any people of color?

DilboFlaggins said:

Are there any people of color on here, who carry for fear of hate crimes?

I am one, and I get the impression that the gun community consist mostly of white males. Though I have never been made to feel uncomfortable by the people here, I attribute that to vigilant moderators and the anonymity of the internet.

Click to expand...

I am a white male but have shooting buddies who are asian and black. As a whole the shooting community has always been very embracing of minorities. Now, to be fair the non-white shooters I know are middle class and don't look like hip-hop thugs. I suspect that the shooting community may be much more closed to non-whites who sport a dress and lingo far from main stream. I don't know if this is because of a general dislike/separation from that group or because the shooting community fears firearms-related problems.

So, I know you say you are bearded, but do you otherwise present as a middle class average person? You maybe experiencing some 'anti-islam' backlash where the shooting community members who see you fear that it's just more likely that any sales or training will come back to bite them in the butt, same way 4 young black men pulling up to a gun shop in a black escalade, all of them wearing hip-hop cloths may be judged as 'too much of a risk'

This may not be a good thing, but I think it is the reality.

I guess maybe the test would be if a gun shop owner is as quick to kick out guys that look like hell's angles, skinheads, gangsta-rappers, and traditional-dressed Iranian-Americans.

I am a person of color - Caucasian - and I have had to defend myself when in the presence of those of other skin tones - merely because mine did not agree with theirs. Sadly, I think this issue will get worse as the upcoming election nears - one can hope it doesn't, but that doesn't alleviate the need for protection from all kinds these days.

Unfortunately, previous attempts here and elsewhere to try and rationally discuss this issue have gotten me placed in time outs as inappropriate, so I will stop here - it would be nice to have a serious discussion regarding all things PC and how it affects us all

I agree with Ron. We as human tend to group people. Rich poor black white. I have wondered sometimes what this world would be like if we were all the same. We have a guy at work that is Muslim. I forgot what country he is from. He is the best person. He is so funny and will do anything he can for you. He makes fun of us and we make fun of him but it is all in fun. I trust him more than a lot of the white males I work with.
You ever go to the shooting range with a AK just to freak people out. I live in SC if you want to go sometime let me know. It is sad to say but it is going to happen so you might as well have some fun with it. Glad you are giving us a chance also.

2ndAmFan said:

I haven't heard much in the way of racist jokes or remarks at gun stores, though I sure heard more than my share of them on construction sites as a young man. One thing I've noticed in the last 20 years or so is the increasing racial mix of people at gun shows, at least in Texas. It used to be you'd see some Hispanics, possibly a few orientals, but other than that it was pretty much a whole lot of white faces. The last few shows I went to were much more mixed, with pretty much all races represented, both customers and vendors. Things are looking up, and IMO we gun enthusiasts should stand together.

Click to expand...

"Asians"...

FWIW, "Hispanic" means nothing more than "Spanish-speaking." It does not mean "Latino." PLENTY of "white faces" in Spain, Mexico and many other Hispanic countries.

I get this all the time and I'm a 66 year old white guy. If dressed in normal everyday cloths people act much differently than when I'm in a pair of jeans a T shirt and just get off my Harley. When actually I'm usually in a better more relaxed mood and more friendly when I am riding. I certainly do not act like some sort of BG it's just what people see through there own eyes. I can't change there fears, I can only be me. If I do see people who looked scared or uncomfortable for whatever reason when in my presence I try to remove there fears by just giving them a friendly smile and a hello or perhaps hold a door for them if we're entering a building at the same time. Sometimes a few friendly words or action is all it takes to break the ice and for people to come around. I have a very good friend who's wife told me that the first time she met me she was scared to death and thought how in the world did my husband get wrapped up with this biker dude. Now we're best friends and we laugh about it. Only thing I can say is try to make yourself more approachable so people get to know you for who you really are not as there fears say you are. Good luck.

The gun culture has its 1% of obnoxious, rude, and ill mannered individuals-this 100% whitebread shooter stopped bothering with a local gun club after I encountered rude and boorish behavior from a member there. My personal opinion is that people have the right to be boorish and rude and ill mannered-or unhygeinic. And I have the right not to associate with them. That's the best way to deal with it. The gunshop/range where I do most of my shooting has large numbers of shooters "of color". No doubt it reflect the current state of public accomodations laws, but it also reflects the owners attitude that the one color they want to see in their customers-is green.

Not to rant but . . . People born in the United States of America are "AMERICANS"! If people would refer to themselves that way then possibly they might get treated that way! Now to the point! Ignorance by the few, unfortunately can and will muck it up for the many. Education will help as will example. I am not the perfect person by any means but, if I'm going to hate somebody it will be just that individual not a whole race or nationality of people! Rant over!!!

I am white, which happens to be a color. I have been the victim of a hate crime. I was too young too CCW legally at the time.

