Twmaster
Member
This. I do not have a FarceBook account. Never will either. Too many busy-bodies with nothing better to do but stick their ugly noses where they don't need to be.
This Will Make Your Blood Boil!
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coloradokevin
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Social workers are out of control in this country, and the "for the children" stuff has gone way too far. We've had social workers in my jurisdiction attempt to force us to take action against gun owners. Fortunately, social workers have pretty much no authority, and don't tell me how to do my job.
I once had a social worker request a child "welfare check" because the kid had told a teacher at school that his father kept guns in the house. I was dispatched to this address with a request of finding out if the father actually had guns, and then calling the social worker back with a disposition. Fortunately, before I really got pissy on the radio, my pro-gun sergeant told our dispatcher to explain the 2nd Amendment to the social worker, and stated that we wouldn't be responding.
In another instance like this I was dispatched to a house on a similar complaint about the kid having unsupervised access to a pellet gun (a 14 or 15 year old, if I recall correctly). We were told that no illegal activity was being reported, and the complaint centered only around the fact that the kid supposedly kept the pellet gun in his room, or so the original complainant told our social worker after she overheard this kid talking to another kid about it at school. That night I wasn't working for someone who was as pro-gun, and we were sent to the call despite our belly-aching about its stupidity. So, I pretty much walked up to the door and told the parent:
"Hi, I'm officer Coloradokevin. I was sent out here to do a welfare check by a social worker who is concerned because someone told her that your teenager has unsupervised access to a pellet gun. Whether or not you allow that to be the case isn't really any of my concern, just so long as your kid isn't doing anything stupid with the pellet gun. Please be sure your son knows that it is illegal to discharge a pellet gun outside within city limits. Have a nice day". There was a bit more dialogue involved, but that was the basic gist of the conversation. Heck, I've had access to a pellet gun since I was 6 years old!
The social worker in that case complained on me and my partner because we didn't "search the house". Whatever. I could care less if a teenager has access to a pellet gun, just so long as they're being responsible with it (and we had no reason to believe otherwise).
Again, social services is out of control these days. I sometimes end up sideways with these folks in the course of doing my job, but I don't report to them. I've had several of them get pushy with me during child abuse investigations, and tell me that they "need" me to place the child in protective custody and write up a report about it (in cases where abuse really wasn't present). Guess what? I certainly have the authority to place a child in protective custody, but unless that social worker is carrying a signed court order to take custody of the kid (as they sometimes do), then I'm going to be the one making that judgment call, not them.
I mention all of this because I sometimes see younger officers falling into the trap of doing whatever the social worker tells them to do. Some of these guys need to take a step back and remember that just because someone else in a county agency is requesting something, doesn't mean that they have any authority to make it happen.
I once had a social worker request a child "welfare check" because the kid had told a teacher at school that his father kept guns in the house. I was dispatched to this address with a request of finding out if the father actually had guns, and then calling the social worker back with a disposition. Fortunately, before I really got pissy on the radio, my pro-gun sergeant told our dispatcher to explain the 2nd Amendment to the social worker, and stated that we wouldn't be responding.
In another instance like this I was dispatched to a house on a similar complaint about the kid having unsupervised access to a pellet gun (a 14 or 15 year old, if I recall correctly). We were told that no illegal activity was being reported, and the complaint centered only around the fact that the kid supposedly kept the pellet gun in his room, or so the original complainant told our social worker after she overheard this kid talking to another kid about it at school. That night I wasn't working for someone who was as pro-gun, and we were sent to the call despite our belly-aching about its stupidity. So, I pretty much walked up to the door and told the parent:
"Hi, I'm officer Coloradokevin. I was sent out here to do a welfare check by a social worker who is concerned because someone told her that your teenager has unsupervised access to a pellet gun. Whether or not you allow that to be the case isn't really any of my concern, just so long as your kid isn't doing anything stupid with the pellet gun. Please be sure your son knows that it is illegal to discharge a pellet gun outside within city limits. Have a nice day". There was a bit more dialogue involved, but that was the basic gist of the conversation. Heck, I've had access to a pellet gun since I was 6 years old!
