Mike Vanderbrogh

Amen!

Can I get an Amen!

While it may sound great, like a pre game pep rally, what does it actually practically provide us to reverse these assaults on the 2A?

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Debatable, perhaps, but maybe the threat of civil disobedience will make some reconsider the consequences of their support for policies that infringe the RKBA. Where has "working the system" gotten us? At best, we seem at times to merely be like the little Dutch boy with our thumbs stuck in a hole in the dike, holding off the coming deluge. And if the dam does break (different metaphor), what are we prepared to do about it? I think that is what Vanderbrogh is trying to do -- to show how that civil disobedience may be required if we are to preserve our 2nd Amendment heritage. It is worth thinking about whether we believe in it enough to go that far. Maybe you think we're not there yet. Fortunately, I'm in a "free state." But if I lived in a state like MA, MD, or NY, would I simply give up? Are those states so far gone that civil disobedience is a logical next step? I can see some thinking so.

hso said:

YES, we've gotten a lot for our effort AND without firing a shot.

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Right. We - here in Arizona - have gotten an awful lot for the efforts of Americans throughout the country.

They - over in New York and New Jersey - haven't gotten so much as a whiff of air without the taint of crap in it.

Where's the honor in bragging over our victories - "without firing a shot" - when there are Americans being arrested and thrown in jail for breaking unconstitutional laws? And people here have had the balls to say that they shouldn't have broken the law. Well... we can say that about anything.

God forbid our legislators ever make it illegal to have more than one female child. Anyone caught saving a second female child's life will be thrown in prison. Of course we'd fight that legislation with everything we have. But if it was passed anyway, would we simply go along with it afterward? Would you look your brother in the eye and say, as he's being thrown in prison and his second daughter being executed, "You shouldn't have broken the law." Because that's what we're doing right now.

If we're going to fight the bills tooth and nail until the day they're passed into law, and then roll over and spit on people who break the same laws after they're passed, we're wasting our time in fighting them.

Maybe he's saying the time for "practical" words,petitions and internet polls has passed, and it's time for "impractical" measures,strategies, and actions

YES, we've gotten a lot for our effort AND without firing a shot.

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Maybe at the Federal level, and then it is a matter of perspective. I don't see that we've really made any ground at the Federal level. All we've succeeded in doing is holding off the enemy for a while. Meanwhile, they take the fight to the states, and that is where I see Vanderbrogh operating. It remains to be seen whether those "behind enemy lines" will follow his clarion call. It is easy for us in TN or AR or TX to think that we're holding off the hordes. We sometimes tell those in the anti states to "move with your feet." And it helps when they do, especially when businesses pick up and move. This is a battle being fought on many fronts. You may not be ready to take it to the level Vanderbrogh seems prepared to go, but I'm thankful there are those willing to do so.

P.S. -- who said anything about "firing a shot?" I read Vanderbrogh as calling for a form of civil disobedience.

I think the point of Mr. Vanderboegh's message, more than anything else, was to point out that even though it hasn't reached boiling point yet, it's dangerous to assume it never will.

What's the absolute worst case scenario? Whatever it is, we must all be willing to go that far, if that's what it takes to preserve freedom in this country.

I pray it doesn't go that far, and we're certainly far from it right now, but you should never throw a punch if you aren't willing to see the fight through to the end. This fight might not end with one side simply giving up after the exchange of words. It had better not end with our side being the one who gives up, because our side is the side of freedom - if it wasn't, this thread wouldn't exist.

Throughout my lifetime, I always have said, and especially during my 7 years as a graduate professor

We the people have access to the most powerful weapon on Earth...the vote! If we don't like what some politicians do, we flog their "backside" with our vote. Then, send them back in and say this time do it right, and represent my will, not yours! If they fail again, we flog their backside with a vote that removes them permanently.

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In 1994, we flogged the Hades out of the antis. Washington will push only as far as they think we will tolerate without a God-awful floggin' being unleashed at the next election. They don't fear violence. They fear our vote!

We need to work on getting people on our side to the voting booth. We need to work on fence-sitters and the like. Don't like what you've seen?! Flog their "backsides" in the upcoming election, and make it hurt!!! Send them packing with voter's proverbial "welts" across the country.

Geno

After seeing the video, I'm torn between the bravado and disobedience, and the assurance that civil war is close at hand. We're not there yet. We have to see how the political cards fall the next few years (hopefully in our favor by punishing those antis at the ballot box), reassess, and forge a plan.

I will say the NRA-ILA has been quick to send emails on legislation that needed attention to its members, that involved calling, writing, or emailing our representatives, and I took full advantage of that prompting, dozens of times.

I think those rogue states may have their anti legislation challenged in the courts soon, and I hope for the citizens they are nullified as unconstitutional, if that word is even in their judicial vocabulary, any more.

I wish we could take proactive steps to hamstring our Constitutional destroyers in the political system, but we are delegated to a reactionary force, as we learn of each new affront to our liberty, by the socialist left.

