308 win load for whitetail in fairly thick brush

brainwake said:

I am looking into a whitetail deer hunting load for a 308 win. I will be hunting in fairly thick stuff. Lots of oak sprouts and branches. I don't think I will take many shots over 100 yards. But I want to hit the deer nice and hard.

It's actually for my wife. She isn't scared of a little kick. She has been using a 243 win and has had a couple of them get away from her.

I think the brush has caused some deflections and maybe its not quite hitting where she is aiming.

So we are stepping her up to 308. Plus its just a new caliber for me to play with.

Any suggestions as to where to start?

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First off id like to be the first to state that certain bullets or calibers bucking brush is a complete load of hogwash.

However there are some special conciderations that come into play hunting up close.

First of which is selecting a bullet that wont overexpand on a close shot where impact velocities are still quite high.

Hand in hand with this is using a deep penatrating projectile that'll work for less than optimum shot angles and will ensure you a blood trail necessary to finding a deer in the weeds

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http://www.midwayusa.com/product/52...ester-168-grain-ballistic-silvertip-box-of-20

Midway is "out of stock", but it shouldn't be hard to find some (Cabelas, etc.)

The 308 will do near the same damage as the 30-06...

Oh....you're reloading.

Varget or Reloder 15 (either one), CCI BR2 primers

And yes...168's are about ideal for deer, Nosler also offers the 165 grain Ballistic Tip but I prefer the 168's because some of my shots are kinda long and that 3 grains does matter then. They work just as good up close as they do far away.

I have never had a deer do more than stumble a few steps after being hit with one of those bullets.

Midway does have the Nosler bullets in stock...I thought you were looking for loaded ammo.

brainwake said:

Would a 30.06 not perform different in thick brush up close compaired to a 243?

Big heavy slow bullet vrs long thin light bullet?

My father in law uses a 30.06...when he hits them, he destoys a lot of flesh. Seems like my wifes 243 seems to poke little holes with little blood trails.

I was thinking 308 was a good middle ground.

I am no expert, just looking for some specific advise from those that know more than I.

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No

Aside from ruining more meat. Not at all.

A 30/06 with 150-165 g bullets is almost as fast as a 243 shooting 100grainers

Trust me if you're shooting under 100 stay away from anything plastic tipped

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As someone mentioned, any caliber can be deflected and knocked off course but in my experience, the bigger the bullet, the less the chance of deflection. I use 165's in my 308 with RE-15. Might knock down a house if it got in the way. Recoil is stiff but who cares, it'll kill what you hit. 308 is a great round and also highly accurate with smaller bullets for varmint type critters.

Your going about this the wrong way. This spring go clean out shooting lanes. Any bullet that will cut threw brush isn't a good choice for animals. There also isn't anything that will ensure a blood trail.

Make sure of your shoot. Stop shooting into brush. If you're not going to take that advice please get a 45-70 or biger & load it havey & slow. Keep shots under 30 yds.

ETA:
Maybe you should think 12 gauge pumpkin ball.

Think 30-30 loads and bullet styles for the 308.

There are no magic bullets, or calibers.

If the bullet hits a tree limb or stand of brush between you and the deer, you can expect to miss or wound the deer, regardless of caliber.

The further away from the deer the brush contact is, the greater your chances of missing.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot40.htm

rc

I do like the idea of a 12 gauge in this situation, but I hate it when people don't answer the question...

I get what you are asking. There are places here where I feel like something heavier than a 150gr screamer would suit me better. It sounds like you hand load, also.

When I'm in short range areas with my .308, like the rain forests here in WA, I use a 220gr Nosler Partition over 39 gr of WW 748, with Winchester brass. This is a lightly compressed load that averages 2175 fps from my Weatherby. It's important to use WW brass, as it's the most 'roomy' of all the .308 brass [that i've tried, anyways].

"220 is not a good bullet for a .308 - it's too long" people will say.

But that's a bunch of hooey. I've been shooting this load from my 1:12 twist Weatherby for years, and have taken game (twice) at nearly 200 yards with it.

I don't know if it's a 'brush buster' whatever that is, but it's been very effective on all the game I've taken with it, and is my short range choice in .308. It expands well at the lower velocity, and penetrates deeply.

Tom

Here in Florida it is so thick that I don't think I have ever shot anything over 50 yds. I have used my 308 for 15 yrs now and only used 150g Nosler BT's. Most of the time they drop deer in their tracks or worst case run a few yards. As far as destroying meat, it is all about shot placement. Put it thru the ribs like a bowhunter would do. If you shoot thru the shoulder it doesn't matter what you use, one or both shoulders will be destroyed.

Try IMR 4064 with the 150's. Between midrange and max load from the Nosler book and 2.800 oal gives me excellent accuracy and not a bad kick at all. Varget and RL 15 is good too. A great deer and hog load.

Deer Hunting in Brush Country

In a 308 for deer, i would load a 150gr. Sierra with IMR 4895. Then make 3 shooting alleys running in different directions away from you stand, at least a week before opening day. This ends the brush problem. If you want the deer to come to you, buy some musk scent buck lure. I like to put the lure next to the car , so when i shoot the deer, it falls into the trunk.