The social worker in that case complained on me and my partner because we didn't "search the house". Whatever. I could care less if a teenager has access to a pellet gun, just so long as they're being responsible with it (and we had no reason to believe otherwise).
Again, social services is out of control these days. I sometimes end up sideways with these folks in the course of doing my job, but I don't report to them. I've had several of them get pushy with me during child abuse investigations, and tell me that they "need" me to place the child in protective custody and write up a report about it (in cases where abuse really wasn't present). Guess what? I certainly have the authority to place a child in protective custody, but unless that social worker is carrying a signed court order to take custody of the kid (as they sometimes do), then I'm going to be the one making that judgment call, not them.
I mention all of this because I sometimes see younger officers falling into the trap of doing whatever the social worker tells them to do. Some of these guys need to take a step back and remember that just because someone else in a county agency is requesting something, doesn't mean that they have any authority to make it happen.
Shadow 7D
Member
Public official in public performing public service, believe the Supreme Court had something to say about that (as in NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY)
That said, I have had contact with them, got a call on Friday from a supervisor, who had questions (and he was informed I was recording the call)
the gist was someone reported that my kid was being taken care of (that actually was the complaint, that I let a family friend, who happened to be working hold my son while my wife dealt with something and I dealt with the baby) That the complaint could only be called in by 5 people, involved HIPAA information and the only person who could have called was the state worker, violating HIPAA...
it got filed in the trash, in these there are rarely good outcomes once you are in the system, many social workers seem to go for the low hanging fruit. If you are contacted by them, know your rights and call an attorney, because the only way you can really beat a children services case is for it never to be started. Sad but true.
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Ehtereon11B
internet infantryman
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Read that article off my FB feed this morning. It didn't surprise me at all when I saw it was in New Jersey. That state is a lost cause when it comes to RKBA.
Shadow 7D
Member
Wasn't NJ the place where the Neo Nazi kids were removed because they named the boy Adolf and the court found that raising them as Nazi's would be 'harmful' to the kids?
BTW, except for ideology, NO ABUSE...
BTW, except for ideology, NO ABUSE...
statelineblues
Member
Lived in NJ for close to 20 years.
DYFS (Division of Youth and Family Services) is the 1000 lb gorilla in NJ. Once you are on their radar you will never be left alone.
The lawyer mentioned in the story, Evan Nappan, is the authority on gun laws in New Jersey. He published a great book regarding NJ Gun Laws.
The one thing the NJ gov worker bees can't handle is a citizen standing up to them. They expect everyone to roll over and play dead...
DYFS (Division of Youth and Family Services) is the 1000 lb gorilla in NJ. Once you are on their radar you will never be left alone.
Police assistance is almost always requested with welfare checks in NJ.
The lawyer mentioned in the story, Evan Nappan, is the authority on gun laws in New Jersey. He published a great book regarding NJ Gun Laws.
The one thing the NJ gov worker bees can't handle is a citizen standing up to them. They expect everyone to roll over and play dead...
TenDriver
Member
I have an uncle who lives in NJ and went to visit him once a year during my teen years. Always enjoyed watching trains on the NEC line and going to the NYC airports to watch the airplanes. These experiences helped form who I am today in more ways than one.
After the first couple of trips up there I began to notice you couldn't do as much there as I could at home. A walk ON the train tracks usually elicited a visit from a local cop, who invariably had an attitude and wanted to teach me a lesson. It seemed every few miles on the Turnpike I'd see a State Police car. At home I could make the 290 mile drive to my grandparents and see one local police car the entire trip. Occasionally a State Trooper on the 360 mile drive to the beach. No thank you....
The situation this family in is regrettable and undeserved, but not unexpected in today's morally bankrupt society. This type of response could have happened anywhere. Even here in AL. I had a picture of my son sitting in my lap "driving" the car (back country road near the lake in the middle of the week.) My friend's girlfriend put a picture of it on her Facebook page, and before we had finished the hour long drive home I had two calls from people warning me to get it off the internet and another from my screaming wife wanting to know what I was doing.
