S&W M&P vs GLOCK

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WinThePennant

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Right now, my main preference is for GLOCK pistols. Love my Glocks.

But, Smith & Wesson is really making a case for dethroning Glock's King of the Hill status.

They are making guns for LEOs, military, AND civilians. Glock seems to care less about the civilian market. No single stack 9mm.

S&W. They make a single stack 9mm. They make a full-size .22LR for the M&P. They make a variety of choices (safety, no safety, etc.).

And, by all rights, the M&P is now equal to the Glock in reliability. And, they are an American company making a great product -- HERE, in America.

Also, throw in the fact that they make great rifles, too! The M&P rifles, by all measures, run great. And, they make them available in a variety of options and price points, too!

Any reason why S&W won't be the KING gun maker in the years to come?
 
I had 3 Glocks at one time. I sold 2 of them to finance my XDm. I was
wcently bitten by the M&P bug when I shot my friends gun. I was impressed by ergonomics and trigger.
 
They are making guns for LEOs, military, AND civilians. Glock seems to care less about the civilian market. No single stack 9mm.
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I'm not aware of any military units that have adopted the M&P. However, don't let that stop you if you find you prefer that line of pistols. Also, no rules saying you can't own both. :)

As far as dethroning Glock by taking over more market share, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
 
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And, by all rights, the M&P is now equal to the Glock in reliability.
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I sincerely WISH that was the case. Unfortunately it really isn't. Not yet.

As I posted elsewhere before:

I would like to say the M&Ps are absolutely fantastic. I shot my best classifer score ever with an M&P I'd just borrowed from a pal. They're very nice to shoot.

Unfortunately, the collection of recurring problems MANY of my upper-level competitor friends have experienced with them has driven quite a few of them away from them.

There's a common failure to extract issue. There are workarounds like aftermarket extractors and stronger springs, but maddeningly, that does not always solve the problem -- or solves it for a few days, weeks, or months only to have it inexplicably return.

There's also a light primer strikes problem which affects some guns. Again, stronger springs, polish this, polish that...and it might get better for a while.

I've got one pal who's bought and sold five M&Ps and is now sworn off the platform "forever" ...again.

I know five or six Expert/Master/"A" type shooters who've experienced these issues and ended up returning guns to S&W multiple times, dropping in better parts, and ditching the platform anyway.

This is more hard to take in that the group I shoot with is very local to (and shoots regularly with) one of the main M&P gunsmiths (Burwell), so if they can't keep the gun running, that's telling. In fact, I worked the PA States IDPA match at Dan Burwell's home club earlier this month, and this was a returning topic of conversation -- punctuated by the fact that several M&P pistols had these familiar malfunctions during the match!

I really do like those guns, but I'm not buying one. Don't know what it will take for S&W to get them ALL to work right in the long-term, but they've had plenty of time and they aren't there yet.
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I sincerely WISH that was the case. Unfortunately it really isn't. Not yet.
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Eek! Sam, that is the first I had heard of recurring problems. I know every manufacturer puts out a lemon on occasion of course. Do you happen to know if it was more prevalent with certain cartridge/size model? I was thinking of getting an M&P 9c for carry. Really loved shooting the rental.

Maybe I should wait until they roll out the Fourth Generation M&P, just to be safe. :)
 
Also, throw in the fact that they make great rifles, too!
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Hmmmmm... You do realize they make these guns with cylinders that revolve too.. What are they called again? :)


Glock seems to care less about the civilian market. No single stack 9mm.
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I do agree with this though...


and Sam I think Gen4's issues are pretty well documented...

I own a m&p45c however, I am not enamored by it...
 
Do you happen to know if it was more prevalent with certain cartridge/size model?
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For what it may be worth, most of the guns I've heard of or seen with this issue were 9mm Pros.
 
I don't really get in to Glock vs. other gun debates. I own a G30SF 3rd gen that I love. Im not a fanboy tho. But I also like HK a lot and the M&P line. What I think is happening is Glock has been around a while. M&P is starting to prove itself more and more and gain a bigger following.




VoodooSan

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sam1911, interesting how you quote one of your previous posts on the M&P and then, several posts later, note that the problems seem to occur mainly with the Pro line.

We have several large LE agencies in my state (mine is one) that issue the M&P and to my knowledge, we're not seeing these problems, at least on the (allegedly) widespread basis that you claim. We have some folks that shoot a lot (perhaps not as much as some "upper-level competitor friends") but the problems are fairly minimal and the factory support has been excellent. Any fixes required are all relatively simple.

The M&P is what it is, a competitively priced, exceptionally ergonomic, reliable, easy to shoot and reasonably accurate pistol. Some would argue the platform is far more ergonomic that the Glocks; I'd argue that the trigger is better and they're more accurate.
 
