any people of color?

I wouldn't carry for fear of hate crimes, but crime in general. Doesn't matter if the person attacking you is racist; he's still attacking you.

It's funny you mention having to prove you're "one of the good ones". One of the moderators made the same comment, and it was about background checks in general. Having to go on trial every time you buy a weapon.

I hadn't thought about it before, but you are right, at least where I go. Most of the people that shoot at the range I go to are white or hispanic. But I never see the white person or the black person there. I see a shooter. Maybe its just because I'm part of the younger generation and grew up in a very plaid town, but color isn't something I notice except as a physical descriptor.

In personal circles you just have to deal with it.

Just as you have the freedom to dress that way and look that way by choice, they have the freedom to judge you based on the way you choose to present yourself. You have every ability to dress and present yourself in a manner that would blend in with everyone, just as you have the right and freedom to adhere to sihk tradition and dress.
Your choice to appear in a way that is highly different from the society you live in brings you attention.
That attention is going to get you different treatment.
If you had typical western style dress and appearance the average person would probably not be able to tell you from the many shades of Latin American descendants in the USA.

There is laws to limit discrimination in the workplace, in housing, etc However in your personal life is not one of them.
Your choices have an impact on your life, and there may be nothing wrong with them but they still have an impact.

Any of us that chose to dress or look differently and walk around in society would be treated suspiciously by people that didn't know what it meant.
Whether it has to do with religion or not.
Hare Krishnas with shaved heads and in orange would be out of place and likey get a similar treatment.
Just as the teenager that chooses to spike thier hair in giant spikes and dye it some odd color will also get people noticing they have a look out of place and so treat them more suspiciously.


It is human nature. I also think it has nothing to do with your race, and is your dress gaining the attention. It may cause questions of race or enthnicity after that initial attention.
Choosing to set yourself apart by presenting yourself in a very different and foreign way as an expression or requirement of your religious beliefs does indeed set you apart from others somewhat.

^^^ Amen brother

I guess I am naive. I would have thought that predjudice against Iranian-Americans would be down to near zero in the minds of enlightened people...but of course we're not talking about enlightened people here are we?

Enlightened people understand that Iran is a very modern place, with a very modern population. Just so happens the current government is a little wonky from the perspective of western political thinking.

But hate crimes are not committed by enlightened people.

Not being in your shoes it is hard for me to offer advice but the post above is correct...just about everybody gets treated like crap at gun shows, gun shops, and ranges...at one point or another. I've been treated like a moron at a local gun shop where I've spent money...bought guns...still you get the wrong guy, he treats you like a moron.

I would also agree with the posts above warning against preparing for specific types of threats. Way more random violence or crime of opportunity than hate crimes. Being prepared for just the one may lead you to be unprepared for the other. Iranian or otherwise, your biggest threat will probably be, statistically, some sort of psychotic, clinically mentally ill homeless person, self-medicating with crack...or some such thing...rather than the type of crazy person that's been in the news so much lately.

We get a lot of that even though we left NY 20 yrs ago, a guy in a new Buick chased 4 of us, 2 were career marines, coming back from a gun show trying to run us off the road. I put the window down and asked what his problem was, and he saw NY plates on my friends car. He was ranting how we screwed up his state. We pulled off the road and he cut in front so as to block us from leaving, that's when I saw him going into the console, he was already on the phone so I had to assume it was for a weapon. But no one reached for a gun in our car, everyone is well trained, if a gun would have risen he would have got the worse of it. As we tried to get on our way, 'going around him", he started chasing us again, coming up to the bumper like he was going to ram us, finally a cop who was off duty, pulled along side with his wife, he had seen everything, but didn't want to get involved because of his pregnant wife. But he saw enough, he said stay here and pulled up and cut the guy off, and said, 'sir have you been drinking today', and do you have a weapon in the vehicle. The guy said no, that's when he pulled him out on the ground, and waved us on, he said go home I got this.

So it could be as simple as your accent, or where you lived before.I have have had this happen at gun shows before where the guy asked me why I wasn't buying the gun I had looked at. I said the price was too high, Immediately he started screaming about NY again. You New yorkers think you know everything, you want it for free, I paid more than that, bla bla, once he started cursing, that was it. I called him a few choice names and asked him to step outside if he felt that strongly about where I came from, or give me his laptop and I will show him the MSRP of the gun and he was charging 20%-30% over MSRP," hey he asked me to show him the price", sometimes big mouths have small testicles, I won't be cursed at, by some big mouth bully, dressed in camouflage from head to toe, who hawks his wares like a carnival barker. So there are all kinds of prejudice out there, some is visible and some not. It's amazing how fast he shut up.