We could keep the coals hot by continuing to spout support from our brothers in blue, sheriffs, and other LEOs, as by and large they have been critical of this administrations' facades, as have we. They see through the veil of lies, and have more insight into the ramifications, if ever these gun control facades are written into law.

I'm going to stay vigilant, do what I may politically, as that is our best method of countering inside the beltway madness.

If anybody has any other suggestions, that will stay within the bounds of law, besides peaceful protest, I'm all ears.

After seeing the video, I'm torn between the bravado and disobedience, and the assurance that civil war is close at hand. We're not there yet.

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I agree, the call should be not to the barricades but to meaningful political action. There is too much work to be done, the simple act of voting, writing and calling congress,has shown to be our most powerful weapon.

bikerdoc said:

I agree, the call should be not to the barricades but to meaningful political action. There is too much work to be done, the simple act of voting, writing and calling congress,has shown to be our most powerful weapon.

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I agree. The best war is one waged without violence.

We've managed to cast a major influence against the forces that seek to control our constitutional RKBA. I just hope the future is kind and that enough people educate their children on the importance of firearm ownership in keeping our government in check.

I love America. I love it's people. I love the freedoms that we have left. I just hope we have the strength to defend them as a nation.

"Where has "working the system" gotten us?"

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Seriously? If we have any memory of recent history at all, the answers to that should be very clear -- and VERY positive! What we've gained on the federal level (and in almost all of the states) in the last 30 years of POLITICAL (non-violent) action and grass roots social change is truly astonishing. Who could have believed, in the bad old days of the 80s and early 90s, that gun ownership and the gun rights movement would enter a period of growth that would swell to a conquering tide of expanded freedoms and proliferation of the arms of the citizens? Who would have expected ALL (...nearly so and the clock is ticking!) of the states to issue concealed carry permits to their residents? Who would have believed the AWB would be allowed to sunset? Who would have ever believed that the ban on carry guns in national parks would fall? Who could have foreseen Heller and McDonald? Who would have ever seen the AR-15 rise to become "America's Rifle" and be so common as to be practically "unbannable" because it is the one gun in most common use across the nation? Who would have ever believed we'd see single days breaking 130,000 NICS checks, or single years seeing over 140 MILLION guns sold (just sales through dealers, no less)?

And did we ever, for a moment, think that challenges would not come again? Now, our "worst-case" scenario has appeared. Our latest equivalent of the Stockton or Dunblane, or Port Arthur shootings which threatened and delivered devastating blows to gun ownership in the past. And what happened? We STOOD UP. We fought HARD. And, while we've taken some hits in a few of the states (for now!), we WON. Handed the President and all the old guard gun-ban crowd a signal defeat. (Which for many of them will be the final failure of the waning days of their careers and lives.)

FURTHER, the energy we've brought to bear will not easily fade away, and the anger and drive we've set into motion IS going to bear great fruit in the coming couple of years to carry serious repercussions through the governing bodies that trampled the rights of citizens in a few states, and tried to do so federally. For the antis, this is BAD, and they have not seen the worst of it yet.

So, "where has this gotten us?" RIGHT where we're supposed to be! WINNING, USING the system of government of the country we love. Using the courts, the press, and all the ins and outs of the legislative process to protect the rights of the people! And, I like to think, making the Founders proud (for a change! ) of how the system they set up can still work.

I didn't listen to the video the OP posted. Speeches like that are all over the place, some worse than others. Speechifying is valuable in some ways and not so valuable in others. It depends on the content.

Working the system is the preferred way. But, those of us in freedom's camp need to work harder because as Colorado has shown us, those who were elected to represent the people betrayed their oath of office and defied those who elected them. We saw that in New York and a couple other states as well. Representative government is teetering on the brink. We have allowed elected officials to rather seek it as a career rather than a service.

Sometimes I wonder if we are trying to affect the wrong people; the elected to office people. I wonder if we should not be turning our attention to the media. If they were actually doing their job of exposing the corruption, the fear of that would cause the elected ones to do their duty.

So, "where has this gotten us?" RIGHT where we're supposed to be! WINNING, USING the system of government of the country we love. Using the courts, the press, and all the ins and outs of the legislative process to protect the rights of the people! And, I like to think, making the Founders proud (for a change! ) of how the system they set up can still work.

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In the examples you give to support this, you make some valid points. But I still think that all the victories you cite are little more than holding actions in a war that we're not winning. Despite the victories at the Federal level (legislative and judicial), the examples of what has taken place just this year in Colorado, New York, Connecticut (on top of Illinois, Maryland and other anti states) are ominous. Moreover, the legislative and judicial victories are only as secure as the next election (and maybe not even that secure, if Obama gets to replace a conservative justice with a liberal on the Supreme Court). And while it gets us close to being (what some might think as) off topic, you cannot completely separate the politics of gun control from some other major political issues (like immigration, or taxes and the national debt). If those political issues resolve in favor of liberal and statist ideology, more gun control will not be far behind. So while many might think that it is too soon to "take it to the streets" the way Vanderbrogh is doing, it is naive to not at least contemplate that such action may be eventually called for, and sooner rather than later.