Handgun Carry in the Old West

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Ahh, Family.

The fellow on the horse with the shotgun "playfully" pointed at his head from behind is mine I'm told... Only gun I can spy.

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I've carried a side arm as lawman and a rancher for over 50 years. I had the typical LEO rig when I was on patrol, and I've got a fine lookin' rig for marryin's and buryin's, but I either had a .22 snubbie in a vest pocket or a S&W model 28 hangin' in a holster in my pickup or in my saddle bags on the ranch.

I grew up around old time cowhands on the ranch, these ol boys rode the range during the open range days in Wyoming in the 1880's and 90's including an uncle who was a friend of Tom Horn. I knew several old timers that knew Tom and said they he was one spooky sumbitch.

Like every other "hot shot" young kid that grew up on a ranch, I tried packin' a pistol on my hip while I worked. I found it getting tangled up in my rope when I needed to catch a critter, gittin' scuffed up and snagged when I was fixin' fence, and filthy when I was pitchin' hay and such.

If a horse pitched a fit, it became a lethal weapon banging against you every time that horse bucked, and you sure din't want to land on it if you come unglued from that pony. Mine was soon relegated to the pickup or saddle bags.
 
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I don't know about cowboys, but my great grandfather ran a hotel in a little mining town near Primero, Colorado that no longer exists. He had a small top break .32. Many of the pictures and documents disappeared after my grandfather's death, so I can't name the town exactly. I'll have to dig around a bit, as I'm pretty sure I have some pictures from the trip he took a few months before he passed. It was kind of neat, as the jail was the only structure left. Also, the gentleman that signed his baptism/christening papers wrote a book about the Slovenian community in Primero... I'll have to see if I can scrounge a copy to see if there is any mention of the family.
 
The saber was considered the primary arm, carried on the weak side. How would a right handed man withdraw a saber carried on his right side?

Now tell me how he does it while mounted on a horse.

Sabers were on the weak side for a reason.
 
How would a right handed man withdraw a saber carried on his right side?

To illustrate your point, at the end of The Outlaw Josey Wales, Capt. "Redlegs" Terrell draws his saber carried on his left side with his left hand. The draw is such that the blade is reversed which is not the best way to fight with a saber.
 
Originally Posted by stevekozak
I am doubting a lot of stuff in this thread. The idea that cowboys surrendered their sidearms to the ranchers to put in a safe sounds suspiciously like some liberal crapola.

After the dangers associated with the frontier years had passed many of the larger ranches and some smaller ones prohibited the carrying of revolvers during round up. This is not only attested to in contemporary writing but also photographs taken at the time as well. Hollywood of course would never stand for this, but the fact was that a six-shooter wasn't (and isn’t) necessary to round up cattle and brand the critters.

The guns in question didn’t necessarily end up in some rancher’s safe, but were simply left behind in the bunkhouse.

That said, some ranches outright prohibited handguns as a condition of employment, and cowboys that didn’t own one were common. Rifles and carbines were another matter.
 
Tom gave a bridle headstall he braided in jail while awaiting execution to my Uncle. It is still in the family.
Tom_Horn.jpg
Tom worked develop an image of deadly gunman to create fear in the minds of the homesteaders. It worked.

He was loyal to his friends and they were loyal to him until the end.
Tom didn't kill Willie Nickells. He was guilty of plenty but not that one.

Tom died of old age in the Sandwich (Hawaiian) Islands, but that's another story.:cool:
 
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The CAS City site has a lot of historical information on most of this stuff as well as prices for guns and ammo in the late 19th Century. The prices seemed cheap until one thinks about the pay wage of that day. A pistol was as much as a months pay with a Winchester rifle a little more. I honestly believe that most ranch worker might of own a saddle gun to handle coyotes, wolves or put down an injured steer or horse. A few might of carried a pistol in a saddle bag or bed roll. The shotgun seems to be used more with stage coaches, law men and farmers.

According to records, Tom Horn was hung on November 20, 1903 and buried in Bolder Colorado.
 
According to records, Tom Horn was hung on November 20, 1903 and buried in Bolder Colorado.

Yup, somebody was hanged in Cheyenne in 1903.
Them Wyoming Stockgrowers had a lot of power back then.:cool:
 
Most handgun holsters of that era were nothing more than soft leather pouches made from the soft belly leather of the steer. For the most part the custom fitted thick leather holsters from Hollywood were exactly that. The fast gun fighter draw was non existent, Even W.E at the OK Corral ( in an alley actually ) put his revolver in his coat pocket for faster access. On the way to the party he put it back in the holster when told the cowboys had been disarmed ( another strike against his using the Buntline that day ).
 
I dont think Calvary holsters were worn cross draw I'm pretty sure they carried strong side butt forward, this had to do with carrying the saber as well

That's exactly right.
It was considered more important for the saber to be wielded by the strong hand.
The pistol was drawn with the weak hand as a back-up to the saber.
The theory being that sabers don't run out of, or waste bullets which cost the army a lot of money back then.
 
