.45 ACP versus .223; 10 feet away

DefiantDad · Jun 10, 2012

.45 ACP versus .223 (comparing FMJ and JHP).

Which one would you rely on for stopping an imminent threat coming around the corner / in your doorway (e.g., bad guy with shotgun or full-auto, etc).

For .45 ACP assume you can use either handgun (e.g., 1911, Glock 36, etc.) or pistol ammo carbine in .45 ACP.

For .223 assume something like an AR but you can also opt for a pistol/SBR chambered in .223.

Probably you have the element of surprise and the chance to put ONE SHOT into the bad guy.

cheeze · Jun 10, 2012

I'll take the .45 any day. 230 grains going 875 fps is going to cause major damage. Would you rather get hit by a golf ball going 60 mph or a bowling ball going 20 mph? If you hit something on the assailant's body, you've likely stopped the threat. The .45 will most likely transfer 100% of it's energy upon impact, where the 223 may pass through and lose energy elsewhere, making it less effective. Also, at 10 feet, I would rather not have a rifle barrel hanging out there to be swinging around and trying to put on target in a hurry. .223 means rifle in most every case. .45 means pistol in most every case. If you're looking for home defense options, the .45 takes the cake overwhelmingly IMO.

DefiantDad · Jun 10, 2012

Sounds good

FuzzyBunny · Jun 10, 2012

It all depends on **** placement.

At home the .45 is a lot easier to retain than a long gun.

Either way be sure your homeowners covers mess cleanup!

As far as one imminent threat never plan on that until the police clear the property and home. All plans fail at first contact with the enemy. Get a few durn good flash lights and extra .45 mags too. When I need my light I plan for it to fail!

Call your attorney right before or during the 911 call.

I said way more than the OP ask, Sorry

I would go with a full size .45 myself

shootniron · Jun 10, 2012

Even though I am a huge fan of the .45acp for a handgun round...at 10ft, I will take the .223 tac round fired from a rifle.

BADUNAME37 · Jun 10, 2012

mavracer · Jun 10, 2012

I want a carbine and for your scenario caliber really doesn't matter. At 10feet imminent danger requires a CNS hit for a reliable stop. Now in all honesty I don't see any upside to having a carbine in 45acp over an M4gery.

mljdeckard · Jun 10, 2012

Rifle every time. Even if the .45 was more likely to drop all of its energy into the target, it won't knock them down.

If you want a real-world demonstration of the .45's stopping power, set a 50 lb bag of cement on a oil drum. shoot it a few times. That is what it will do to a human target.

357 Terms · Jun 10, 2012

10 feet, 20 feet, 30....223 every time.

Its a rifle! much more effective.

ichiban · Jun 10, 2012

I'd go with the .45acp in a handgun for the tactical consideration that Cheese mentioned. Ten feet is pretty darned close.

CDW4ME · Jun 10, 2012

Line up five water filled gallon jugs of water for each, shoot whatever 45 acp you want, in the .223 use a Barnes TSX, Federal Fusion 62 gr. or Nosler 60 gr. Partition, then decide.

The 45 HP will expand to a much larger recovered diameter, (230 gr. Ranger T very impressive) while the .223 may expand to .41 Partition - .46 Barnes.

However, the impact seen on the jugs will be different; the 45 may (will) split the first jug, but a .223 Nosler Partition 60 gr. at 2,800 fps + can (did) rip it into two seperate pieces.

You are comparing KE levels of maybe 400# vs 1,000+#

The .223 would cause more damage and be more likely to immediately stop the threat (IMO).

hentown · Jun 10, 2012

Why should I assume that I'm only getting one shot? Am I going to be shooting a Lorcin or Hi-Point??

Walkalong · Jun 10, 2012

Ten feet away, in a hallway?

No brainer for me, .45 ACP. I won't loose as much hearing, and at 10 feet away, either one center of mass will do the trick. You can always shoot them again if needed.

Yes, the .223 is more gun, no one will deny that.

Bobson · Jun 10, 2012

I have the element of surprise and time enough for one [aimed] shot at 10 feet? If I was shooting paper with these same elements, I'd aim at the head portion of the target. No reason to pretend I'd do different if it were an armed intruder in my home. Therefore it makes no difference what I'd be armed with; 9mm to a 12 gauge filled with buckshot, and everything in between.

Shear_stress · Jun 10, 2012

I'll take the .45 any day. 230 grains going 875 fps is going to cause major damage. Would you rather get hit by a golf ball going 60 mph or a bowling ball going 20 mph? If you hit something on the assailant's body, you've likely stopped the threat. The .45 will most likely transfer 100% of it's energy upon impact, where the 223 may pass through and lose energy elsewhere, making it less effective.