Hey, I don't even own one. I don't say you will have a problem, or that a police force issuing these guns would ever shoot them enough to notice this sort of issue.

I do know one high-level competitor who is also a NJSP officer who quit his Glocks for a while to run all M&Ps, but then went back after a year or so citing issues he found too frustrating to continue to fight. But that's just one guy. Each of the guys I've shot with who've had these problems are just one guy experiencing issues. But as I know more than a few of these "just one guys" who've run into trouble when operating these guns in the manner that I would use them, that's enough to steer me toward other very good similar platforms.

I won't tell you what you should do, though. Just sharing some observations.

The M&P is what it is, a competitively priced, exceptionally ergonomic, reliable, easy to shoot and reasonably accurate pistol. Some would argue the platform is far more ergonomic that the Glocks; I'd argue that the trigger is better and they're more accurate.
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You are exactly right on most counts. They are very ergonomic, they are easy to shoot, and they are accurate. Whether they are "MORE" accurate than a Glock, generally speaking, I wouldn't venture to say.

The two known reliability problems are deal killers for me because competitions are often won and lost on the basis of fractions of a second, so clearing even one failure to extract, or running into a few light-strike "Tap-Rack-Bangs" can actually ruin your whole day when your best competitor doesn't have to clear the same malfunctions. In "real life" that's probably not such a big deal.
 
A few names of what?

If you want me to post the names of individual competitors I shoot with ... I have to say I'm really not comfortable doing that. There's not much privacy in the world these days, but I'm not going to "out" my shooting buddies by name.

It doesn't really inform the discussion anyway, unless you were planning to call them up and ask if they really did buy multiple M&Ps! :)
 
So this is essentially S&W vs. Glock, not M&P vs. Glock?

Right now, my main preference is for GLOCK pistols. Love my Glocks.

But, Smith & Wesson is really making a case for dethroning Glock's King of the Hill status.

They are making guns for LEOs, military, AND civilians. Glock seems to care less about the civilian market. No single stack 9mm.

S&W. They make a single stack 9mm. They make a full-size .22LR for the M&P. They make a variety of choices (safety, no safety, etc.).

And, by all rights, the M&P is now equal to the Glock in reliability. And, they are an American company making a great product -- HERE, in America.

Also, throw in the fact that they make great rifles, too! The M&P rifles, by all measures, run great. And, they make them available in a variety of options and price points, too!

Any reason why S&W won't be the KING gun maker in the years to come?
Click to expand...
As mentioned, no military has chosen the platform. I've yet to even hear of anyone in our own military using them, but then I could be wrong there. Also, Glock is very warm towards its civilian customers. Just go to Smyrna, GA for a day. The only reason I know of that is preventing a single-stack 9mm or .380 is import regulations. Is that the only reason? Maybe. They do have a plant in Smyrna, GA, but they are supposed to be export-only. But honestly, with the 26/27/33 out there, why would Glock bother making a pistol with 1/8" less thickness and half the capacity? Look how their 36 sells compared to their 30. I suspect it would be a similar situation with any other caliber.
 
Regarding military uses, please read:

http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-newsArticle_pf&ID=1220183&highlight=


SPRINGFIELD, Mass., Oct. 30 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (Nasdaq: SWHC), parent company of Smith & Wesson Corp., the legendary 156-year old company in the global business of safety, security, protection and sport, announced today that it has shipped 7,500 M&P9 pistols to the U.S. Armed Forces in Iraq for distribution to Iraqi military and security forces. The procurement order was issued by the U.S. Army Tank-Automotive and Armaments Command. Smith & Wesson will also supply supplemental accessories and spare parts for the firearms.
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Yesterday afternoon I was at the range shooting the Glock G17 and S&W MP9. I have no preference between the two. I’ll allow that I have more experience with the Glock G17. Either pistol is satisfactory. As far as preference I’m neutral.

The S&W trigger system was a nettlesome issue at first but with extended usage is a nonissue now.

The OEM sights on both pistols were replaced with after market sets. The Glock G17 as a Warren plain black system and the S&W MP9 a Novak front night sight with a 10-8 U-Notch plain rear sight.
 
It is really up to the user. Which ever one feels better. I have both a 17 and an M&P 9mm. They are both accurate and well made. And my Glock 17 was made in the USA. So which ever one strikes your fancy.
 
Old Dog said:
The M&P is what it is, a competitively priced, exceptionally ergonomic, reliable, easy to shoot and reasonably accurate pistol. Some would argue the platform is far more ergonomic that the Glocks; I'd argue that the trigger is better and they're more accurate.
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This is interesting and the usual complaints from M&P9 owners are the gritty triggers, lack of distinct reset and so-so accuracy....granted a lot depends on the level of your comparison and what you find acceptable. I should admit that I really like the M&P line and the M&P9 is my platform of choice for competition...also that I have long owned a Glock G19.