All I know is somebody was carrying a lot of old Colts a lot of miles back then.

Too many old ones around now with the muzzle & ejector rod housing worn away from holster wear.

They didn't get that way hanging in the bunk house or stored in the saddle bags I betcha.

rc
 
To illustrate your point, at the end of The Outlaw Josey Wales, Capt. "Redlegs" Terrell draws his saber carried on his left side with his left hand. The draw is such that the blade is reversed which is not the best way to fight with a saber.

I could be wrong but, I think in the movie, he drew with the wrong hand because his other arm was shot?
Josey was following the blood trail on the building walls.
 
All I know is somebody was carrying a lot of old Colts a lot of miles back then.

Too many old ones around now with the muzzle & ejector rod housing worn away from holster wear.

They didn't get that way hanging in the bunk house or stored in the saddle bags I betcha.



Yup, back in 1961, I got one of them Ruger single six's that has the aluminum ejector rod shroud on it. All the blue is wore off the side of the barrel and some of the metal is wore off of that shroud.

I din't know nuthin' about only carryin 5 rounds and an empty under the hammer back then. I din't get it modified and I still pack it when I'm huntin' or ridin' the pastures on an ATV and it's still loaded with six up today.
 
Howdy

The drop loop holsters made famous in Hollywood were often called Buscadero rigs. Absolutely not good for riding a horse, they would flap around like crazy. Also not so good for sitting in a chair, very uncomfortable. About the only thing they are good for is fast draw in the movies. Buscadero rigs would not have been worn in the Old West.

http://www.alfonsosgunleather.com/Pages/western2.htm

Large frame S&W revolvers were not common on the frontier. S&W did not make any large frame 44 or 45 caliber revolvers until 1870. Prior to that everything made by S&W were little Tip Up 22 or 32 caliber revolvers like these. They were designed to be slipped into a pocket, not worn in a holster. There were many thousands or these made. The large one is a Model 1 1/2, 2nd Issue made in 1873 and chambered for 32 Rimfire. There were over 100,000 of this model made. The little is a Model No. 1, 3rd Issue made in 1870 and chambered for what we would call today 22 Short. There were over 131,000 of this model made. There were also several other Tip Up models made, they were produced in great numbers, and they found their way into pockets everywhere, both East and West.

ModelsNumberOneThirdIssueandNumberOneandOneHalfNewModel01.jpg

S&W produced their first large frame revolver in 1870. The Rollin White patent, which Smith controlled was about to expire. The White patent made it illegal for anybody else to produce a revolver with chambers bored out for cartridges. So when the White patent was about to expire, and everybody and their brother was about to enter the cartridge revolver market, S&W unveiled a radically different revolver, a large frame, Top Break, 44 caliber revolver. The barrel was latched at the top, hence the name Top Break. The barrel pivoted down for loading and all empty cartridges were automatically ejected. It fired a round that later came to be known as the 44 S&W American round and the model eventually became known as the American model. There were slightly more than 28,000 Americans produced, so they were nowhere near as popular as the little Tip Ups had been. The Russian Model, produced from 1871 until 1878 were produced in great numbers, over 150,000 were made, but as has been stated, most of them were sold to foreign governments. The Schofield Model was produced from 1875 until 1877. The first 3035 were produced on contract for the Army. There were 5964 of the 2nd Model produced. By 1878 the Army had surplussed them all out, but there were never very many made in the first place, so they would not have been common in the Old West either.

These models were followed by the New Model Number Three and the 44 Double Action. All shared the basic #3 frame size. Remember, all Schofields are #3s, but not all #3s are Schofields. Here is a web page that describes the five different models that were built on the #3 size frame, and how to tell them apart.

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/Mod3-info.html

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Smith and Wesson did not start producing Top Break pocket pistols until 1876, starting with a 38 caliber, 5 shot, spur trigger model. This 38 Single Action, 2nd Model, five shot, Top Break pocket pistol was made in 1877. There were over 108,000 of them made.

38SA2ndModel02.jpg


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At the end of the Civil War there were many thousand Cap & Ball revolvers that the Army surplussed out. They were very cheap and many adventurers heading for the Old West bought them. Colt did offer conversion models of their C&B revolvers, but never made very many. They did not bring out the SAA until 1873, three years after the White patent had expired. So until 1872 or so, if somebody wanted a large frame revolver, it was probably going to be a surplus 44 or 36 caliber C&B. Even after 1873, the SAA was very pricy, going for about $12. A dollar a day was considered good pay for a cowboy in those days.


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Back to holsters. Most holsters available at the time were 'high riding' holsters. Not the silly drop loop Hollywood holsters. I'm no horseman, but I don't think a short barreled high riding holster would be much of a problem for mounted man.

I had this rig made up when I first started shooting Cowboy about ten years ago. It is a high riding rig in the Duke style. Not authentic to the Old West, the Duke style was first made for John Wayne by Tom Threepersons in the 1930s. But it is a high riding rig similar to many that were being made at the tail end of the 19th Century. Of course no real cowboy would have been able to get his hands on enough money to own two pistols.

