Storing a home defense auto loader

My vote is to keep the gun like you have it when carrying it. Why have 2 ways to get your gun presented. Well, with the obvious difference of pulling it out of the holster vs drawing the gun from your belt.

I keep mine on the nightstand in condition 1, in a holster that covers the trigger.

Just my 2¢.

The HK P7 pistols solve this dilemma...

Until you squeeze the cocker, it isn't cocked.

I'd love to have a P7! Just don't have the extra cash right now, and they're not getting any cheaper as time goes on. But within the next couple months I'll be changing my approach a bit; by then I'll have picked up the HK USC I have on layaway! And yeah, an UMP conversion will hopefully be in the cards.

Striker-fired polymer pistol holstered on the side of the mattress. YMMV.

But the slide locked back could be as effective as racking a pump gun slide -- the sound of chambering a round... well, we all know that works.

btg3 said:

But the slide locked back could be as effective as racking a pump gun slide -- the sound of chambering a round... well, we all know that works.

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Yup. Works GREAT at giving away where you are in the house and that you are armed. Personally I would rather the only clue they know they entered the wrong house is the very silent click of an 870 crossbolt safety. Which unless they have ultra hearing, they won't notice anyway.

But on topic. If you feel having the slide locked back on a semi-auto is "safer" than a chambered handgun, you need more training and practice. I have used single action, DA/SA and DAO firearms as HD firearms at one point or another. Never did I think to lock the slide back in order to make it safer in an HD role.

Giving yourself more tasks to complete to get your gun into a fight is just wrong, especially when you're half asleep.

Releasing a slide is a dead giveaway as to your location, and condition.

Having to release a safety, using fine motor skills, while in an adrenalin rush or sleepy condition? I'll have a Glock please. And throw in some night sights.

I am trying to figure this out to… the best way to store a bedside firearm.

Of note, my gun is a Steyr M9-A1 without an external safety, so there is no option for condition 1. Choices for me are:

Magazine in, no round in chamber (condition 3)
Magazine in, round in chamber, slide locked back (don't really like the idea of trying to manipulate the slide when under stress/asleep)
Magazine in, round in chamber, slide forward, ready to fire (condition 0)
No real option for Condition 1 or Condition 2

It seems like there are two major factors in how you store a bedside gun:

1. The condition of the gun (safety, magazine, slide, chambered, empty chamber, etc.)
2. The location of the gun (holster, safe, in the open, etc.)

There are two major goals in determining how you balance those two factors:
1. You want the gun to be ready to shoot as quickly and easily as possible once you are awake and ready to use it.
2. You DON’T want the gun able to shoot until you ARE awake and ready to shoot.

So, laying on your bedside table in no holster with a round chambered and the safety off is GREAT for #1 (the gun is ready to shoot as soon as you pick it up) but is TERRIBLE for #2 (reach for your alarm clock, hit the trigger instead, bang). In a safe with a full magazine next to the gun is great for #2 (you have to open the safe, insert the mag, rack the slide to fire) but terrible for #1 (takes a long time to get the gun into a condition to fire).

Balancing these two, it seems to me that the ideal set up is one in which the gun is ready to shoot once you acquire it, but acquiring it takes definitive action that is simple, but won’t occur accidentally.

Option 1: For this, a safe is a good start. There is no chance of discharge without some distinct, intentional action on your part. You can leave the gun in condition However, fiddling with keys or remembering a key code and pushing the right buttons at night in the dark under stress strikes me as difficult to practice and with a high chance for error. (And I don’t really trust biometric devices yet)

Option 2: I do like the idea of a holster with a retention device, but the gun is directly accessible and I have known people with enough half-asleep/half-awake unintentional actions (myself included) that could unholster a weapon without being fully aware of what they are doing. Especially since my gun has no external safety, this would mean leaving it in condition 3 in the holster, requiring me to manipulate the retention device, remove gun, rack slide before it was ready to fire.

Option 3: This is an idea I have, but I have not actually seen it. It is probably out there, but my google-fu fails me.

A box, similar to a safe, but instead of a key/code/biometric to open, with some type of large, easily manipulated mechanical latches, would make the gun inaccessible without a serious intentional movement that is easy to execute, but too complex to execute asleep. My thought is two simple actions, so a big knob that you turn 90 degrees then pull out to open the box. Simple, easy to execute, but complex enough that I wouldn’t do it by accident.

I like this idea because the manipulations are gross, not fine, which means sleepy hands can still execute (or even asleep arms, I have a tendency to wake up with no feeling in my fingers on occasion, just lots of tinglys). This is superior to a key safe, which requires fine motor skills, or a keypad, which requires memory and fine motor skills to push the right buttons.

In a box like that, I could leave my gun in condition 0, ready to fire, and be confident that I would only access the gun when I definitely intended to. Once I had the gun, it would be ready to fire when needed.

Is this a method that is used?
Any examples of this type of box for bedside storage?

BTW, as I was researching looking for a box of my description I came across this report.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07/gun-safes/

Worth looking at... kind of scary. Don't cheap out on a safe if you have kids around.

At 4AM I don't want to mess with a slide release or racking the 12GA. All I want to do is pull the trigger and feel confident at least the one chambered round will fire.

1. Chambering could result in a failure to feed when you really need that first round
2. Chambering could compromise a tactical advantage (sound:forewarned is forearmed)
3. Dust & lint can collect in an open chamber when the slide is locked back.

Make sure your pistols will actually feed your personal defense ammo. I had a Kimber Ultra CDP II that had a real hard time with hollow-points so I sold it.