Usually when you confront these types they go away, and very rarely do they stand up man to man with you, they travel in packs. I may be older now, but doesn't mean I am going to take any more insults because of my age.

I regret that anyone feels out of place, but to some degree, this is a human condition, and not the exclusive defect on the part of white american guys. People are suspicious of those that are different from the norm. I would suggest that it is not as much about skin color but overall apperance in most cases. As a white American, I have felt very unwelcome in places around the world, and in the U.S. as well.
If you insist on calling attention to yourself with tatoos, piercing, multi colored hair, unusuall forms of dress or whatever, don't be surprized when you get attention, or ignored by people who just don't want to deal with you. You can stand out, or you can fit in, take your choice. You have the right to look like, and be anything you want, but you do not have the right to expect everyone else respect you choices.
Dilbo, I would sugest that you may have to prove to some people that you are much like them. It may not be fair, it just is. The more of a chip you carry on your shoulder because they don't fall all over themselves trying to make the "middle Eastern looking guy with the beard" feel welcome, the harder it is going to be for you to become accepted no matter where you go.
Just my two cents, Goog Luck.

As noted before, since 911 people are generally wary. In some respects for their own protection, and in others pure racism. Some FFL's may think that you could be a sleeper agent, or something similar and may not want to end up in trouble. But in any case in any society may it be in Asia, Germany, Russia, USA and any other place there will always be racism in some form, from ignoring to genocide.

there are gun snobs as well, who don't want to talk to people if they feel they are "stupid"

have you tried joining a gun club, NRA?

When asked to leave, i would talk to the range people and ask them if they are ejecting you from the range based on you religion/looks/race and that you are a law abiding American just like he is, and that you have no intent to do harm, just protect your self, and loved ones just like anyone else here.

but people are generally stupid creatures that lash out at things that are different. I am sorry for you, you are welcome at my range.

My best friend is a giant Russian fella with a very deep accent. We often shoot together and i always find it it amusing how some at the gun range and gun shows seem to have no idea what to make of him. Many seem to still hold stereotypical views of Russians as being cold, humorless commies. At first impression i think his size and accent makes them think of Draco from Rocky but his jovial nature quickly seems to alter perceptions.

Being open and willing to engage others i think is the best way to help break down stereotypes. No, one shouldn't have to but its reality of the world.

I feel any lawful, well-intentioned gun owner (regardless of creed, race, gender or ethnicity) should be a welcomed addition to our ranks. We need to grow our numbers in order to ensure our Second Amendment rights survive for generations to come. Snobbery does nothing for our cause as gun/shooting enthusiasts. As a white male I realize that there will come a day in the not so distant future where we are no longer the majority and it will take people of other backgrounds to help ensure our right to keep and bear arms remains uninfringed. If people from minority backgrounds become gun owners in masses, then the left/Democrats will have to think twice about what their traditional voting base wants come election time. Discouraging anyone from owning a firearm based soley off of prejudice only plays into the hands of our enemies.

Are there any people of color on here, who carry for fear of hate crimes?

Click to expand...

I'm Black.

I bought my AR15 in the '90s when I got death threats from the neo-Nazi National Alliance, with whom, the temple mass murderer apparently had some contact. It seems they don't like people being told about Nazis' propensity for sex with pre-pubescent boys.

I carry a handgun for more generic self-defense reasons.

The truth is that White supremacists (and everyone of that ilk, including the New Black Panther Party) are simply cowards. They're full of big talk and impotent threats, but if they think you can defend yourself, they wet their panties at the thought of an encounter.

That's why they almost always go after people they expect to be unarmed, like the Ethopian they beat to death the baseball bats, or the women working in a kitchen in their most recent act of cowardice.

They want to frighten and harm the defenseless. They don't want to get hurt themselves.

I find that I'm more likely to hear racist comments or jokes in gun shops than any other place I visit.

Click to expand...

