What constitutes "very good" handgun skills?

If you're shooting gray squirrels at 20 yards off hand you're shooting pretty darn good, especially if they are bobbing and weaving while you sling lead at them.

If you can keep 10 rounds in a 6" target at 25 yards with a standard handgun you are shooting better than probably 90-95% of the people I see. At the last 3 gun shoot I was at we had 6" falling plates from 5-25 yards, you would be surprised at the number of people that did not hit any of the 25 yard targets. And it was kind of depressing the number of people that fell completely apart after the 10 yard targets. And these were people that weren't even trying to be fast.

I'd call hitting a tree rat at 20 yards very good shooting.

Standing, two-handed at 25 yards, I would think 3-4" should be very realistic.

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Agreed.

My standard answer is that a good, but not excellent, shooter can shoot honest & consistent 3" 5-shot unsupported 25 yard groups. DA revolver shooters ought to be able to do this in single and double action.

This level of accuracy isn't master-level bullseye shooting, but it's far better than you'd typically see at your local range, and it's achievable with diligent practice & instruction.

for hunting you know what good is....not wasting ammo while putting food on the table as needed. so its a balacnce between your ability to get within the distance you can place shots accuratly vs the hunted having their own agenda---survival.

self-defense is not all so much different in the end--your, and those you protect, survival.
however events unfold fast and from many directions....so profeciency would be that you can go from your situational awearness alert to effective shots on target in under 2 seconds.

there is a cover garmet and to get better than profecent--to be really good: the time is under 1.5 second. these are numbers you can work for and in the travel there you will be smooth. practice smooth and deliberate movements. speed will come of its own as smooth is good; smooth is fast.

9mmepiphany said:

Standing, two-handed at 25 yards, I would think 3-4" should be very realistic.

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You've got fairly high standards. Only the upper 20% of the shooters I've seen around these parts could do this with any realistic consistency. And thanks to my old guy eyes and nerves I'm not sure I'm one of them. Actually I'm sure I'm not.

On a good day with bright outdoor lighting where my eyes can iris down and avoid some of the fuzziness from my slight astigmatism I can manage 5 to 6 inches at 25 yards with decent consistency. But that's about it.

Just curious 9mm, what can a Master level bullseye shooter do at 25yds offhand? I'm not very familiar with competitive shooting.

High Master Bullseye shooters are almost magical human beings, averaging 95/100 or better on all targets that they shoot. ONE hand unsupported. The outdoor 50 yard target has a 10 ring that is about three inches in diameter. a perfect score involves 20 shots. It has been done...not by many. At 25 yards, the ten ring is 3.3 inches wide and clean 20 shot Timed fire scores are a regular occurrence.
Pete

Could a Master Bullseye shooter in theory shoot better using two hands or is there an advantage to using one hand once you have become used to it?

is there an advantage to using one hand once you have become used to it?

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I'm no expert on the subject, but I do believe there's an advantage: Fewer contact points between the shooter & the gun means there are fewer opportunities to influence the gun and fewer points to apply consistently from shot to shot.

My question is: If I could shoot that well consistently with such weapons, what kind of skill does that represent? Newb skill? Decent skill? Good skill? Holy crap skill? I don't really have anything to compare my abilities to.

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That is good skill. Nice choice of pistols, BTW.

If you would like to get better doing the tree-rat thing, start doing it with a Daisy pump air pistol. You'll be amazed at how much more efficient you become at sight alignment/sight picture aspects.

What constitutes "very good" handgun skills?

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Being able to operate it in the dark, to hit what you're aimming at out to maybe 25 yds, and to maintain that accuracy shooting no slower than a round every two seconds. And, I have nothing to support these views!

Boy, Mr Borland--we agree on one thing: You're no expert. More points of contact are BETTER for accuracy. This is one of the reasons why rifles shoot so much more accurately, 4 points of contact (length being the other).

hk dan,

mr boreland is correct about handgun accuracy. the only contact points should be the second and third fingers on the front of the grip, the palm-swell on the back of the grip and the first finger on the trigger. that's it.

murf

I've never seen a sweep at my local hunter silhouette league- but I've seen people get close. open sights for a 20 round course of fire from 25-100 yards. It is impressive to see.

I'm what I would call 'fair' and can do about a 5inch group at 25 yards regularly. On a good day I can get em smaller, but not consistently.

This is one of the reasons why rifles shoot so much more accurately, 4 points of contact (length being the other).

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Could be rifles are accurate despite 4 points of contact. The proper hold in any form of rifle shooting is that which gives the best overall result under the given conditions. Minimizing contact with the rifle also minimizes the contacts that need to be applied consistently. As such, "free recoil", where, except for the trigger, the shooter doesn't touch the rifle, is a popular benchrest rifle technique, where accuracy is everything, but would be less useful to the hunter.

I'm not an expert since I don't compete in bullseye, and defer to those who do, but in my own pistol shooting, whether 1- or 2-handed, my thumbs are off the gun, for instance. Otherwise, my thumb(s) can (unknowingly & inconsistently) push laterally on the frame. Even a little push can throw an otherwise good shot. And the effect is magnified when the shooting starts to speed up. My 1-handed technique is precisely as murf described.

9mmepiphany said:

...I assumed he meant the upper limits and not the average ability.

I would think the the top 20% is reasonable, with the top 10% being highly competitive and the top 5% being Master shooters

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Ah, that makes a lot more sense. I feel like I misinterpreted your post when it's taken with the "upper limit" factor of the OP.

Your 20%, 10% and 5% numbers would all appear to be very realistic from the shooters I've seen up this way. It's nice to know that all our cold and rain doesn't wash away the global skill level...

I think this guy qualifies as "holly crap skills"

http://youtu.be/ZuQKr2AkKDU

I reality, hitting a 3 inch target (slow fire) at 25 yards consistently your doing really good. Beyond that, you should probably pick a rifle. You don't need to be a "sniper" with a handgun. Not what handguns were designed for.

Yes in Bullseye we shoot one handed at 50 yards and then bring the same target in to 25 yards.

In a 2700 match, 180 shots are taken at 25 yards. 90 of those are in 5-shot 20 second strings. The other 90 shots at 25 yards are in 5-shot 10 second strings. (the other 90 are shot at 50 yards in 10-shot 10 minute strings)

As a general rule you will find the very strong Masters and High Masters expecting to get all the shots fired in the 5-shot 20 second strings to be 10s and are actually trying to build their X-count. The shots fired in the 5-shot 10 second strings are only really wanted to be all 10s. X-count here is just bonus.

(Just standing there with no time constraints, even Experts would expect to shoot 90/100 shots in the 10-ring at 25 yards.)

The .22 portion of the match is generally found to be the highest scoring for most shooters. Mainly because the trigger pull is light and the recoil is negligible, allowing the target to be more quickly acquired during the Timed and Rapid string shooting. The .45 portion of the match, even shooting soft loads, is considerably more difficult; and the "real" match, the Service Pistol .45, shooting full power, FMJ is generally considered to be the most challenging.

But they all require the same things, good trigger control and a consistent grip.