DukeRig.jpg


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Regarding open carry in the Old West, the Shootout at the OK Corral in Tombstone in 1881 was a direct result of the city ordinance forbidding the carrying of weapons in town. Firearms were supposed to be surrendered upon coming to town. Marshal Virgil Earp decided to enforce the ordinance when he found out that the McLaurys and the Clantons were packing and they were being belligerent. Being townsmen, the Earps did not carry their pistols in holsters, they typically carried them in the waistband of their trousers. Holiday had a pistol in a holster but it was hidden by his coat. Wyatt testified at the trial that he was carrying his pistol in his coat pocket.
 
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Personally i've carried a full size 1911 strong side while on a horse for several miles. the reason i don't carry crossdraw is because its uncomfortable when you lean forward.
While i've heard of people carrying their gun in their saddlebags. This is simply stupid. If you fall off and your horse spooks. you no longer have a gun. So i don't think many did that back in the day.
 
This was posted today on another forum by a friend of mine down in Texas. He spent a life time a straddle of a horse as have I.

It was an early February morning an I was lining out a short string of
knot-headed bronc mules for a little schooling on the parade grounds.

Wells, we make a pretty good circle and arrive back at the barn about noonish.
It was a drizzling rain and a lit'l on the muddy side of things. As I step down to the ground,
my rubber pack boot gets all jammed up and hung in the stirrup. I make a little short hop toward my saddle pony.
Which by the way is kinda a little on the bronc side his own-self, well now he buggers and jerks yours truly down.

We headed toward open corral gate and open range...Caught by the left foot and my ol head boppin' on the ground
at a clip that would have left a Derby winner eatin dust.

Wells, I'm tryin to pull my sixgun for to put one in this here run-away's boiler room. Couldn't get to my revolver,
my gunbelt was up under my arm pits, my gun was digging into my shoulder blade...I was in one hell of a fix.

Things was look purty grim for this boy. All that was left to do was udder a word or two to my Maker and let fate take it's course.
I sez,"Lord this sure's a rough way to die!"

Wells, wouldn't know it about that time, that ol pony planted a hind foot right in my middle and I popped loose jest like a cork from a bottle!

That string of mules was a followin along right close, didn't but two or three of 'em run over me.

Now this ain't been too many years ago...I's wasn't no young man by any means.

Gone to usin belt keeps after that with my gunbelt.


I have been in the same situation as he describes. If you survive, you can always catch your horse and git your gun back. If you fall off of the horse, that gun ain't gonna do you no good no how.
 
Personally i've carried a full size 1911 strong side while on a horse for several miles. the reason i don't carry crossdraw is because its uncomfortable when you lean forward.

While i've heard of people carrying their gun in their saddlebags. This is simply stupid. If you fall off and your horse spooks. you no longer have a gun. So i don't think many did that back in the day.
Horses are stupid -- at least as stupid as your average teenager, and just about as likely to do the wrong thing at the right time. When I think of having my gun in my saddlebag, I'm reminded of a sign at a local cafe, "If you value your hat and coat -- wear 'em." :D

I've ridden many a mile with a gun on my hip. I like a holster that "swallows" the gun -- no exposed trigger guard or more than the tip of the hammer showing. And I wear it on a trouser belt, not a separate gunbelt. That way, the gun stays put, no matter what.

My initiation as a cowboy was in the Great Screw Worm Epidemic of '56. My dad had just retired from the oil business, bought 3500 acres in the Ozarks, and trucked in a herd of Bramah-Angus cross cattle from a ranch in Oklahoma that was selling out because of drought.

That fall, every single scratch on a cow got screw worms. I spent two months riding up and down hollows, dodging brush, chousing out, roping, throwing and doctoring cattle.
 
This is a great thread. I'm learning some interesting stuff!

Thanks. Back to it, gentlemen!
 
All this discussion of whether or not cowboys carried six-guns or not doesn't have a cut & dried answer.

Pre & Post civil war through the Indian wars eras, a person would be foolish to go about unarmed.

By the late 1800's, the west was largely settled, large ranches were the norm, and your "cowboys" chances of getting attacked by Indians or outlaws on the back 10,000 of the ranch was pretty slim.

I think it can be assumed cowboys carried weapons pretty regularly at that one point in time.
And it was probably in a pouch or slim jim holster with a huge folded loop.
Or a cut down civil war cross-draw flap holster.
Strung on a folded pig skin money-belt, so the gun could be slid around out of the way when riding or roping.

The belt gave safe storage for coins & cash, and proof of ownership papers necessary on a cattle drive.

Photos of most of this stuff can be seen in John Bianchi's book, Blue Steel & Gunleather.
Bianchi at one time owned the largest collection of vintage gun leather in existence, and knew exactly what he was talking about.

And I still contend all those old Colts didn't get one side of the muzzle and the ejector rod on the other side worn flat by hanging on a nail in the bunkhouse.

rc
 
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