the set up. For example I keep a mag of slugs stocked and in a consistent location. I want a slug or slugs, I simply drop the mag thats in the gun, insert a new one and work the charging handle. For my tube guns I pull the charging handle or work the slide to the rear, "surf out the round that is on the lifter, feed a round through the port and let the charging handle go or work the slide. If I want two slugs I then feed one into the tube. I actually think the mag change is less bobble prone and all around easier. Other guns like Benelli autos are a bit easier than certain other tube guns because of how they operate.

A mag is way easier than trying to keep up with feeding the tube while shooting IMHO.

you have to have a very large, unwieldy box on the thing.

I would say the drums are unwieldy. The 12 round mags a bit much. Ten rounders aren't bad and 8 rounders really aren't IMHO.
 
Eh, I've shot a Saiga 12 before, but I realized that in order to get any decent magazine capacity with that thing, you have to have a very large, unwieldy box on the thing. My semi-auto shotgun when I buy it is going to be a gun that has a lot in common with my current pump (a SuperNova): the Benelli M2.
Do you consider the magazine on the AK-47 large and unwieldy (heck, you can get mags in 20-60 rounds or drums with lager capacities)? Millions across the world apparently don't seem inhibited or constrained at all by the AK Magazine. The Saiga-12 is the same except instead of being chambered for 7.62 it's in .12 gauge. Yet not everyone is comfortable with the AK platform.

-Cheers
 
Had a Saiga. I jammed like a sumbuck. I didn't feel like sending it to pay to have it slicked over, so I sold it and purchased a well used Ithaca 37 DSPS Featherlight from a friend.

Now THAT is a shotgun:) First one I'd pick for every conceivable shotgun application out of the ones I own.

I shalln't be messing around with a Saiga again anytime soon.
Did you determine why it jammed or investigate? Were you using bird-shot or buck/slugs? What gas port settings did you attempt (how many gas ports did the Saiga have)? I am curious.

-Cheers
 
For doing what, clearing trenches w/buckshot, from the hip?.....That doesn't really require "skill set", balance or even a mediocre fit.....I'm not gonna argue with you that the Saiga has its uses but they don't require fit and skill set.

Oh, and here I was thinking that some of the high-ranking 3 gun shooters who run the Saigas actually had skill.

Thanks for straightening that out for me. I guess I'll just go get a Saiga and spray from the hip to win.

Do you consider the magazine on the AK-47 large and unwieldy (heck, you can get mags in 20-60 rounds or drums with lager capacities)? Millions across the world apparently don't seem inhibited or constrained at all by the AK Magazine. The Saiga-12 is the same except instead of being chambered for 7.62 it's in .12 gauge. Yet not everyone is comfortable with the AK platform.

Let's be honest now, the >10 round magazines for the Saigas are a lot larger than a 30 round magazine for a regular AK-pattern gun, and they're also a lot heavier when fully loaded.
 
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