Just found a good video on gun safes HERE

For security boxes, the guy in the video (owns CE Safes in FL) suggests the ones made by Fort Knox that have a mechanical combo (push button) lock. As Pizzapinochle mentioned in the post above, some of those security boxes are garbage and biometric/electronic locks are prone to fail.

For me, I like the idea of the trigger being covered on a gun that I might need to grab in the dark. I also don't care for leaving it just laying on the nightstand. I do keep mine chambered, as I do any defense gun I own.

Many years ago I was awakened by a loud noise (which turned out being a drive by across the street) and a couple seconds later I realized what it was as a couple more shots were fired. I can tell you that I was instantly wide awake as I grabbed my gun to see what happened. Adrenaline works wonders as I am not the type that wakes up and is ready to jog around the block.

The safest firearm is the one you know how to operate without thought and with which you can put a couple of rounds on target with the least manipulation. For me, that means a DA first pull, a round in the chamber, and the manual safety either off or absent.

I keep a Glock bedside, fully loaded, in a holster. Often just a friction-retention IWB holster.

If I was concerned with that or wanted an extra step, I would simply leave the chamber empty, action closed, but no holster. Maybe even with the magazine out and next to the gun.

Any kind of even half-decent 'perimeter' setup should give you plenty of time for something as simple as inserting a mag/racking the slide

What make/model is your pistol?

At least with a DA/SA auto, storing with the slide locked back on a loaded magazine would be significantly less safe than storing it with the slide closed on a loaded chamber, safety on. That's because being bumped to the floor or jarred could cause the slide to go forward, and if a foreign object had fallen into the ejection port then you could have some minuscule risk of a slamfire. More likely, a foreign object would simply cause a failure to chamber the round, which in itself could be dangerous if you actually need it.

If you aren't comfortable storing it in a ready-to-fire condition, it would be much better to keep the slide closed on an empty chamber than to have the slide back. Or get a DA/SA with a manual safety (e.g. S&W 5906 or similar), and store it chamber loaded, hammer down, safety on.

There is no risk of jamming when you flip a safety off or draw a firearm from a holster. There is a risk of jamming when you load the first round off of a fresh magazine. Might be slight but it's still there.

The first thing I want if I'm suddenly presented with the problem of someone trying to kill me, isn't another problem. I want a solution to the original problem.

If your "nightstand gun" doesn't have a safety that you are happy with, keep it in a holster. I do, even on the guns I own with safeties. Any condition one gun in my house that's ready for self defense is chambered and ready to fire; as soon as you pull it from the holster.

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This ^^^!

Why take the chance of a failure-to-feed malfunction when your life might be on the line?

Just keep it holstered.

If you wake up groggy and grab your pistol, you can't accidentally press the trigger if it is holstered.

I would think in the end we all will default to what we in our hearts feel is the safe way to store the gun. We all have different situations and levels of training.
I would hope that if you are awakened in the dark of night, you have some sort of plan ahead of time and available light.
During my years in the Military I have seen people do some amazingly stupid things in reaction to be startled awake. Standing up and walking off of the side of a Tank Turret is an example I have see at least a half dozen times.
The guy that takes a minute to listen, come to some sort of better state of awareness and either stays put waiting in ambush or moves to a position where he has the advantage will win the day.
Comming from REM sleep to a situation where your now standing with your HD Pistol and are going to clear a dark house seems like a recipe for disaster for most folks.

My nightstand gun is a Gen 3 G17 with a light and a mini red dot sight. It is kept fully loaded with one in the pipe. That seems to work best for me.

On the other hand there are as examples S&W 3rd Gen and the current (MP series optional) with the magazine disconnect. The pistol maybe stored with a round chambered and the magazine removed.

Hangingrock said:

On the other hand there are as examples S&W 3rd Gen and the current (MP series optional) with the magazine disconnect. The pistol maybe stored with a round chambered and the magazine removed.

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That is not something I would ever choose to do.

Hangingrock said:

On the other hand there are as examples S&W 3rd Gen and the current (MP series optional) with the magazine disconnect. The pistol maybe stored with a round chambered and the magazine removed.

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What is the advantage to this? Now I need to insert the magazine, that is somewhere on my nightstand, into the gun. In the dark? Why?

And do we rely on a mechanical safety? This just seems awkward and unsafe to me.

Whatever is on my night stand is ready to go bang with the pull of the trigger. Groggy or not I can't imagine my finger going on the trigger without conscious thought. If I pick up a drill or anything remotely shaped liked a pistol my finger naturally goes straight down the side of the object.

With that said whatever one is comfortable with. I would agree that leaving a gun with the slide back and loaded magazine, especially if it gets moved around, is recipe for disaster with regard to that first round getting out of place causing a failure to feed.

Edit: If I were to use a 1911 style pistol it would be cocked and locked. Current HD pistols are DAO with drop safeties and such.

9mmepiphany said:

I've known folks who have done this and it made a lot of sense in their situation. They carried a magazine on their belt and loaded the gun as they picked it up.

This is the other true advantage of a pistol equipped with a magazine disconnect

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But this thread is for HD weapon. You might not have your mag belt on. And what is the other advantage to a mag disconnect safety?

You hear a noise, grab the gun, and evaluate the situation. Any chance you might forget something? Like the magazine?

If it works for you, great.

So, bump in the night, you grab your gun and your magazine, insert the magazine in the dark, then proceed?

Not for me. I do live alone, so a little different rules vs someone with a family.