I've been the subject of more racial slurs from White ANTI-gunners than just about anyone else apart from self-identified White supremacists. If you're Black and want a racial epithet hurled at you, just refuse to endorse repressive gun controls when a White "liberal" anti-gunner ORDERS you to. A lack of servile OBEDIENCE on your part will send them into an insensate rage.

A few years ago, I was in a Lakewood, Ohio McDonald's. An elderly cleaner started hassling me about my NRA ballcap, and telling me that the NRA should be "banned".

When I replied that the last time organizations started getting "banned", we somehow misplaced 6,000,000 Jews, he told me that he "wasn't sure that was such a bad thing".

Gun banners aren't afraid of guns. They're afraid of Blacks, Hispanics, Jews or anyone else different from them with guns.

The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism.

Scratch a gun banner, find a Klansman.

When I replied that the last time organizations started getting "banned", we somehow misplaced 6,000,000 Jews, he told me that he "wasn't sure that was such a bad thing".

Click to expand...

Wow. Just wow.

Dilbo, I would sugest that you may have to prove to some people that you are much like them. It may not be fair, it just is. The more of a chip you carry on your shoulder because they don't fall all over themselves trying to make the "middle Eastern looking guy with the beard" feel welcome, the harder it is going to be for you to become accepted no matter where you go.

Click to expand...

I find thinking like this utterly small minded because it simply rolls the responsibility of keeping an open mind back onto the person who's being discriminated against. What this essentially says is "Well, if you were the way I want you to be I wouldn't discriminate against you, now would I?"
I consider it a mark of an open mind to be able to deal with people who are different. To me the greatest crime is rolling "responsibility" back onto the victim here. Along the lines of "Shouldn't have worn that short dress, huh?" or "Well, if you just didn't come into the bad part of town I wouldn't have to steal your car."
There is no excuse for stealing cars, assaulting people or discrimination. Nobody is holding a gun to the random gun show bully's head and says "You have to treat customers that aren't like you shabbily." Nobody is threatening club members with expulsion unless they "make sure those brown people are closely watched." It is a choice on their end. Bigotry is a choice, and it's unfair to expect others to avoid your (in the vernacular, not like ... you) bigotry.

Now, I'm no specifically saying you are a bigot, but the argument you're fielding is very, very slippery and I would caution you to embrace it very far.

Wow. Just wow.

Click to expand...

To me it says all that ever needs to be said about anti-gunners.

My grandmother was in Chicago for the 1919 race riots (instigated in part by later Mayor Richard J. Daley, father of recent 20+ year Mayor Richard M. Daley). The Chicago PD literally REFUSED to intervene to stop attacks on the Black community.

Those riots were just about the only ones in which there was rough parity in casualties between Whites and Blacks. Why? The just returned Black doughboys raided the National Guard armories and equipped themselves with M1903s and M1917s.

I might just be unlucky but I have heard more racist jokes in gun shops when "just us white guys" are in there than anywhere else. Even at the shop where me and my two shooting buddies (both decidedly un-white) would get excellent, respectful service it seemed that whenever I went in alone it was minor league racist hour or something. I never did tell those other guys, my buddies, it seemed just weird to bring up.

It's just stupid. I spent too much time in the army to buy into any of the "my skin is prettier than yours, therefor I am a better human being" garbage. I hate racism more than just about anything.

Oh, and Nushif, I completely agree with your comment. I felt the same way but wasn't feeling smart enough to address it the way you have. Good post.

To me it says all that ever needs to be said about anti-gunners.

Click to expand...

Careful. Calling *all* antis anti-Semitic because of one anecdote isn't particularly err ... intellectually honest. We always rush to defend ourselves from tactics like that when one of our guys drops a real bomb, but we're not going to give them credit?

Again, not trying to play the advocate here, but if we want to make a good argument we have to argue fair.

Nushif,

The problem is you can’t force people to do or feel as you wish; you can only control your own actions. A suggestion to make one’s appearance better fit in is not a bad suggestion. It may not be the right decision for the op, but it is a valid suggestion. I can look at the world as an idealist and raise cain because it’s not the way it should be or as a realist and make some adjustments from time to time that I would rather not, but knowing it will just make life easier. That doesn’t mean I won’t try to change things, but sometimes it’s just better to bite my tongue and move on.

BTW, I'm with you 100% on your post 43.