After the first couple of trips up there I began to notice you couldn't do as much there as I could at home. A walk ON the train tracks usually elicited a visit from a local cop, who invariably had an attitude and wanted to teach me a lesson. It seemed every few miles on the Turnpike I'd see a State Police car. At home I could make the 290 mile drive to my grandparents and see one local police car the entire trip. Occasionally a State Trooper on the 360 mile drive to the beach. No thank you....
The situation this family in is regrettable and undeserved, but not unexpected in today's morally bankrupt society. This type of response could have happened anywhere. Even here in AL. I had a picture of my son sitting in my lap "driving" the car (back country road near the lake in the middle of the week.) My friend's girlfriend put a picture of it on her Facebook page, and before we had finished the hour long drive home I had two calls from people warning me to get it off the internet and another from my screaming wife wanting to know what I was doing.
^^^^This.tendriver said:
There is a picture that's been on the net forever. It's a baby duct taped to a wall, along with her stuffed duck.
I thought it was funny, and posted a print out of it on the wall in my business. (The child is in no danger)
A woman saw it, and thought it was funny too. She took a picture of the picture and emailed it to her daughter, who she thought would think it's funny.
The daughter did think it funny, and posted the pic on her FB page.
The daughter got into an argument with a co-worker about something. The co-worker got pissed, called CPS, and alerted them of the photo saying it was this person's kid, and the investigation started.
At one point CPS in WA state contacted the authorities in AZ, and they came to my business to see if indeed this is where the whole thing started. Of course they had to take pictures of the picture too.
I came to find out that it all got worked out, but it wasn't easy for anyone.
Case in point, be very careful of what you post anywhere on the net. This was all in fun, yet someone had some real nightmares to deal with over it.
I'm disappointed in the actions of the cops. While the one article quotes the victim as saying that the police acted "professionally" they clearly did not. They may have been polite and maybe that's what the victim meant but allowing the DYFS thugs to bully the victims was an absolute failure in the cop's duty to protect the victims. Even allowing the DYFS people to refuse to provide thier identification was a failure on the part of the cops. Whenever I was the escorting officer on these types of calls I always obtained full identification from all of the people I was escorting as well as a breifing on the reason for the "visit" before allowing them to approach the person or residence in question. I have only once seen a state employee refuse to give proper identification to a subject but she did reluctantly produce it when I ordered her to do so and that is what the cops in this incident should have done.
ColoradoKeviin and C1ogden. I am glad there are police officers like you out there. Police have a tough job and it is just going to get harder as this type of stuff become more common. Seems like not only the people need policing but also some of the government employees.
story's been making the rotation on news12.
if someone can get in touch with the person in question, tell them they should call news 12 and straighten out some of the "facts" in the story. on a good note, their facebook page appears to have mostly positive response to the event... good dad, good trigger dicipline, bad gov't, etc.
if someone can get in touch with the person in question, tell them they should call news 12 and straighten out some of the "facts" in the story. on a good note, their facebook page appears to have mostly positive response to the event... good dad, good trigger dicipline, bad gov't, etc.
Blackstone
Member
Too many busybodies around these days
Carl N. Brown
Member
This story is everywhere!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/sean-moore-facebook-gun-photo_n_2910779.html
Wayne Parry, "Sean Moore Says NJ Child Welfare Agency Overreacted To Facebook Photo Of Son Josh Holding Rifle", Huffington Post, 19 Mar 2013.
I think it's crazy. Shawn Moore gave his son Josh a .22 rimfire replica of an AR for his eleventh birthday. A photo of Josh posing with his rifle was posted on Facebook. Soon after, child welfare case workers and four police officers visited the Moore home, to inspect his gun safe and check the registration of his firearms. Moore said. "I said no; in New Jersey, your guns don't have to be registered with the state; it's voluntary." He asked one of the child welfare officials for her name and was refused. When he asked to see a warrant, they all went away. And, yeah, when they showed up he kept his lawyer on speakerphone through the whole thing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/sean-moore-facebook-gun-photo_n_2910779.html
Wayne Parry, "Sean Moore Says NJ Child Welfare Agency Overreacted To Facebook Photo Of Son Josh Holding Rifle", Huffington Post, 19 Mar 2013.