Violence and hate are not about race.

CCW and self defence are for everybody.

Funny how people look at these things. In the UK, when I registered my son for school, they needed to know his ethnicity for the paperwork (it's not optional). Unlike the US, 'White' is not an answer - of course you are love, but ...
Well, we're not Indian, or Afro-Caribean, or something... I told them I'm descended in direct paternal lineage from Clan Scott of Borders, Tweed Valley region. They happily nodded, and looked at my wife, and asked if [x] Two or more races [x] Scottish [x] Other: _American_ would be acceptable... we had a good laugh when we got home. It still took a good year before they began treating us like actual people, though.
EVERYONE has a basic tendency to group according to an 'us/them' mentality. The truly unfortunate thing is that SOME people are RUDE about it.
If they're VIOLENT about it, I'm not concerned with their motives... only their ACTIONS. That said, if you believe that justifies CC to protect yourself and your family, I agree with you. That makes you one of 'us' in my book.

ETA: BTW, that makes me NON-ANGLO. Funny how many Americans don't realize that Scots and Irish are NOT anglo-saxon (we have a racial slur for that, btw). The English, of course, never make that mistake.

ETAA: I'll never forget the time I saw a black lady loudly call Bill O'Reilly a W.A.S.P - (he's Irish Catholic)- the look of shock and FURY was immediate, and the slap-down was priceless! EVERYBODY has the tendency, some people don't identify it a a character fault, and make insufficient efforts to control it, and it comes out when they get angry... that's ugly. In the words of Hannibal Lecter, "Discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me."
(Watch out for the 'free-range rude')

After all these decades, basically I have boiled down racism (and basically any other kind of discrimination) into a very, very simple reason:

LAZINESS!!!

More specifically, intellectual laziness.

The reason is that people who discriminate are too lazy to use their brains to assess every single situation independently of other situations, including people. If you tell them you need to assess every single person as a unique individual EVERY SINGLE TIME they probably will say that's too much hassle! Well, that's laziness.

Fact is, there are good and bad people of all kinds of skin color and height and handedness and whatever. And for some people, it's just too much work, too much effort, to delay judgement until they have had a conversation or some other interaction upon which they can JUSTIFIABLY make a conclusion about the other person's character.

Stereotypes, in a way, are just a lazy "rule of thumb" but unlike other aspects of nature (e.g., certain cloud formations can indicate coming weather) they don't work in today's society with people of varying preferences and backgrounds (note that I try to avoid the word "culture" because it implies people of a certain skin color will naturally gravitate toward the "assigned culture" of that color; culture is just a bunch of habits grouped together and passed onto other people by memorization/conditioning).

i worked at a gun shop for a few years. I never cared what color someone was when they walked in the door, but how they acted definately had a bearing on my opinion. We had alot of customers who were not white or male.

Quote from Kynoch:

Originally Posted by 2ndAmFan
I haven't heard much in the way of racist jokes or remarks at gun stores, though I sure heard more than my share of them on construction sites as a young man. One thing I've noticed in the last 20 years or so is the increasing racial mix of people at gun shows, at least in Texas. It used to be you'd see some Hispanics, possibly a few orientals, but other than that it was pretty much a whole lot of white faces. The last few shows I went to were much more mixed, with pretty much all races represented, both customers and vendors. Things are looking up, and IMO we gun enthusiasts should stand together.

"Asians"...

FWIW, "Hispanic" means nothing more than "Spanish-speaking." It does not mean "Latino." PLENTY of "white faces" in Spain, Mexico and many other Hispanic countries.

There is quite a bit of difference of opinion regarding the meanings of the terms "Hispanic" and "Oriental" which I used in my original post and I can find no evidence that they are inaccurate, unacceptable or pejorative.
My point was that based on my experience at Texas gun shows bigotry is on the wane, as it should be. I am proud to be a member of The High Road, and strive always to stay on that road when I post here.

Anyway, like 2ndAmFan says, everyone needs to stand together.

Race? Skin color? Not important....but...those Auburn fans......

jimmyray, this is where Texans are different... sure, Longhorns and Aggies have beaten the snot out of each other for so long, so badly, we had to put them in separate conferences finally to stop the carnage... but we ALL agree that when Okies play Sooners or Huskers, we only root for injuries.

I'm a Native American and I do in fact carry for fear of hate crimes. Mostly I carry for the general protection of myself and mine, but I was reminded last year of what can transpire when you wander into where you are not welcome. I had an emergency appendectomy and had to visit my surgeon once before he would pronounce me fit for anything. His office was in Dearborn Michigan and I couldn't believe the bigotry I saw and heard coming from the Arab community, from what I understand, the largest in North America. I will never again willingly set foot in Dearborn, certainly not that part of it. I likened it to a white man walking down 12th street in Detroit in 1967. I am certainly not going to spend as much time there as possible, simply because "it's their problem, not mine." That sort of "in your face" attitude is fighting bigotry with bigotry.