I'm not sure if you are being serious. Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles. The 45 will poke a hole. The .223 will poke a hole, tumble and possibly break apart at the cannelure. There is absolutely no doubt that the .223 will do much, much more damage.

The question is really not about the effectiveness of the round, but the ease of use around the house.

shinyroks · Jun 10, 2012

I have been debating this with myself (me joined in occasionally). I came to the conclusion that since I:

a) Have no need for concealment within my own home
b) Am more likely to put a second round on target
c) Have a folding stock on my mini (nullifies storage woes)
d) JIC, i have 30 rnds as opposed to 8-10
5) I load 55gr v-max, reducing (not eliminating) pass-through

I keep a Mini-14 near the bed. It is also much easier to point (IMHO) the rifle in close quarters or the dark than it is to aim the handgun. And it gives a much more satisfying racking sound... It's as much a mind game as anything else.

Inebriated · Jun 10, 2012

.45 handgun... becuase if they're at 10 feet, they're probably closing the gap... the handgun goes anywhere my hand goes... not so for the rifle.

Though in general, if there's a choice, take the rifle, and don't let the person within 30 feet.

rcmodel · Jun 10, 2012

For a pretty sure stop?
.223 hands down!

rc

TimboKhan · Jun 10, 2012

Tactically speaking, your weapon should be going where your eyes are going, regardless of whether it be rifle, pistol or shotgun.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Loosedhorse · Jun 10, 2012

.45 200 gr HP:

.223 75 gr HP:

.45 230 gr HP:

.223 62 gr SP:

Source: http://www.hornadyle.com/products/index.html

DefiantDad · Jun 10, 2012

OK great; thanks for all the replies. Your replies confirm what I was wondering about, thus posing this question.

By the way, the assumption that you are getting ONE SHOT is because if you miss on the first try, you are probably going to get 00 buckshot or a full mag unloaded into you. You can shoot a second time, but it would be "irrelevant" in that you needed that first shot to take out the imminent threat. (e.g., that bad guy already killed everyone next door and/or all your friends/family so far that he/she has come across; in any case, the scenario assumes you are 100% certain of the clear and present danger).

I chose .45 ACP versus .223 because 9mm versus .223 is a no brainer (no pun intended!) nor is .45 ACP versus .308

I guess the additional factor of barrel length (maneuverability) complicated this question a bit more than I expected. It's definitely an advantage if the handgun can be positioned faster and easier than a rifle (let's use SBR in .223 as the example in this case) but as others pointed out, it may be more accurate target acquisition with the rifle (even in SBR). And yes, we would likely be aiming for a head shot.

By the way, there's nothing to stop a bad guy from buying body armor (did that Norway killer wear a vest? I forget). Will .223 punch through armor/helmet? I think I read somewhere that, at least in FMJ, the 5.56 NATO was designed to punch through helmets (not sure if .223 will fall below the threshold?). I assume .45 will NOT penetrate armor?

stuball · Jun 10, 2012

12 ga pump with 18 inch barrel and pistol grip. Load would be buck shot. Buck shot little bigger pattern area that can hit said target than one .22 cal or .45 cal bullet.

DefiantDad · Jun 10, 2012

Thanks but let's keep it to .45 and .223; also I'd rather have my round CHAMBERED already than to rack it so that the bad guy can hear it. (Let's assume nobody can hear nothing anymore in this scenario after all the loud noises going on

rcmodel · Jun 10, 2012

And yes, we would likely be aiming for a head shot.

Oh, don't do that.

Heads never hold still, even when the body is.
Way too easy to miss a bobbing weaving head.
And a head shot miss is a clean miss.

Aim Center Mass, and even a miss will be a body hit of some kind.

Yes, a .223 will easily penetrate most body armor a BG is likely to be wearing.

Yes, a handgun can be positioned faster and easier.
But a BG can also take one away from you much easier then a long arm with the stock against your body to prevent twisting it out of your hand, or slapping it away..

rc

cheeze · Jun 10, 2012

My original thoughts were that I only get one shot, it may be a panic shot, and it might not be placed well due to darkness, adrenaline, whatever circumstances, and there are 10 feet between us and closing. In that case, even though the .223 is more gun, I'll still take the .45. If I hit him in the foot, which is more likely to cause damage, especially felt/percived damage? Also, when the gap closes and the attacker is on me, which am I still going to be able to shoot him with? A lot depends on what kind of bullet is in each, as shown in the pictures above. I didn't even know that there were bullets for the .223 that would slow down that fast upon impact. Still, at 10 feet, the .45 is my pick. 15 yards plus, give me the rifle.

.45 ACP versus .223; 10 feet away

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