I think it's crazy. Shawn Moore gave his son Josh a .22 rimfire replica of an AR for his eleventh birthday. A photo of Josh posing with his rifle was posted on Facebook. Soon after, child welfare case workers and four police officers visited the Moore home, to inspect his gun safe and check the registration of his firearms. Moore said. "I said no; in New Jersey, your guns don't have to be registered with the state; it's voluntary." He asked one of the child welfare officials for her name and was refused. When he asked to see a warrant, they all went away. And, yeah, when they showed up he kept his lawyer on speakerphone through the whole thing.
I've had real firearms in my bedroom since I was 8 years old. My dad just happened to have taught me sine I was 4 year old how to handle and respect firearms.
TenDriver....I'll never forget a few years ago when a bunch of New Jersey cops were stopped in Virginia on I-81 for going 95 mph...which is 30 mph over the speed limit. Some Jersey Sherriff called and complained that it was disgraceful for a LEO to stop another LEO even for endangering others...he then threatened revenge and reports to National Sherriffs association....he was pretty disgraceful and that is a window into the mentality of New Jersey's government.
TenDriver....I'll never forget a few years ago when a bunch of New Jersey cops were stopped in Virginia on I-81 for going 95 mph...which is 30 mph over the speed limit. Some Jersey Sherriff called and complained that it was disgraceful for a LEO to stop another LEO even for endangering others...he then threatened revenge and reports to National Sherriffs association....he was pretty disgraceful and that is a window into the mentality of New Jersey's government.
Bubbles
Member
It's also reckless driving in VA, which is a Class I misdemeanor.
My daughter like snakes as pets (ball pythons, red-tail boas, kings, etc). None are "hot", aggressive, or have shown the slightest inclination to nip even when shedding. There are pics of her with her with her snakes on facebook, and occasionally we get a ninny blasting us for letting our daughter play with "dangerous animals".
This could happen to any one of us.
My 4 year old recently came home with a note from his teacher that indicated that he "has been spoken to several times before about his playing 'guns' with his friends, and asked not to do so...." The letter goes on saying that our assistance would be greatly appreciated in us instructing him not to play 'guns' anymore while at school.
Now this had me curious as to what the context was of WHEN, my son was playing 'guns' with is friends. If he were playing 'guns' or whatever other game he might want to play during learning time or anytime the teacher is trying to direct their classroom, then I would support correcting my son in his disrupting the classroom with his playing, guns or whatever he might want to play at the time. However, if this were merely a veiled attempt at stifling a child's fascination with firearms, then I would take issue with that. My sons live in a home where firearms are kept, and are for the defense of the family. They see their father and mother cleaning, handling, training with them and they obviously are fascinated by these objects that command even the respect of their own parents. However, his teacher did not consider this, and deemed it necessary to send a not home to let us know that this type of play would not be tolerated.
I called the school and asked to speak with the principal. They gave me the runaround and told me that they would pass on the message to him and that he would get back with me on this issue.
I have yet to hear from them. These kinds of intrusions and intolerance for gun owners sharing with their children respect and appreciation for the blessings of firearms ownership, have indeed become the norm. Expect more of these types of infringement to be executed on law abiding citizens everywhere.
My 4 year old recently came home with a note from his teacher that indicated that he "has been spoken to several times before about his playing 'guns' with his friends, and asked not to do so...." The letter goes on saying that our assistance would be greatly appreciated in us instructing him not to play 'guns' anymore while at school.