"I hate when people don't answer the question"

The question was " Any suggestions as to where to start?"

I did answer this by telling him not to go that route. I could have gave 100 loads easy that would bust threw brush but none would be good for deer & who knows where it is going to go after it hits a limb. I gave the best answer for the question asked.

Maybe it would have been better to have told him to swing around really fast so the bullet would go around the brush?

A round ball is less likely to deflect & from a 12 gauge should bust threw most brush & do a lot of damage. It would take a lot of brush to keep it from takeing a deer. I still think it is a bad idea tho.

Read rcmodel's ref to 'box of truth' article. Military found this out years ago (WWI and earlier). Then McNamera decided to change Stoner's 308 replacement for the m1 carbine surplus deer rifle into a 223 (plus other errors). Light weight/ high speed bullets deflect AND shatter when hitting twigs. Clearing out shooting lanes is also a great idea. Deer like roads as much as people.

Any suggestions as to where to start?

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I would start with a 150 gr round nose bullet at about 2400 - 2500 FPS. My Hornady manual lists quite a few powders that would do that for you.

My all time favorite brush gun is the Winchester Mod 94 in 30-30. I have shot many a deer at ranges less than 50 yards. I shoot 150 gr round nose at about 2100 fps. Never put them on a chrony, just taking the data from the manual. In almost all cases, the bullet went clear through the deer and it was a knock down. No tracking needed.

I can't say much about "Brush Buster bullets", because I don't think there are any. It has been long thought though that a heavier bullet may not be deflected as badly as a light bullet. For sure any bullet travelling at close to 3000 fps will likely destruct if hitting a twig.

If your hunting on your OWN LAND. The best answer is clear out some shooting lanes, several different directions from your stand.
I know i have hunted in many areas where i think i should have used a chain saw and baseball bat instead of a rifle. But my old Remington 660 in 308 worked just fine in conjunction with the shooting lanes. For Whitetails it is hard to beat a good 150 gr bullet.
Without the cleared lanes i leaned towards my 45/70. Even then you still have to peek and poke through the brush. All bullets will deflect off things.

To be honest, I have used quite a few different bullets out of my little .308 over the past 12-14 years. In the area I do quite a bit of hunting the below picture shows a portion of the bottom that is fairly open. Most of it is quite a bit thicker, so I understand your reasoning.

(BTW- I took this picture standing over a 200# hog back towards the road through the woods from which I shot from. There are two large 4 wheelers and a small trailer only 75yds back through the woods to give you an idea of the hole I shot through to get the hog we're picking up.)

For the most part I have simply used the standard green boxed Remington CL's in 150gr. It has been plenty accurate grouping around 1.5"@100yds, to do all I have needed it to do. There have only been two deer shot with this particular rifle, but both hit the ground where they stood at ranges less than 75yds. This said, I can't even count the number of hogs of all sizes I have put down with it, even out past 400yds. Most were DRT shots, but there have been a few which soaked up the first shot and required another. I cannot blame the loads for that however. When your in the brush and have 30 or more targets running willy nilly through there, you pick a hole and when black fills the scope you shoot.

Even if your handloading, I would suggest at least giving the Remington factory stuff a try. I picked up several hundred of the bulk 150gr CL's specifically for low cost hog loads several years back. I found it was pretty easy to duplicate the factory load using H-4895. The best thing was, the felt recoil actually seemed less than with the factory load, but the groups and velocity were right on par with them. When the rifle only weighs 6.5# fully loaded and ready to hunt, that little bit of difference is noticeable.

As mentioned a good battery powered saws all, or some limb loppers would be your best bet towards getting a clear shot. You don't need to open up a 10' wide lane, but several which are only a clear 2-3' will go a LONG ways. Then your wife can simply get ahead of her deer as it moves through the thicker stuff and make the shots in the lanes. It also won't give her position away as much either.

I use the hornady 165 interlock BTSP factory ammo. no need for fancy expensive bullets this works for me. To be honest i bought several boxes 8 years ago and havent ran out yet other wise i would load my own. i hunt similar woods in michigans upper no shots over 150yds. As far as the brush goes you have a responsibilty as a hunter to humanely and quickly kill, clear some lanes and make some responsible shots and that .243 will work fine.

I will give you a good some good advice and let you do the math ! 150grn for speed and acaraute. 180 to 220 grn bullets are for power knock down and big holes! I use a 180 grn Hornaday rnsp over 48 grns of winch. 748 comes out at around 2930 fps low recoil and dropes deer in there tracks when hit in the heart or through the front sholders! But you use what you want! Brush has no efect so long as it is not over an inch in dimenter,

A heavier bullet will give you more penatration not more knock down. It is less likely to be deflected but it will still be affected. It will not give biger holes unless it is designed to come apart at the speed you are pushing it.

For brush country I use a Hornaday 180 grain round nose at 308 velocity. You could use a 180 grain 30-30 bullet and drive at those velocities also as stated above. This while saying that the heavy brush shot will be approx. 50 yards or so. Do be sure of your shot before pulling the trigger in heavy brush.

Well I live here in MN so thick brush is the norm. If you want to shoot through thick brush at short yardage use a 54cal black powder! But as far as .308 goes 165gr spbt with IMR4064 load it hot.