When I was young, dumb, and........well anyway, I worked at a corrugated box plant. In any plant there is always a pretty good diversity and there was this on guy I worked with who often made racist slurs or jokes when no black people were around. It really puzzled me because he always got along and even palled around with most of the black people who worked with us. So one day I finally asked him how he could be so racist but get along with all of the black people we worked with.

His response really opened my eyes. "Well I know them", he said. Racism usually boil down to fear of the unknown. Some people judge others based purely on how they look, whether it's skin color, how they dress, how they talk, etc., before they actually get to know that person.

I still say you should find a good private club, join, and leave the fearful at the public ranges.

Shawn

Being the "average white guy" I cannot imagine what is like to be treated different due to race. However, and I am not saying this is right by any stretch, I do know what is like to treat people different because of race. The most effective way to be safe is to profile. Again, it is not right but it is effective, just ask the Israelis. There is a difference however in profiling and being a jerk to people.

I was born and raised in North Carolina I am Iranian-American, sport a long beard, and am no more a terrorist than any random Sikh.

Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but the bolded part of your initital post to me, states that you are an American (period). As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as an Iranian-American, and African American, a Mexican American, etc.... That is my opinion, you are either an American or you are not.

If you are born in another Country and move to the U.S.A. and become an American citizen (in accordance with the law), then to me you are an American.

Back to the original question, I am a white male, married for 19 years to my wife, have a family, and I am an American and yes, I do to carry for fear of hate crimes as well as all other types of crimes.

The Dove

I haven't heard much in the way of racist jokes or remarks at gun stores, though I sure heard more than my share of them on construction sites as a young man. One thing I've noticed in the last 20 years or so is the increasing racial mix of people at gun shows, at least in Texas. It used to be you'd see some Hispanics, possibly a few orientals, but other than that it was pretty much a whole lot of white faces. The last few shows I went to were much more mixed, with pretty much all races represented, both customers and vendors. Things are looking up, and IMO we gun enthusiasts should stand together.

Sorry to hear of your experience and that you had to go through it. keep plugging along, and always remember that if someone treats you poorly based on your race etc, it is they that are at fault and are losing out.

I wonder if your lacation in the south has to do with the attitude some also??

Click to expand...

Well as another person who grew up in NC, i'll say that on top of what most might think of, there is also some amount of low level animosity toward anyone perceived as "Not from around here", having to do with race only because in the minds of those with this bias, a person neither white nor black is by default "foreign".

not sure how to explain or summarize it properly, but at least where I grew up (Reseach triangle) there was an animosity by a noticable number of the "Native North Carolinians" toward anyone who came from outside the region for purposes of taking a job. hell Durham was the furthest north I've ever lived and I got beatup and called a "yankee" in grade school a few times because I spoke with an accent unfamiliar to most of my classmates (even now, when i'm relaxed I speak with a North MS, West Tn "mid-south" accent, and it's Pe-Con, not Pee-can)

It's important to understand the U.S.A. presents different faces to different people. Those seeing one face don't understand the complaints by those shown another face.

The gun community seems to draw its share of racists and bigots. Understand, harassing non-whites at gun shows, shops and ranges is something racists want to do. The roots of gun control are about who has guns. The Klan feels the same way. They want non-whites put off from being well armed.

But, this hurts us. It makes it difficult for those shown a different face that they should support us as they chose representatives and rally for causes. In spite of these kinds of people, celebrate and continue to support this human right our Constitution acknowledges.

Rather than be put off by low life idiots, equip yourself and train for self-defense.

I'm a half-breed.

I can't say I recall any real profiling or racism, but then again I live in the midwest, and I may be too dense to notice subtle forms of racism anyway. I also work in an office and don't get much sun, so my true colors don't really come out (pun intended heheheheh).

I do think the way I act, dress, speak, and present myself makes a difference. Since I keep my haircut short and my face clean shaven. If I grew out a nice goatee and wore super baggy clothes, I might be treated differently. Not saying it is right, or that you should change your appearance to suit others, but I think it's the reality of the matter. Growing up I always identified as white. It wasn't until I saw a photo of myself with some white friends (after a tropical vacation) that I was struck by how different I looked. But then again tanning is so popular nowadays people probably just think I am very vain and hoping to get skin cancer.

A lot of it is ignorance and that stems from experiences growing up. I was absolutely enamored with a girl growing up, Saudi Arabian Muslim family, so I was fortunate to get to know her a bit and I think that made me grow up to be much more color-blind.