I got into the M&P line late, because I knew that the first ones introduced to market were really beta testing. To their credit S&W stepped right up to address problems...dropping magazines and deteriorating striker tips...and these issues are well in the past. They also addressed the sear stalling, by going with a larger sear plunger/spring.

A larger issue was the lack of accuracy in the 9mm versions. The M&P was optimized for the .40 and the 9mm barrels were unlocking too soon...also the fit of the barrels left quite a bit to be desired (read Hilton Yam's blog for testing results)...and they use the same .40 extractor. The current barrels are fit much tighter to the breachface (comparable to StormLake barrels). They still use the extractor optimized for the .40, but the problem isn't widespread enough...except with competitors...to justify a production redesign

The trigger of the M&P has long been a weak point of the design. The uptake is mostly affected by the contour and lack of polish of the striker block where it contacts the trigger bar. It's reset has always been indistinct and would even sometimes offer a false reset. This last has been addressed in the aftermarket by Apex Tactical Specialties with their RAM and the factory has followed with a better reset on the new Shield. Due to the action geometry, the M&P can be tuned finer than the Glock. I actually prefer my M&P9 equipped with the Apex Tactical FSS trigger modification to my 1911 build's trigger when shooting quickly.

I'm not a great shooter, but I think I'm a bit more than capable of wringing a pistol out. My stock M&P9 took a lot of work to hold a 3" group at 5-7 yards. Installing the FSS immediately shrunk that to a dime sized group (.75"). These were shot outside, standing, using a two handed grip

Having spent 28 years in LE, I realize that there are different definitions of acceptable triggers and accuracy. I'd say the stock M&P trigger would be acceptable to 80% of users
 
I was at the range today and decided to rent a glock 17 and see how it stacks up against my m&p9 and ruger kp89 in terms of accuracy. For these targets I shot 17 rounds out of each gun. Probably not stellar accuracy from what some people can do but I was pretty happy with it (the black circle is 6" in diameter). All 3 guns are stock and seemed pretty comparable but it looks like I shot the ruger the best today.
 

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I'm in the M&P camp. A couple of years ago I started shooting USPSA & IDPA at a couple of local clubs. I decided to go with a different platform than my SIG 226. I wanted to shoot Production class. IDPA puts the XD in a different class, so that leaves out XD. I also wanted to shoot cast bullets. What about a Glock? Buy the gun and a new barrel. But the finger grooves don't fit my hand very well. What about those stock sights? Lots of guys replace the stock plastic sights too.

Pluses for the M&P, American company and made here. Don't need a new barrel, three different back straps to fit you're hand well. You can take the slide off without pulling the trigger. If you want a safety, you can get it. And I like the looks better too.

So, I bought a M&P Pro in 40 S&W. My reason for 40 is because I can load major for Limited/limited 10, or download and shoot production, which is what I normally do. I was already set up to cast and reload 40. I bought the Pro because I was using it for competition, not carry.

Well, since then I've bought a M&P 40c with CT laser grips, another plus. I like how they go on and come off. A M&P 22 and finally a M&P Shield in 9mm. Oh, and a few months ago I bought a little stock in the company too.

I've been very pleased with Smith & Wesson on all counts. People rave about the trigger on the Shield over the normal M&P. Maybe it's because I've shot them enough, but really, my 40c has about as good a trigger as the Pro and they are both a little better than the Shield.

But I will tell you, I have a friend that has a glock 19 and I shoot it very well.

A plus for the Glock is, options for modifications. M&P hasn't caught up quite yet on that count. Glocks are good, but make mine a Smith.
 
I like to call the M&P a "better-feeling Glock" and have owned one (9mm compact) and shot another as a rental (9mm full size, which impressed me enough to want to buy the compact). The compact had 100% perfect reliability from the very first round.
 
I recently switched over to the M&P series for my carry gun, I was a Glock died in the wool fan, however after comparing the two on the range and other features and feel the M&P is the winner in my book.
 
Glock is my preference, but not because I dislike the Smith. Nothing fits my hand or shoots as well as my Gen 4 19.
 
S&W isn't in the the same league as Glock IMHO.The S&W/M&P line has had a host of QC problems. I have purchased three new S&W products and two have been stinkers,At least S&W replaced my BG38 with a new gun and so far no problems,but I do not trust it yet. My personal FS M&P 9mm can't hit the broad side of a barn,any of my Glocks can. Glock did bite themselves in the butt by trying to cheapen(Gen4) some components with MIM,bad move.
 
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