Seems some people over heard and they thought i was talking about shooting into a crowd of people; because that is what people openly talk about at gun shows.

Click to expand...

I really wish anonymous tiplines wouldn't protect busy-bodies who perpetrate this kind of nonsense . Like calling 911 on a bogus emergency, you should be accountable for sicking (sp?) the police (or Feds ) on someone who's done nothing wrong, or even suspicious. An Iranian friend of mine was bluntly propositioned recently by a Buford-"TSA"-Justice fat-guy to "Lemme kno' wat's goin' on in yer mosk?" Just disgusting.

After all these decades, basically I have boiled down racism (and basically any other kind of discrimination) into a very, very simple reason:

LAZINESS!!!

Click to expand...

Brilliant!!!

FWIW, I find that many of the ol' boys who sit around the gunshops they own all day collecting FFL transfer fees and jaw-bonin', [/I]are pretty darn lazy. Which explains their attitudes' lack of complexity.

I also have found it is very self-serving for store owners to race-bait in order to:
1.) Scare the (majority white, in most cases) equally lazy customer to buy "before O'bama (pronounced like "Alabama" usually) Hussein bans everything"
2.) Scare the "riff raff races" away to:
2a.) Better please the said lazy customers
2b.) "Prevent Shoplifing," at least in the store owner's mind

The fact is most of these old guys grew old and lazy(er) back in the days when racism/bigotry was tolerated or even the norm. Most people see these geezers as "harmless" or "to be respected" and therefore don't seek to make them change. Being lazy, nothing will make them change (except Father Time, ultimately).

Full disclosure; I'm white, but I've still been treated weird in some gunshops (the Kountry kind) because I have a Pacific NW accent. I've been accused of being Californian on numerous occaisions, with all the baggage that brings in gunshops. One idiot actually thought I was an Anti "spy" or something doing a slam piece when I asked if he'd do an FFL transfer to me from an out of state private seller . Needless to say, that moron lost the easiest 25$ he'd ever make from me.

TCB

Roadking Rider said:

I get this all the time and I'm a 66 year old white guy. If dressed in normal everyday cloths people act much differently than when I'm in a pair of jeans a T shirt and just get off my Harley. When actually I'm usually in a better more relaxed mood and more friendly when I am riding. I certainly do not act like some sort of BG it's just what people see through there own eyes. I can't change there fears, I can only be me. If I do see people who looked scared or uncomfortable for whatever reason when in my presence I try to remove there fears by just giving them a friendly smile and a hello or perhaps hold a door for them if we're entering a building at the same time. Sometimes a few friendly words or action is all it takes to break the ice and for people to come around. I have a very good friend who's wife told me that the first time she met me she was scared to death and thought how in the world did my husband get wrapped up with this biker dude. Now we're best friends and we laugh about it. Only thing I can say is try to make yourself more approachable so people get to know you for who you really are not as there fears say you are. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Sure you can if you actually wanted to. You could wear "normal everyday cloths." I'm not saying that you should but you COULD influence how some people view you.

What's really scary is seeing a Dallas Cowboy fan with a gun!! What do you do? Try to talk him down off the ledge and disarm him or tell him that Campos is back and give him a push?

2ndAmFan said:

Quote from Kynoch:

Originally Posted by 2ndAmFan
I haven't heard much in the way of racist jokes or remarks at gun stores, though I sure heard more than my share of them on construction sites as a young man. One thing I've noticed in the last 20 years or so is the increasing racial mix of people at gun shows, at least in Texas. It used to be you'd see some Hispanics, possibly a few orientals, but other than that it was pretty much a whole lot of white faces. The last few shows I went to were much more mixed, with pretty much all races represented, both customers and vendors. Things are looking up, and IMO we gun enthusiasts should stand together.

"Asians"...

FWIW, "Hispanic" means nothing more than "Spanish-speaking." It does not mean "Latino." PLENTY of "white faces" in Spain, Mexico and many other Hispanic countries.

There is quite a bit of difference of opinion regarding the meanings of the terms "Hispanic" and "Oriental" which I used in my original post and I can find no evidence that they are inaccurate, unacceptable or pejorative.
My point was that based on my experience at Texas gun shows bigotry is on the wane, as it should be. I am proud to be a member of The High Road, and strive always to stay on that road when I post here.

Click to expand...

More ignorant than anything...

Over the time span of 32 years worth of casual discussions it is well known at work that I enjoy firearms. I don't flaunt it, I don't hide it. When the discussion turns to "rights" I freely (and civilly) join in.

Oddly enough that open discussion brought it's own form of discrimination. There were "gun nut" comments "chuckle chuckle". "What do you have ...an armory?"