Now this had me curious as to what the context was of WHEN, my son was playing 'guns' with is friends. If he were playing 'guns' or whatever other game he might want to play during learning time or anytime the teacher is trying to direct their classroom, then I would support correcting my son in his disrupting the classroom with his playing, guns or whatever he might want to play at the time. However, if this were merely a veiled attempt at stifling a child's fascination with firearms, then I would take issue with that. My sons live in a home where firearms are kept, and are for the defense of the family. They see their father and mother cleaning, handling, training with them and they obviously are fascinated by these objects that command even the respect of their own parents. However, his teacher did not consider this, and deemed it necessary to send a not home to let us know that this type of play would not be tolerated.
I called the school and asked to speak with the principal. They gave me the runaround and told me that they would pass on the message to him and that he would get back with me on this issue.
I have yet to hear from them. These kinds of intrusions and intolerance for gun owners sharing with their children respect and appreciation for the blessings of firearms ownership, have indeed become the norm. Expect more of these types of infringement to be executed on law abiding citizens everywhere.
tuckerdog1
Member
So if he doesn't submit to her demands, demands she has no right to make, she threatens to abuse her authority and take his children
As soon as he calls her bluff, she turns and bolts. At the very least, she needs to be fired.
I understand the need to protect childern from abusive parents. But these agencies have been given way too much power. And they seem to revel in abusing it.
A friend made his daughter do her homework when she didn't want to. The next day at school, she commented to her teacher that she "hated" her Daddy. No reason given or ask for. Next thing my friend knows CPS ( child protective services ) is at his door threatening to take his kids. Had to spend thousands in attorney fees, take ploygraphs, go to counciling sessions. It dragged on for 6 months.
Tuckerdog1
As soon as he calls her bluff, she turns and bolts. At the very least, she needs to be fired.I understand the need to protect childern from abusive parents. But these agencies have been given way too much power. And they seem to revel in abusing it.
A friend made his daughter do her homework when she didn't want to. The next day at school, she commented to her teacher that she "hated" her Daddy. No reason given or ask for. Next thing my friend knows CPS ( child protective services ) is at his door threatening to take his kids. Had to spend thousands in attorney fees, take ploygraphs, go to counciling sessions. It dragged on for 6 months.
Tuckerdog1
TenDriver
Member
We need to take people like this to task.They must be sued, fired, or at least a public apology should be issued and letter must be written so that the people who hired her will get the message that this kind of behavior is not acceptable.
Please post the name and email etc, of the agency that took this case to this level, I will be happy to write them a letter, expalining that this is just unnacceptable behavior and won't be taken lightlly. If you chose not to, I understand, but all of this harrassment has to stop. Going after law abiding citizens is just unacceptable for any agency.
Why don't they go after welfare mothers who use their debit cards in casinos, and cruise ships, and refuse to take drug tests, instead of wholesome Americans exercising their legal rights.
Please post the name and email etc, of the agency that took this case to this level, I will be happy to write them a letter, expalining that this is just unnacceptable behavior and won't be taken lightlly. If you chose not to, I understand, but all of this harrassment has to stop. Going after law abiding citizens is just unacceptable for any agency.
Why don't they go after welfare mothers who use their debit cards in casinos, and cruise ships, and refuse to take drug tests, instead of wholesome Americans exercising their legal rights.
Facebook is not for me. Facebook users tend to want as many "friends" as possible, so when friend requests are made, you can either alienate people by refusing their "friendship" or you can allow people you barely know to inspect personal details about your life. Once you invite enough "friends" into your life, it's just a matter of time until you run into one or more of the nut jobs that seem to infest our world.
So to me it doesn't really matter if we are able to educate people about guns. If you open your self to a large group of people, you will eventually run into toxic individuals.
So to me it doesn't really matter if we are able to educate people about guns. If you open your self to a large group of people, you will eventually run into toxic individuals.
I wrote about this story this past sunday. Glad to see it's gathered a lot more attention and is gaining ground.
http://www.downwardslide.com/he-stood-his-ground-harassed-by-police/?fb_source=pubv1
http://www.downwardslide.com/he-stood-his-ground-harassed-by-police/?fb_source=pubv1
Gallstones
Member
No, I wouldn't publish that information anywhere. I have no pictures of any guns that I own or of myself or my son shooting them. And for the record, I don't even own any firearms.
So move along, nothing to see here.
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