Oddly enough these scardy cats all came quietly looking for one on one time when in the last few years it got popular here to be a cc permit holder.

Whatever it takes....

barnbwt said:

I really wish anonymous tiplines wouldn't protect busy-bodies who perpetrate this kind of BS . Like calling 911 on a bogus emergency, you should be accountable for sicking (sp?) the police (or Feds ) on someone who's done nothing wrong, or even suspicious. An Iranian friend of mine was bluntly propositioned recently by a Buford-"TSA"-Justice fat-guy to "Lemme kno' wat's goin' on in yer mosk?" Just disgusting.



Brilliant!!!

FWIW, I find that many of the ol' boys who sit around the gunshops they own all day collecting FFL transfer fees and kicking s***, are pretty damn lazy. Which explains their attitudes' lack of complexity.

I also have found it is very self-serving for store owners to race-bait in order to:
1.) Scare the (majority white, in most cases) equally lazy customer to buy "before O'bama (pronounced like "Alabama" usually) Hussein bans everything"
2.) Scare the "riff raff races" away to:
2a.) Better please the said lazy customers
2b.) "Prevent Shoplifing," at least in the store owner's mind

The fact is most of these old guys grew old and lazy(er) back in the days when racism/bigotry was tolerated or even the norm. Most people see these geezers as "harmless" or "to be respected" and therefore don't seek to make them change. Being lazy, nothing will make them change (except Father Time, ultimately).

Full disclosure; I'm white, but I've still been treated weird in some gunshops (the Kountry kind) because I have a Pacific NW accent. I've been accused of being Californian on numerous occaisions, with all the baggage that brings in gunshops. One idiot actually thought I was an Anti "spy" or something doing a slam piece when I asked if he'd do an FFL transfer to me from an out of state private seller . Needless to say, that moron lost the easiest 25$ he'd ever make from me.

TCB

Click to expand...

Do people from the PNW even have "accents" per se?

I have heard my "California accent" described as "you talk like the newsman on TV." That pretty much means zero accent for the USA.

I understand the OP's issues. Just as the Japanese Americans had to prove themselves to the military to serve in WWII. Once they did, there wasnt a command in the Army that didnt want them. The African community also was tested agains racism in the military...again, they succeded on proving the "ignorance" wrong. Id be fragile with the word "Racism" here though, wich is why I used the term "Ignorance" instead. Thats what it boils down to with this issue I suspect, more a lack of knowledge than anything.

Yet, that same lack of understanding comes from both sides of the fence and is not only substantiated by the "white male" in America. Basically....if your a square peg around a bunch of round ones.... you will stick out.

Mother nature is the GREATEST example if this subject. The different are shunned (albino, runts of the litter, deformaties ect). The animal kingdom show what is present in each and every one of us already from birth.

If you were In Iran today.... and an Isreali was wondering down your market.... would you look at him differently than all the usuall people you see ?

Same thing with a "little person" or deformed person or a dude with a horn implanted in his skull..... It is nature, you will look. you will treat that person different even if its to help with ones disability....you will treat that person different.


For those who thought you were going to stroll into America and not find this, youd be sadly mistaken. Although we are a mixing pot.... if you dont make an effort to fit in, find freinds....prove your "a good guy" whatever.... youll be looked at as someone different. Crap, I have to prove myself to gain trust and Im a white male.... do you really think it makes that big a difference ? If you appear and act (introverted and suspicious) you will be treated as such.

You know that this really should be expected given the past 10 years right ? History is a good indicator of human nature.....




On that note, Id feel much better about a person of color (whatever that means) comming out and talking about his/her feelings on the matter as you did. Ive often wanted to sit down and REALLY talk to some minorities around here, but the gap has never been filled, as you have done here. I am glad to see this post, I know others minds will be stimulated also by this thread and I think thats great.


Dont give up ! Im a landowner In western KY.... if you want somewhere to camp, relax, shoot, talk..... honestly....my home is open, and so is our minds.



Thanks for this thread again, knowledge beats ignorance every time !



Your buddy CAV






PS, Ive met great people from all over this world in my services to our country... and Ive met some real trash. I will treat you as I dont know you untill I do...lol. Make sense.

I just wanted to say something based on the many interesting posts here.

I noticed there is a kind of advice to say, well, that's how the world works and it ain't so different in America, a nail that sticks out is gonna get hit, etc.

I realize that is the reality, but I also wanted to point out that this *IS* America, and should we not strive to a higher level of civilization than what has been handed down eons from the Old World? Strictly speaking, America has already pioneered many core principles (1A and 2A being just two examples) that have been taken from other cultures/societies and these "best practices" have become the founding principles of this Great Nation.

I guess I am just ranting a bit that we should not just so easily let go of this ideal, just because it is idealistic, because damn it, America *is* founded upon the bright shining beacon of idealism, and how great a thing that is in the world.